Clans: will take anything with a heartbeat?

[Desertman]

The leader makes the clan.

If you are playing an active compelling leader that people find interesting you will have people knocking down your door to join your clan.

You will be able to be as picky as you want.

Nobody joins a clan because they "have to", they join clans because they want to. Nobody joins a clan for "the pay", and nobody joins a clan because they like following the rules and being restricted.

The only reason people join clans in my experience is to have interaction with a group of people they want to interact with.

The key component to that is the leadership currently running the show. If the leadership isn't interesting and doesn't draw people in, there is only one place to look.

At least I find this to be the case when I join clans. I have joined clans I generally do not "like" as far as the rules and restrictions etc...but, the leadership was interesting, compelling, and fun to be around. So, I joined and had a great time, DESPITE the clan its self.

Leaders make clans.

[ShaLeah]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

[Reiloth]

I think that's true sometimes. When good leaders are in clans, or I see them in public and enjoy their RP/PC, I find myself more inclined to join that clan, as opposed to 'Clan where I never see the Leader online, or never see the minions online, or when I do, they are boring'.

But much of the time, I do play PCs who join clans for various personal reasons, rather than anyone who is in the clan/currently running it. I tend to make my own fun, if i'm playing a minion, rather than relying on the leader, because I know what it's like to be the leader who feels relied upon for fun like a vending machine.

I think Leaders make the clans, even in the T'zai Byn, for the most part. When there is a stellar Sergeant, people are clamoring to be in the Byn, or make PCs who join the Byn because they had fun observing that Sergeant or playing around that Sergeant. When there is a crummy Sergeant in the Byn, that 'wow' factor happens less.

[Desertman]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag  )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

[Malken]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

Poopsmithing makes the Byn.

[ShaLeah]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag  )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

[Desertman]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag   )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I will agree to disagree with you. We apparently haven't had the same experiences, which is fine.

(Except the being able to count the interesting ones on two hands part. I will agree with that, I can think of a handful, less than ten, that I found truly interesting.)

[ShaLeah]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag   )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I will agree to disagree with you. We apparently haven't had the same experiences, which is fine.

(Except the being able to count the interesting ones on two hands part. I will agree with that, I can think of a handful, less than ten, that I found truly interesting.)

Can we agree that the Byn is the one clan exception? It doesn't fall into the normal clan specs. They really do take anyone. Even ... yeah... THOSE.

[Desertman]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag   )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I will agree to disagree with you. We apparently haven't had the same experiences, which is fine.

(Except the being able to count the interesting ones on two hands part. I will agree with that, I can think of a handful, less than ten, that I found truly interesting.)

Can we agree that the Byn is the one clan exception? It doesn't fall into the normal clan specs. They really do take anyone. Even ... yeah... THOSE.

Kurac.

[ShaLeah]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag   )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I will agree to disagree with you. We apparently haven't had the same experiences, which is fine.

(Except the being able to count the interesting ones on two hands part. I will agree with that, I can think of a handful, less than ten, that I found truly interesting.)

Can we agree that the Byn is the one clan exception? It doesn't fall into the normal clan specs. They really do take anyone. Even ... yeah... THOSE.

Kurac.

Point taken. TWO trash hoarding clans.

* ShaLeah gags.

[Barzalene]

Let me point out-when I take Newbies it's not to be nice. Is to assure myself they will be indoctrinated properly.

[Desertman]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag   )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I will agree to disagree with you. We apparently haven't had the same experiences, which is fine.

(Except the being able to count the interesting ones on two hands part. I will agree with that, I can think of a handful, less than ten, that I found truly interesting.)

Can we agree that the Byn is the one clan exception? It doesn't fall into the normal clan specs. They really do take anyone. Even ... yeah... THOSE.

Kurac.

Point taken. TWO trash hoarding clans.

* ShaLeah gags.

Hehe, I will agree with you that having a LARGER variety of people to choose from does increase your chances of getting players to join you. It does not increase your chance of getting vets to join you, and in terms of having a "successful" clan, having vets in your wings is what determines that success. (At least in my opinion. Fifty newbies do not impress me, and if that is all a leader has, they haven't built a clan I am interested in interacting with.)

Other clans not taking elves, half-elves, and rinthers for example of course mathematically limits those clans or decreases their opportunities for the first few RL months that new leader is leading.

After the first few RL months though, if you are compelling and interesting, people have started making characters just to join your clan and be with your leader.

