Change implemented for sorcerers

[FantasyWriter]

I missed the annoucment of this change due to being without a computer for the past few weeks, but here's my two cents:

Very sad that I never got to play a true sorcerer, but I think I'm about 60% pro-change this time.
I do wish there was some allowance for a few true sorcs here and there, though.

The docs say/said that most sorcerer never learn more than a spell or two, but why not allow one or two masters of magick around at a time?

Again, I agree that this change, overall, fits better into the game, but seeing how much magick has been changed/tamed since I first started playing makes me sad.  I hope it is not a theme that will continue.  

Edit to add:
Despite no more sorcs, making the magick subguilds live goes against the bottlenecking of roles (clan/locals/concepts/etc) that I have felt over the past few years, and that lifts my frown a little.

[Harmless]

Harmless, why would you dock sorc PC's for killing people? You might as well suggest docking Templar PC's for killing people. The powerful lead through violence. Welcome to Zalanthas. In most cases, not killing PC's would be less realistic for those with crazy power than killing them.

Life is cheap and those who lead by fear must instill it if they mean for it to enable them.

The problem with sorc PCs is that they ended up having to gank too many people to realistically portray their power, and they unbalanced the world by it (or would have, if they decided to err on the side of realism instead of the side of playability). Staff are tipping the scales in favor of playability by this change.  Punishing sorc PC's for playing realistically would solve nothing.

What? Just.. no, I'm not saying karma should be docked for killing people. Ganks ALONE are not what sorcs should be about. Ganks when needed to protect yourself or send a message is fine.

[Harmless]

This is what I mean. Is this true? No it isn't; sorcerors could do a lot more with their power besides kill npcs and gank people in the desert. They can coerce people into becoming their shadow agents. Who would tell a sorceror "no" when certain death is the outcome of betrayal?

So what is this, except making trouble (indirectly instead of directly), like I said?

Must everything revolve around PCs screwing with each other?

First of all there's nothing wrong with conflict. Conflict is good. Roleplay thrives on conflict.

Secondly, what exactly makes you think sorcerers can't help people, or remain neutral, or strike out into the farthest reaches of the known and try to start a village... Or do ANYTHING at all that any other character can do that isn't "Making trouble."

Thanks for reiterating my point precisely RGS

[Kol]

I seem to remember somewhere once (possibly still on the IG helpfiles) that it stated the mages of old (or Sorcs) used to pick a path and focus on that to the exclusion of all others.

Isn't this just a return to that essentially?

While I'm disappointed I'll never be able to play my Zalanthian Gandalf, I'm looking forward to my next special app.

[FantasyWriter]

Psht. Gandalf was most certainly a War magick sub.

[Armaddict]

I thought he was just a cokehead who had a shiny staff.

[Malken]

I thought he was just a cokehead who had a shiny staff.

No, that's lordcooper

[Barsook]

I seem to remember somewhere once (possibly still on the IG helpfiles) that it stated the mages of old (or Sorcs) used to pick a path and focus on that to the exclusion of all others.

Isn't this just a return to that essentially?

It seems to be that.

[wizturbo]

You can expect that as this is further play tested, there will be tweaks for balancing needed.  Feedback is always welcome via the request tool should you see something with these new combinations that give some playability concerns.

cast 'mon un nilaz morz chran' thread

Sorry to necro this thread, but I was wondering if the staff had any insights they'd be willing to share on the success or failure of these sorcerer changes after 5 months of additional play testing?   Any players noticing anything good/bad/different?

[RogueGunslinger]

The fact that they have main-guilds now means that they can blend very easily. Thus it's no surprise that you haven't seen anything. I haven't seen anything either, but if I'm being honest I've seen and heard about like 4-5 sorcerers in 8 years of playing. Doesn't surprise me that you haven't encountered anything.

[Patuk]

I haven't really been in any position to hear about sorcery lately, but OTOH I did use to hear about some very occasionally. Also heard of a bender case a little while back, so there is that.

[wizturbo]

I haven't really been in any position to hear about sorcery lately, but OTOH I did use to hear about some very occasionally. Also heard of a bender case a little while back, so there is that.

Most of us haven't been in a position to hear about it, I'd like to hear from the staff unless there's a player whose had an experience with the changes and wanted to comment on their opinions.

[MeTekillot]

Sorcery hasn't disappeared from the game. True sorcery has simply disappeared from the grasp of the players. There are still real sorcerers running around, they just can't be played by players.

