Gemmed magickers, society, and YOU!

[Red Ranger]

Alrighty, after all the talk in the RAT thread about gemmers in 'Nak, I'll bite.

What are your thoughts on gemmers in 'Nak, esteemed GDB Commenter? Are they fine as is? Too overpowered? Too gimped and fatally broken as a PC role?

I personally think that the gemmed mage role is better now than it used to be some years ago, both when they were openly hired by most any House whether noble or merchant, or later in the "X-men days." That said, I also think that a "problem" with how PC gemmed mages are currently treated and act is that most players seemingly aren't quite comfortable with where the gemmers fit in. Are gemmers universally reviled, or are they good traveling companions like the helpfiles might suggest? Do we hate gemmers, or is it totally cool to accept their money that they make from finger wiggling?

It's a difficult line to walk!

I personally think one solution would be to emphasize the indentured nature of gemmer existence by enforcing either an IC law or an IC social norm where normal people don't do magicky or commercial business with gemmed mages without getting permission from a representative of the Powers That Be, in this case from templars or Oashi nobles. That way, the very act of doing business with a mage reinforces how out of the ordinary it is. Under this regime, the X-men still get to interact with nonmutants, but first they need permission from the Department of Homeland Security, and Storm has to work for the Government to keep the weather nice for Congressional golf outings while Colossus is put to work as a cheap Government forklift.

[TheWanderer]

My thoughts on the GEMMED are as follows:

They're very attractive, and it's a shame I usually can't mudsex them as a mundane. We should come together as a community and do something about that.

I believe every single problem listed for these abominations in the RAT thread can be solved by a Zalanthian Hogwarts -- staff, I've got the room descriptions ready to go.

Oh, and, in closing, it's not the job of the gemmed to get up from the bar, newbs - yeah, that's right. I did it. I said it. 'Z' formation finger snap an' roll with it, chumps. It's the job of the mundanes to shower hate and fear, and it's the job of the gemmed to deal with being a social outcast and having limited opportunities to roleplay because of the role they chose.

It's totally fine if a gemmed desperately wants to be friends with his/her loved ones and thought of as another of the pack AGAIN (they ain't chose dat life, dat life chose dem), but it's your job to say, "No."

Honestly, I think the role's fine. If it's not for you, don't play it. Rogue gets caught? Store.
----

nah, but, bruh, i wouldnt be caught dead playin' a gemmed. im gonna stick to my overly eccentric warriors with mental disorders. thank you and good day.

[BleakOne]

Gemmed seem to work fine, although I've only played one.

I don't think there needs to be anything done to make them more isolated, since they're pretty damn isolated as is. Lots of people complain about the gemmed working together, but it's part of the reason they are gemmed in the first place. They add fear and power to the Templarate who are already pretty damn scary.

Most people hate and/or fear magickers ICly, and they should. The Templarate and Oash use them for their own ends despite this, and some desperate people might hire them too.

From my admittedly limited perspective, I think they're fine as is.

[long live miley cyrus]

To me they're fun the way that Stormers with crew responsibilities are fun--- you trade in lots of casual tavern talk for the rare and glorious roleplaying moments, seeing things that byn warrior/forgot my subguild #463573 two years in the byn will have to wait for an HRPT to see, and compared to them you get this a couple of times a month once the ball gets rolling and that's what you particularly wanted. Also: mountains of waiting. I think some of what it is is that players, by the time they start playing witches, they -know- they're going to be doing lots of waiting with a mundane in Storm/non-kuraci Luir's while they don't know what's in store for them as a witch until they actually try. The mundane in Storm takes advantage of this week's Steam sale, or rents some movies with the window of the client open on the side; I know I didn't do this with my first two witches and that that was part of the problem.

I don't see any problem with how people deal with witches or how witches deal with themselves or other witches apart from obvious or subtle newbie mistakes. Pretty good, guys. I however haven't heard of a gicker raider (i.e. letting their victim survive to spread the tale) in like a thousand years. Tsk tsk. Where's my horrifying death drowning in flames made of water that are also snakes? You know, the ones that sound like my mother calling for help?