If after a few RL months that leader is still having trouble getting followers...it's not the clan.

I've joined clans I hate just to be with leaders I found interesting. The Legion for example, absolutely not my cup of tea. Joined it twice just for the leaders. Epic fun both times.

[Barsook]

I have done that once or twice also.

[Zoltan]

The Byn doesn't necessarily take everyone with 300 'sid. I've denied some PCs entry to the Byn before, when they clearly demonstrated that they would be more trouble than they're worth. It's a True Fact.

I'm not sure what the metric is for a "successful" clan, but it's true that a clan tends to be more interesting when it's full of interesting characters. Newb or vet doesn't matter. Leaders tend to get a lot of focus, but I've seen clans propelled mostly by the strength of the "supporting cast" many a time.

I've never really scoped out a clan heavily before joining them before. My characters tend to go with what usually seems to be a good deal.  The only OOC consideration I tend to put into it is playtimes-related. If I never see clannies/leaders around when I usually play, that weighs into my join or no-join judgment. I'm one of those seemingly-rare players who likes to have a schedule and rules imposed on their characters. Keeps the clan cohesive and provides a more "real" feel for me.

I do think that there is some unreal pressure on leaders at times to really sweeten their recruitment spiel beyond good taste or good sense. It's rough when you need warm bodies to accomplish some things, but they're all holding out for some snowflake of a deal or whatever. I don't recommend caving to that sort of pressure. Easy for me to say when I'm not in one of those roles, of course. Some players won't go for a clan for any reason unless its very nature is bent to their whims, which is fine. Let them keep to the indie sphere, they would be happier there anyway.

[IntuitiveApathy]

Leaders make clans.

Unless you're the Byn.

I've played in and seen The Byn when it was completely dead due to a lack of compelling leadership. To the tune of me being the only PC I could find to interact with for two or three RL weeks until new leadership was brought in.

(One of these times I was promoted from Runner to Sergeant to fix said issue. /brag  )

I can think of twice that happened to me while actually IN The Byn, and a couple of times outside of that where I just observed them and wondered where in the heck all of the Bynners were these days.

People will cry and say, "Oh the Byn gets all of the newbs, that is why they have the players."

The newbs are never the ones that make up the Byn's, or ANY clan's playerbase. It is always the vets. The newbs die quickly and/or aren't around enough for anyone to care.

I find you need at least three to five solid vets in your crew to really make things move along, and vets don't join any clan, even The Byn, without compelling leadership.

Come to think of it I recall running an independent PC mercenary crew at a time when Byn leadership was questionable. I kept taking their mercenaries FROM them, repeatedly.

I had more players in my indy mercenary crew than they did in The Byn, until a Templar got me. Good times.

I have NEVER seen the Byn "dead". Ever. I've seen it plenty of times without a sergeant. I can count the interesting sergeants on two hands. Most are "capable".

I too, have seen the Byn dead on more than one occasion.  Like Desertman, in one of those circumstances my PC (who had to be recruited by an imm while I waited at the gate for days) was flash promoted to Sergeant for what I can only assume was to assist in reviving the clan.

I completely agree - leaders play a large part in drawing players to any particular clan at any given moment, even the Byn.  Of course, once some critical mass is reached things can be self-propelling, but it's really amazing at how quickly the fortunes of a clan can change - a leader dies, a couple of interesting supporting cast members get recruited away or start playing less.. very soon there's a new FOTM.  The heart of a clan is interaction and more players = more interaction.  So long as recruitment is done adhering to IC standards, I wouldn't call out any leader for recruiting "too hard".  Playing a leadership role is difficult enough - no leader needs someone telling them they're trying too hard.  Especially when they then get called out by other people for not trying hard enough if recruitment seems slow.

The effect this has on the IC game world at large is another matter - remember, PCs are standouts from amongst the crowd for any number of reasons, so even though that leader is trying to recruit your PC, they're not necessarily trying to recruit the less memorable VNPC next to you.

[Cale_Knight]

Let me point out-when I take Newbies it's not to be nice. Is to assure myself they will be indoctrinated properly.

This, this, this. A million times this.

When I was playing leadership, I would take pretty much any character who was clearly a newbie and fit my clan requirements, even if I didn't particularly want any more PCs in the clan at the time.

The newbies are all going to die anyway, so do your best to give them an interesting and compelling experience before they croak and you get to take their boots.

[Patuk]

I recruited a newb last year. They are still in their clan. That much I accomplished, at least :3