[BadSkeelz]

They're out there. I haven't heard of someone setting up a Tokwarts Academy for Young Magickers since the change went in, but sorcerers are still out there.

[wizturbo]

Perhaps the way I worded my original post has derailed this.  My personal observations on the sorcery changes are meaningless, as I'm limited to only seeing what my character experiences.  I'm fully aware sorcery exists in the game as a codedly available, playable class.  I'm also aware that the changes to sorcery make sorcerers more capable of blending in.  That wasn't the point of my necro of this thread.

The question I necro'd this thread to ask is:  How is this working out?  Staff, are you happy with these changes?  Do players of the new classes seem to be happy as well?



*I've gone back and edited out the superfluous portions of my previous posts to hopefully refocus the question.

[Barsook]

Maybe ask in Ask the Staff instead?

[Rathustra]

The number of players who can play sorcerers is very, very small - which has always been the case. These players also tend to play any other sort of character in between their stabs at playing sorcerers. It's basically the case that we are waiting for comprehensive feedback but haven't received any complaints (for actual sorcerer players) yet.

[Lizzie]

The number of players who can play sorcerers is very, very small - which has always been the case. These players also tend to play any other sort of character in between their stabs at playing sorcerers. It's basically the case that we are waiting for comprehensive feedback but haven't received any complaints (for actual sorcerer players) yet.

Perhaps a different perspective on the same question:

Have you noticed an increase, decrease, or no change on the number of applications for sorcerer roles? Has the ratio of "players who fit the criteria of "qualified to app" to actual apps - shown any significant change?

If, over any given 5-month period, there are usually around 6 special apps for sorc roles that actually have the karma to request it - and if during this period after the change there are now only 2 - or 10 - then wouldn't that indicate at least an initial display of satisfaction? (edited to clarify - apps, not necessarily approved and actively played. I'm asking about the interest in even applying for these roles).

Satisfaction with the concept of the new system - and then we can look at the satisfaction rate with those who actually have played those roles.

Does my question make sense?  I had only a passing interest in playing a sorc role, prior to the change. I had a very high level of interest in interacting with other sorcs, prior to the change. Now - no interest in playing one, and more of a curiosity, rather than an interest, in playing -with- the current incarnations.

But I'm one of those anomalies of the GDB who readily admits to totally grokking magicks in Armageddon.

[Harmless]

i would guess that 5 months is a very short amount of time to look for this kind of feedback, given that i bet most players with sorceror karma play long-lived PCs, they may still be on the same PC they were on when the change went through. Maybe asking again in a year would work?

[Nyr]

Perhaps a different perspective on the same question:

Have you noticed an increase, decrease, or no change on the number of applications for sorcerer roles? Has the ratio of "players who fit the criteria of "qualified to app" to actual apps - shown any significant change?

There has been a very slight increase (or significant, depending on how one reviews it--sorcerers are few and far between anyway, so any increase would be significant).  A look at those that had sorcerer roles in 2014 vs those that have played the new sorcerer subguilds since the change in September/up until today shows that there are more roles in the latter category.

[Lizzie]

Perhaps a different perspective on the same question:

Have you noticed an increase, decrease, or no change on the number of applications for sorcerer roles? Has the ratio of "players who fit the criteria of "qualified to app" to actual apps - shown any significant change?

There has been a very slight increase (or significant, depending on how one reviews it--sorcerers are few and far between anyway, so any increase would be significant).  A look at those that had sorcerer roles in 2014 vs those that have played the new sorcerer subguilds since the change in September/up until today shows that there are more roles in the latter category.

This seems to be a fairly positive sign - that more people who -can- apply for these roles, actually -are- applying for them now than before. Post-approval satisfaction will be important of course, but just knowing that more people are trying, means the fact that the change occurred at all, was not a failure.

[wizturbo]

Thanks for the response, exactly what i was wondering.

[Riev]

If the intervention has changed numbers of apps... awesome. But unless the p-value is less than at least .05 I dont think it can be significant.

[Patuk]

If we were to apply Bayesian statistics to everything in Arm, I'm sure we could make it the world's top gaming experience in no time.

[i love toilets]

I'm gonna miss full fledged abominations that can kill me in five different ways but the new standard is even scarier, and more realistic I feel. I can't imagine some commoner doing things on their own would really figure out much magic by themselves, which I think is the standard background for a sorcerer in the game, either that or have a teacher with that background.