I think gickers should be even -more- alienated as an idea in Tuluk. To me, it just seems right now like the bar is lowered slightly because everyone without exception is in the allanaki "doesn't tolerate gicker interaction" category, with some further down, but in a way that can still be found outside of tuluk.

My solution: gickers should be feared to the point where association with a known gicker can get an unprotected person disappeared, and more than that, like trade, should get someone disappeared and their friends under suspicion. These don't put too many new people in inadvertent danger of losing their characters (which is going to happen to pcs one way or the other) and will make gickers a more real danger. We could always use more fear in Tuluk!

Since pc gickers aren't really going to try to play there that much I think, this isn't going to affect gicker playability. In fact, I'd love to be a victim of this next time I play a gicker associater in Tuluk. Some fringe benefits are: people don't tell each other about strange dreams or strange things they've seen, keeping them bottled up in thinks and feels out of fear, or people tell their trusted ones who then tell the templarate for the social climbing or money. I know there's problems with this idea but I'd like to see such massive under-the-water paranoia about it that has eclipsed anything seen before, and see if that atmosphere is worth keeping.

[HavokBlue]

Associating with magickers as a Tuluki citizen probably will get you disappeared.

My complaints about Gemmed roles stems from the fact that I'm not a fan of how they're often treated as a magical toolbox for the Templarate and it's kind of just assumed that if you are a Gemmer you are an auxiliary to any operations the Templarate and the Arm perform, and that as a result of Oash being the only actual employment option for the Gemmed, your only other choice is to submit and be part of the magical toolbox. I feel like there are a lot of npc/vnpc gemmers in roles that PCs can't easily pursue ICly without eliciting a 'what the fuck are you doing son' reaction from other PCs in game. What I mean by this is if you are playing a Gemmed mage, it's kind of expected of you by all the other PCs that your character's job is 'mage' and not 'tailor who turned out to shit fire' or 'bard/performer with the unfortunate ability to cause sandstorms'.

Obviously some people enjoy that or think that's okay. I'm not big on it, and as a result I avoid playing gemmed PCs.

[Kismetic]

In reply to the last post, Arm is a very "What have you done for me lately" game, especially for a role like a templar.

I tend to agree with a previous statement that the correct portrayal of the role relies more on reactions to your presence more than what you do, but with my one brief, magicker role, I treated myself like an outcast, shied away from the bar, and engaged in trivial self-loathing even around other gemmed.  Everyone can pitch in.

[lordcooper]

magical toolbox for the Templarate

Isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be?  The Templars keep them around because they're useful and the commoners leave them be because they fear both the gickers and the Templars.  Gemmed are slaves in all but name.

[HavokBlue]

magical toolbox for the Templarate

Isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be?  The Templars keep them around because they're useful and the commoners leave them be because they fear both the gickers and the Templars.  Gemmed are slaves in all but name.

it's pretty jarring to get yelled at by a templar because you've been playing your magicker for a whole week and haven't branched anything

[long live miley cyrus]

magical toolbox for the Templarate

Isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be?  The Templars keep them around because they're useful and the commoners leave them be because they fear both the gickers and the Templars.  Gemmed are slaves in all but name.

it's pretty jarring to get yelled at by a templar because you've been playing your magicker for a whole week and haven't branched anything

The Templar should have known better than to expect you to branch, much less within a time period that is shorter than it takes to create a human life.

It would be kind of nice to have an extra clan in Allanak for them, particularly a combat one (already have a good excuse for the templars to want this, I'm willing to bet lots of gickers have died to simply not being able to defend themselves in combat long enough to get saved) with, you know, some other original purpose to exist like House Oash. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that gickers don't combat practice in House Oash. It'd have to be a gemmed quarter clan, but that's perfect. Something to actually keep gemmed in the quarter. Something less fancy and closer to the grit of subsistence than House Oash, probably couldn't get as low class as the Byn because magical toolboxes so many of them, and -nonhumans could join,- actually allowing non-crafting elf gickers to be able to sustain themselves inside the walls. I imagine a smart elf gicker could, certainly. But, seriously? For someone like me, the idea of combining a special app elf gicker with a burglarizing, theft or combat subguild sounds wasteful and OOCly suicidal. This all in mind with the idea that most elf players will try to stay inside the walls if they can help it.

