Would anonymity improve the armageddon experience?

[X-D]

As to masks, part of why they were removed has already been mentioned, the other reason is because many masks did not only hide the mdesc, but changed it. Staff did not like that a half-giant could have the desc of a gimpka...and that I agree with. Also, the ones that just removed the mdesc, Well, how exactly does a mask hide scars on you hands for instance? But I think that is covered with the proper outerwear.

[ShaLeah]

As to masks, part of why they were removed has already been mentioned, the other reason is because many masks did not only hide the mdesc, but changed it. Staff did not like that a half-giant could have the desc of a gimpka...and that I agree with. Also, the ones that just removed the mdesc, Well, how exactly does a mask hide scars on you hands for instance? But I think that is covered with the proper outerwear.

Honestly X-D, I only saw someone masked twice IG before they took it away. Both people were covered from head to toe.

[Harmless]

I don't like it because people will constantly fucking harass me to lower my hood if this went into place and that is not cool. nigga wants his hood up, are you really going to press the issue? sheeit.

[Thunkkin]

Yes, increased anonymity would greatly, greatly improve multiple things.

Obviously, there are always issues with cloaks/masks - "why does a mask keep me from realizing that he's the size of a half giant or covered in tentacles, etc., etc." But either option will have some downsides and require some suspension of disbelief. I think the upsides to increased anonymity far outweigh the upsides to zero anonymity. To me, the choice is, do you want more plots and intrigue or less? MOAR PLEASE.

[Patuk]

As for the whole mask thing, you may want to implement so that it's only the full-body cloaks and such that cover your mdesc.

[Molten Heart]

Something that hides the mdesc could improve the game depending on the method of implementation.  Short of changing how descriptions are created (adding sub descriptors for different body parts hands/arms/legs/face/head/etc that different clothing could hide), a combination of any large cloak and facewrap or mask should be enough.

[whitt]

Up anonymity, de-crim flag subduals.  So that when some anonymous j-off tries to take something in front of the entire Gaj, they get grabbed by their neckery-neck and shaken until the anonymity is removed. :sagenod:  Up the criminals, up the ability of the rest of the world to do something about 'em.

[Lizzie]

It's not just if they have tentacles or are as big as a hg. It doesn't have to be so dramatic/extreme.

The skinny person with the huge tits - won't look any less skinny, and her tits won't be any smaller, just because she has her hood up. She won't be any shorter/taller (which assess can determine anyway), her shoulders won't be any more or less broad, her legs won't be any longer or shorter. Her body type and build, will all be exactly the same whether she has her hood up or down. The Mdesc is the place for putting all this information. Clothing shouldn't be obscuring it.

In broad daylight, at close range, hoods don't cover faces. Hoods don't obscure eyes. They shadow them, but these aren't wraiths in LoTR where all you get to see are black holes surrounded by whirling dark shadows.

Your cloak and your face covering shouldn't be obscuring your shoes/boots or hands, either.

[James de Monet]

I remember a day in the Gaj, before masks were removed, when this one elf using hide kept trying to rob people, and failing. For like 15 minutes. It was ridiculous. Every single person in the room saw him, but couldn't do anything about it, because they couldn't see him. So he just kept trying and getting seen, then hiding and trying again.

It was probably one of my single most frustratingly unreal Armageddon experiences.

To my mind, what you need to make masks work (I think hoods already do what they should) is an "accuse" command. Basically, any citizen could accuse anyone in a city at any time. You would have to be a citizen, though, and if you do it, it's effectively like pointing at someone and yelling for the guards. The guards come (but maybe not running), and if they see the person in question, and that person did commit a crime, they arrest them. If they don't see the person or there was no crime, they fine the "accuse"r 50 'sid (so you would have to have money in your inv, like at the gates or a shop. If you don't have it out by the time they get there, or flee the scene after accusing, they arrest YOU).

This would allow for more crime, but also force criminals to play realistically.

[Clavis]

As much as I would like this idea, I sadly see it getting used a lot like hide, which really irks the shit out of me.

It's not just if they have tentacles or are as big as a hg. It doesn't have to be so dramatic/extreme.

The skinny person with the huge tits - won't look any less skinny, and her tits won't be any smaller, just because she has her hood up. She won't be any shorter/taller (which assess can determine anyway), her shoulders won't be any more or less broad, her legs won't be any longer or shorter. Her body type and build, will all be exactly the same whether she has her hood up or down. The Mdesc is the place for putting all this information. Clothing shouldn't be obscuring it.

In broad daylight, at close range, hoods don't cover faces. Hoods don't obscure eyes. They shadow them, but these aren't wraiths in LoTR where all you get to see are black holes surrounded by whirling dark shadows.

Your cloak and your face covering shouldn't be obscuring your shoes/boots or hands, either.

a lot of this could be done with emotes to reveal her skinny arms, and mammoth ginkas, or the scars on her hands, etc... but like I said earlier I don't see it happening.

[Bogre]

Hoods, no.

Masks, maybe.

[Lizzie]

Hoods, no.

Masks, maybe.

Masks hide ONLY faces. They don't hide necks, shoulders, clothing, armor, bodies, legs, feet, arms, or hands. Unless your mdesc consists exlusively of your character's head, a mask should not hide your entire mdesc. And if your mdesc only includes your character's head and nothing else, I'm hoping the staff will reject it. If they don't, I'll be typoing/ideaing it if I ever see your character in-game.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Going on the idea of a disguise skill - because I love the idea of people being able to hide themselves for certain tasks. There's just too much hope now that someone won't use the information of a look against you, even if covered head to toe and emoting very outwardly that you are covered up.