[Ziel]

I like gemmed.  I've played a lot of them.  Their internal struggles with what they are and how others react to them can be a lot of fun, and the fun exponentially rises when you've got a decent number of other gemmed PCs to interact with. But their place in society?  Eh, I think that could use a little work.

The "X-Men days" had a lot of great moments, I think.  You could play a gemmer and actually get interaction with others and have things to do for more than a small number of people, maybe do a little unofficial work for other clans.  The hate/fear was still there with the good ones, but there was still begrudged cooperation going on.

Things did get out of hand though, with gemmed expecting to be treated like normal people and normal people actually treating them like *GASP* peers.

After the end of the world plots dried up, I feel like things went from one extreme to the other.  The "gemmed should be isolated" mentality never held much water with me, because that mage is making the choice (or having the choice made for them) to be open about their nature and try to find a place in society.  A rogue mage should be isolated.  A gemmer should be able to have something more, even if no one is particularly happy to give it to them.

Most of the available opportunties are limited to grebbing or Oash.  Templars will make use of them, sure, but those chances are few and far between depending on which element you pick.  Some can offer their services and be bombarded with opportunity, while the ones who picked wrong might have to wait for months.

I've seen the idea for a gemmed tavern get thrown around a lot, and the reasoning not to make one seems to boil down to - but that would make gemmed have fewer reasons to go out into the other parts of the city and interact with people.  Well... the mundane population is already doing a fine job of not giving gemmed a reason to be around others, unless they want to ask about the weather and be told, at best, to fuck off.

I never got to play in Tor, but I remember how back in the day they would be willing to hire on a small number of war mages to complement their mundane soldiers.  I've been wishing to see something like that again.  Find roles in other clans that can make use of gemmed, and make use of them to support mundanes rather than replace them entirely.

Or go in the other direction and turn the gemmed quarter into a self-sustained community.  Build up the walls more, make it harder for outsiders to get in and the gemmed to get out.  Let gemmed have their own separate culture, have means of survival that don't require going out into the normal parts of the city, and place shops with the things they'd need to live.  The Circle of Magi from Dragon Age comes to mind.

Either way, I'd like to see something change.  Because right now, the game world doesn't seem to know what it wants to do with gemmed.  They could be removed entirely and it wouldn't shake up the status quo any.

[Kol]

Can't take my Gemmed away, tried already, Tek said no.


Having played a few Gemmed, I'd say they're like any other clan/group in the game, they have high points and low points, pros and cons. Like Delves, they're isolated, but not to the extreme delve clans are, there's plenty of opportunity to create and invest in your own plots, and at times, the gemmed community can be really hopping.

Elementalist Culture

(Magick Roleplay)

The Elementalist Temples in Allanak were built by the city as a way to deal with the elementalist population of Allanak. They were not built by the elementalists, or for the elementalists, or to attract elementalists to the city (although this has been an undesirable side effect).

By building the temples the city has created a place where elementalists can go and cast safely. This is in the belief that they're going to cast no matter what you do, so it might as well be somewhere safe, where you can keep an eye on them -- not to mention removed from the rest of the city into a quarter all their own.

The mentality of living in a city-state is that this is where you were born, this is where you will die, and spending your life anywhere else is almost unthinkable. Doubly so for elementalists, many of whom have probably never been away from the city far enough to lose sight of the gates. Life outside of the city, for them, is an almost unthinkably dangerous and barbaric fate.

The Elementalists of Allanak:

Just because an elementalist in Allanak is treated poorly does not mean they have an overwhelming desire to leave the city. Even slaves in a city-state setting will not leave the city-state when given the opportunity, instead fleeing to the slums or possibly trying to pose as an artisan if they have the skills to do so.

One reason for doing this is a lack of knowledge on the conditions of life outside of the city walls. There are gaj, anakore, gith, and worse out in the desert, and what do they know of such things? The land is covered with people that don't even speak a civilized language like sirihish, how would they communicate with them? And what about good wine, music, and comfortable clothing? There are people who will endure the prejudice of a city-state in return for having access to the lifestyle and culture it makes available to them.

Another reason is the exact opposite, knowing exactly what life is like outside of the city walls. Possibly they've traveled, or are from another land, or have gone shadow walking if they're a drovian. They have seen life outside of the city state and don't care for the lawless nature of that life. Within the city-state at least the rules are known, and if observed with a great deal of humility, one can expect to live by them.

There are also undoubtably elementalists who are patriots of the city-state. For whatever reason they hold little or no animosity towards the social structure that brands them as nearly sub-human, and actually use their powers to aid it. These people might be somewhat rare, but they do exist and you will find them in any group of persecuted people.

Elementalists in General:

A thought to keep in mind when working with elementalists is that they're not priests. Or philosophers. Or druids. Or seers. Or Wizards. They do not get their powers by prayer, worship, communing with a greater power, or studying ancient texts. Many of them make no effort whatsoever to nurture their power and never sought it out to begin with. They were born this way and that's that. Some elementalists doubtless view their powers as a curse, but have taken up the life of an elementalist because there's no escaping what they are.

Despite their powers elementalists are mortal, and have the same motivations as others of their race. A dwarven Whiran has a focus like any other dwarf, a Suk-Krathi elf is still sly, and a gypsy Vivaduan still tries to steal babies when she thinks no one is looking. These things don't change just because they can use magick. There is no philosophical bent that comes along with, or is a requirement of, having access to the elemental planes.

A Whiran may have no greater aspiration than to get drunk as often as possible, and only keeps up attendance at his temple because it gives him a community to rely on when times are hard. There are slackers, moochers, and freeloaders in every society, even one made up of elementalists, and they rarely stick around when times get hard.

I think the docs are pretty clear on this point, IMO. The Gemmed population in Allanak is to be accepted, if grudgingly. I can see a Northerner, or tribal from Luirs considering witches might get their powers from fucking animals and eating baby flesh, or whatever, but I'd assume the general 'Nakki, if they're not too retarded, would understand it's something they're born with, they're not defilers, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Sure, treat them with distrust, after all, they use powers. Powers you'll never be able to understand, I mean, c'mon, how does that water witch manage to pull that shit from nowhere? You may think they can curse you, you may even think that they're disgusting for indulging in such activity. However, I think the quarter in 'Nak's been there long enough, and has more than enough NPC's and VNPC's that go to and from the quarter (or should if you envision it right) that the general populace will understand that they have a place in society, around the level of breeds and elves, and serve a purpose.

Besides, Tek tolerates them, as do his Templars, who the fuck are you to question their judgement?

If a Gemmed strolls up to a bar and takes a seat beside you, move, or make him move. These are people who want interaction, probably the right kind, fear, mistrust, and a little being told their kind shouldn't be drinking with your kind, probably. These are players who've managed to show they at least have an inkling of how Magic works and is viewed in Zalanthas, and expect to be treated so, why else would they play a gemmed mage?

Instead of trying to improve or remove the gemmed's place in the game world, I'd like to see more people taking note of the docs, and thinking about it. Witches will happen anyway, better the witch you know, than the witch you don't.


I think that makes sense.

[Lizzie]

By the same token, Kol -

Sometimes I'd see a new player's PC, or someone who just isn't "getting it" show up and sit at the bar where there's a mage, and the person looks at them - obviously able to see the gem - and just starts treating the mage like any random stranger at the bar.

As someone who plays a gemmed mage on occasion, I find _that_ to be jarring. How do I respond to it? Well it depends. If I think it's truly a new player, and not just someone who's played before and -should- know better but has chosen not to..

then I might RP out confusion as to why they're treating my character as a normal person. I might ask them outright - and include my gem in an emote somehow to emphasize that I'm a gemmed mage and that should mean _something_ to them, for better or worse.

Or, if my character is a mean nasty ornery type, I might - again - indicate the gem somehow for emphasis - and tell them not to come so close because I'm in a bad mood and their dick might fall off.

If it's someone who -should- know better, but has chosen not to, I might do the same - but a little more forceful. And maybe treat that gem-lover like a pariah. I mean what sane mundane person would go out of their way to be nice to a gemmer they've never met before?