Perhaps the skill would work something along the lines of requiring a hooded item (and perhaps a mask of some kind) as tools for the skill. Depending on your skill, you could be completely undisguised, wholly without any mdesc, or somewhere in-between, which would show only small parts of your mdesc and any coded scars/tattoos that aren't covered by gear?

"I wasn't able to see much, Sergeant, but I did catch a bit of red hair sticking out of their hood, and a nasty scar on the back of the right hand."

I'm not too sure how possible it is to do such a thing code-wise though, so it might be wishful thinking. =P

[Cutthroat]

Total anonymity with one piece of equipment is... not bad, but "simple". Just like the way the code currently works is simple.

If we want to improve the experience provided by playing, then we can say that the goal of the game is to immerse the players, and in that case the code of the game should generally move to things being less binary to something that is more of a gradient. That goes for a lot of things besides this particular anonymity idea but that's beyond the scope of this thread, I think.

[Desertman]

So long as we are still allowed to use "contact figure" to find out what someone looks like and then use that information to roleplay knowing what they look like...a lot of this doesn't matter.

[Clavis]

It all seems to boil down to us as the players, to use sense, and to actually look at what someone is wearing, instead of scanning bits and pieces of mdesc, and clothing.

wearing mask, helmet but have long hair can prolly see it, gloves hands are hidden, facewrap face is hidden. can't see their torso armor prolly has their cloak closed, so distorting what we do see, etc, etc....

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think that it would be great to be able to hide the mdesc. I would also like if it masked the sdesc as well, if the mdesc was hidden. I've had people 'contact thick figure' for what seemed to be just for getting the sdesc. Raised hood, closed cloak...good enough for me.

[Dresan]

Garbs like this would be common in zalanthas, often not so much to hide your features or religious reasons but because the sandstorms will rip your skin off.



These are clothing people actually wear in the desert, face wraps are common too for men:





A little modern but tell these guys apart:



You are not even going to get five line mdesc from the people above, and no where near the amount of information in most of our mdescs. At most you might get their eye color. However, lets say tomorrow staff implemented an option in character generation where everyone inputted eye colour so that when you look at someone with mdesc hidden you still get to see that they have blue eyes, cat-like yellow eyes or something else. I bet you that suddenly most character's eyes will sudden become very normal and generic. That said you really can't identify someone by their eyes alone so really its moot if you ask me, but maybe players still can add small additions to their hidden mdesc much like tdesc to add such things if they deem them necessary. Tdesc option itself was considered by many to be too prone to abuse and yet its become a great RP tool these days.  

Disguise skill to be would be a skill that allows me to look like someone else, perhaps in order to frame them. That does indeed take skill and cunning to pull off, where as hiding your identify should be as simple as putting on clothing.

Still maybe instead of just all cloaks, special heavy cloaks where raising the hood is more like raising a face wrap or face mask, if only to quel realism arguments. Their mdesc unlike the masks of old with unique mdesc would be generated just like sdesc is when you raise your hood. Any information from assess -v would be added as well. I do like the idea of still being able to contact figure.

The main question still  stands, would anonymous people with a greater ability to commit crimes and escape with their identities hidden be good for the game? Would people running around being able to rob and kill each other half the time without risk to getting caught make the streets at night into a warzone, potentially full of griefers after your boots? Again since in terms of code and even just realism I think its very possible to be almost completely anonymous then we can currently be in game. 

[Zoan]

I keep saying it: just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should.

If you realistically think your PC didn't catch much of a person's image, well, don't copy-paste their mdesc into a notepad for perusal and retention.

[James de Monet]

I keep saying it: just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should.

If you realistically think your PC didn't catch much of a person's image, well, don't copy-paste their mdesc into a notepad for perusal and retention.

That's fine, but it puts the whole onus on the person witnessing. If you're someone else hearing it later, you have no idea what could or could not have been realistically seen.

[Twilight]

I'm happy with a mask, bandana, drawn hood (as opposed to raise hood, so you raise it like now, then draw it to conceal face, with appropriate cloaks) all concealing your desc, as long as...

you are considered crim flagged if your features are obscured in that way, automattically.

[MeTekillot]

you are considered crim flagged if your features are obscured in that way, automattically.

this man is wearing skin-covering clothing in a world where the sand, wind, and sun can actually kill you if you don't protect yourself properly.





obvs criminal, stop in name of hilurd, wish jail close criminals

[slvrmoontiger]

You can't just hide the mdesc in one fell swoop with one piece of equipment. you have to be COMPLETELY covered to do that... And even then as Lizzie points out you would still be able to determine the height, weight, and general shape of that completely covered individual. I cloak to the best of my knowledge isn't going to hide big boobs if your skinny, etc.

[FantasyWriter]

I dislike any single item hiding a full mdesc.

I like the way Haven RPG handled this by having features that showed up no matter what and features for each wearlocation that would be revealed when not covered. I also like that you could forgo that aspect of chargen and just write a normal mdesc.

I would prefer either wear-location-based mdesc hiders or a disguise skill.

[valeria]

Disguise as a skill would please my pants off.  That's only a slight exaggeration.