If my character has a history of interaction with a mundane, then there's plenty of opportunity for a certain amount of relaxation in the relationship, even if it's just a mutual tolerance. But when mundane and mage encounter each other for the very first time, there shouldn't be any room for that relaxation. There should be *some* amount of stress involved. And if there isn't, then whoever is NOT stressing, should be called out on it, in one way or another.

[Eyeball]

Sometimes I'd see ... someone who just isn't "getting it" show up and sit at the bar where there's a mage, and the person looks at them - obviously able to see the gem - and just starts treating the mage like any random stranger at the bar.

Maybe that person is a rogue mage, and so doesn't react to magick with the same degree of fear and hate. Cause for suspicion but not necessarily bad roleplay.

[Patuk]

I want to clear one thing up in here.

Gemmers are not glorified Templar slaves. Commoners are glorified slaves.

If a templar tells a commoner to do something, he had better do so ASAP. Gemmed are no exception to this.

Having to obey the templarate isn't what makes gemmers special, as that applies to everyone. What makes gemmers special is the templarate actually wanting to use them.

[Cutthroat]

I think the OP's idea is something that already happens - just that it's done in back-rooms between templars and nobles/commoners who matter. I'm not sure Allanaki culture and attitudes would support something like an official license/contract Tuluki shadow artist-like system, but modified for the gemmed. On the one hand, templars like money, but on the other hand, they like the concentration of power that is provided by their absolute control of the gemmed. (And I would assume that power wins out.)

Still though, I like the thought of giving isolated roles more to do without having to ICly break the rules. I'm just not sure what to give gemmed, since they are easily the least-isolated isolated role. They can still interact with people, even if they are not trusted. They will always have one or more PC bosses to give them tasks to work on. The only thing I would advocate for gemmed is more opportunities for clanned employment besides Oash, because sometimes Oash fills up, and someone who really wants to be in a clan suddenly can't. Having a gemmed war-mage unit of the AoD makes a lot of sense to me, personally.

As for the overall wording of the descriptions of roles, I think it's long past time to strip phrases like "Stone mages make for great traveling companions" and such from the docs. I think it would be exceptional (not necessarily incorrect, but unusual) for an Allanaki commoner to hire a gemmed mage in this manner - these attitudes seem to apply to tribes with a more relaxed view of mages. To compensate, build up that Elementalist Culture documentation the documentation of other clans and groups. Define the "usual" role and perception of magickers individually for various areas of the world, and clans and tribes. Give players a clearly defined range of attitudes for their characters to start with about magick based on their origins and affiliations and let players develop their attitudes over time as they play.

[James de Monet]

Zai, there kind of is a Gemmed tavern.

I really like Red Ranger's idea, and it seems to fit Allanak thematically to me, but I think the problem is execution. There aren't Templars around all the time, which would mean anytime one wasn't around, no Gemmed and mundane could really get much done. And even when they are around, they're busy a lot.

Patuk has a point about everyone being beneath the Templarate's thumb, but there are things that distinguish the relationship between Gemmed and Templars and commoners and Templars. I don't want to get too IC here, but the temples are one obvious aspect of this. The Templarate provides a place for Gemmed to live. That in itself is a pretty big difference, and might be suggestive of some other aspects of the dynamic there.

Kol, the reasoning that 'Templars accept Gemmed so you should too' is perfectly logical, but think about this - have you ever seen a Templar get mad at a commoner for being mean to a Gemmed? Even if you have, how often have you seen it versus a Templar getting mad at someone for being mean to any of their other servants, like soldiers? There might be a reason for the difference.

[ShaLeah]

I'd prefer gemmed to be segregated to their quarter and be rarely seen in the common populace. Give them their own watering hole in their neck of the woods.

Tolerated, not accepted, because:

Besides, Tek tolerates them, as do his Templars, who the fuck are you to question their judgement?

Trusted? Heh. No. If they were trusted they wouldn't be wearing those lovely collars that keep them in check.

[James de Monet]

Also, I've played a gemmed whose primary role was not "gemmed". This character had another, mercantile profession. And it was very interesting to play, because while people were willing to use this PC's services, they were still disdainful on a personal level and had no respect for the level of skill exhibited in the work, because the artisan was a magicker. It was pretty cool.

[Red Ranger]

I really like Red Ranger's idea, and it seems to fit Allanak thematically to me, but I think the problem is execution. There aren't Templars around all the time, which would mean anytime one wasn't around, no Gemmed and mundane could really get much done. And even when they are around, they're busy a lot.

I see your concern that that requiring templarate approval of official gemmed-mundane transactions could decrease interaction for gemmer PCs, but I actually think it would INCREASE the interaction. Right now there IS some interaction between the two but to me it seems fitful and it often defaults to one extreme or the other: murderous rage over a gemmer setting foot in the Gaj vs blithe acceptance, "Hey he may be a walking tac nuke with leprosy but I'll happily outfit him with the finest gear marked with my GMH sigil 'cause his money is good here!" I think that my proposed change will increase interaction because it'll OOC'ly show players an obvious way to acknowledge that gemmers are different and dangerous while still interacting with them in a way other than the two extremes above.

Essentially, I think that the effect will be similar to the Freakonomics anecdote about parents picking up their kids late from daycares in Israel.

Operationally, I think it could play out that the mundanes wanting to hire gemmers to do Magicky Thing X would seek out a templar or Oashi noble for written permission to hire a mage to do X. Alternatively, the gemmer could seek out the templar for written permission to take jobs doing Y. It could be flexible depending on all the personalities involved. Of course, there would be nothing stopping mundanes and gemmers from carrying out transactions without approval... but if they're caught there would be consequences.

[James de Monet]

Okay, do you think you could get the best of both worlds then by introducing a gemmed business license?

It would be an analogue to the current merchant's token, where one person in every transaction would have to have one. Mundanes might not want one themselves, because it would make then look like a wiggler lover, but a gemmed with one would be shown to be "safe" for commoners to do business with (like a dog with a 'pet me, I'm friendly' sign).

It would give Templars a stream of revenue, but also give them another way to control the gemmed, because now they could threaten to take their license away.



Edited to add: But the most important part is, it wouldn't hinder real-time interactions. You wouldn't need a Templar present to set up a deal if someone already had a license.

[HavokBlue]

That's kind of a neat idea and it doesn't really require any work on the part of staff. Just an enterprising Templar PC.

[long live miley cyrus]

It can be pretty damn hard as a newly gemmed merchant to keep doing business in that line of work. I like that idea.

[Red Ranger]

Okay, do you think you could get the best of both worlds then by introducing a gemmed business license?

It would be an analogue to the current merchant's token, where one person in every transaction would have to have one. Mundanes might not want one themselves, because it would make then look like a wiggler lover, but a gemmed with one would be shown to be "safe" for commoners to do business with (like a dog with a 'pet me, I'm friendly' sign).

It would give Templars a stream of revenue, but also give them another way to control the gemmed, because now they could threaten to take their license away.

Edited to add: But the most important part is, it wouldn't hinder real-time interactions. You wouldn't need a Templar present to set up a deal if someone already had a license.

Well, what I had in mind is that templars would hand out written permissions on a scroll, and each scroll would include the unique conditions of the permission.

So if Salarri Sam wants to hire Krathi Karl to provide fiery backup for a hunting mission, then Salarri Sam can go to Lord Templar Hardnose and get a scroll that says, "Salarri Sam hereby has my sanction to hire one (1) mage for their expedition to hunt mutant turnips to be completed by Feb 30, 2088. Signed, L.T. H.Nose."

Alternatively, maybe Krathi Karl is favored by Lord Templar Hardnose and he's already given Krathi Karl a scroll that says, "Krathi Karl henceforth has my explicit sanction to take contracts from any and all Allanaki citizens to provide his fiery magicks outside of the city's walls, up to and including conjuring his Flaming Pizza Bites. Signed, L.T. H.Nose." So in that case Salarri Sam would just need to ask Krathi Karl to help with the hunt, and Krathi Karl could help without having to gain another specific approval.

[Dresan]

Right now there are individuals who interact with gemmed for whatever reason. Most of them are very private about it in both interaction and dealings with them.  Basically there are people that sometimes hire a mage, especially when there are no mundanes to do the job that requires to be done or the job is rather insane for anything short of a small army of mundanes. I think that all perfectly fine. For the most part gemmers at the tavern are ignored and that's about right as well. Its a more isolated role in terms of interaction. And it should remain so, otherwise, there would be little to no draw backs in playing a mage.

That said, mages are people first, yes they should be considered monsters, but my mage was just a regular person before he sudden manifested. My gemmer had the same urges any normal person would have, just that he was cursed with power. He did make friends, with the scum of society, just to give an example one was a rinthi breed. Many of the people he hung out with were breed or mutants, they were outcasts in their own way.

In regards to the ideas here though I wouldn't mind seeing large merchant houses or organization dealing with oash or templars and hiring mage services as support for whatever they are doing from time to time. Maybe under the table stuff too. The mage would need to know their place, they are just there to do a job, not make friends or interact too deeply with the heroes of the plot, the mundanes. There is a big difference between having a mage do some work for you, and being friends and chummy with one. I don't want to see someone inviting them to sit with them at a tavern, but taking them along on a really dangerous mission sounds okay to me.

[Lizzie]

I actually liked the x-men days of mages, especially the rogue mages, when every tribal elf was either a mage or in league with one. I didn't play one at the time, but was pretty involved in plotlines that were magick-heavy. It put the "awe" in awesome, for me. I was truly in awe of the effects, even the cantrips - the coded abilities, everything. I still am, and I've played several mages since then.

While I appreciate the need to -not- have a Allanaki Mage Council Part Deux, I think the game could benefit from having some kind of clan, or offshoot of a clan, for mages. Perhaps something like what the Atrium was intended to do with spies and assassins Aides and Concubines. In that way, more veteran players of mages, while playing those mages, could teach folks new to the magick system, or new to playing mages in Allanak, or just anyone who wants to roleplay their character being new to their situation, in a way that's officially sanctioned by the Templarate.

Then, once a member of this group "gets it," they might be pre-qualified to be clanned by any official clan that hires them, or makes use of them. So Oash would have mages who already have the basics of magick down pat, even if they haven't branched anything yet. Tor could hire their war mages again (if Tor was ever reopened). The Byn could even have a trusted, mage-school-approved rukkian on call for scouting expeditions, and individual PCs who -might- be willing to risk perma-tainting, get their healing done (for a small fee) by the local Vivaduan.

I think a general stigma against mages is a good thing and encourage it. Unfortunately, the concept of fantasy magick is just SO damned attractive, that some new players might not really understand the significance of the stigma, and set in-game prejudices aside and intentionally allow their PCs to openly court them or be attracted to them or try to be especially friendly to them.

This is when it really IS up to the player of the mage, to help steer them in the right direction. Even if your character is an angsty breed who just wants to be loved and is being approached by the opportunity for love. You're a breed. You can RP it as suspicion instead and really drive home to that player that it's a bad idea to flirt with, snuggle up to, seek out publically, express personal emotional attachment to, or otherwise show attraction to a mage - without the corresponding disgust and self-loathing that *should* go along with it.

The "you know, you'd be fine-looking, if it weren't for that gem around your neck" should be the closest any mage should get to a "relationship" with a mundane. If the mundane's player doesn't play along from the start, then the player of the mage should set the example in some IC way.

I think that might be some of what some of you have seen in places like the Gaj. When someone who seems fairly new, or even just ICly ignorant, starts chatting up a mage and ignores the fact that there's a gem around their neck - or doesn't understand what it MEANS..

and the gemmer starts reminding them, very blatantly, that if they get too close their dick might fall off.

That's not necessarily a threat that you need to call the Arm over. It might just be the player of a mage, who is observing someone really rejecting the docs that state plainly that mundanes SHOULD have some kind of problem with mages and not be so blatantly friendly with a mage they've never met before.

Once mage and mundane have an actual history, then sure - be friendly (in a "you'd be great if it weren't for the fact that you're a walking time-bomb" kind of way) and freak out the rest of the folks in the bar about it. But until you've established that history, your character -should- be hesitant at best - and avoid or even insult at worst.

The mage should expect to be avoided or insulted, and SHOULD wonder WTF is wrong with the mundane they've never met who is trying to chat them up as if they didn't notice that gem.

On the other hand, anyone who would *openly* insult a mage, in public, should expect their dick to fall off some time in the near future. It goes both ways