Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion

[Cutthroat]

I could be wrong, but I think Nyr was referring to Tuluk's less welcoming stance on non-citizens after the Tyn Dashra HRPT and the rah-rah, love-it-or-leave-it atmosphere in Tuluk afterward. Which incidentally came about at a time when players were complaining Tuluk was far too welcoming of non-citizens and other assorted weirdos and that was boring and also the only way to play a Tuluki (not really the case then, but whatever). Now that it isn't welcoming at all, and you have to be, or at least appear, patriotic... that too is boring to some people.

You can't really please everyone, I guess.

You have a point about the city page, BadSkeelz. The Allanak page is more descriptive of the setting of Allanak, while Tuluk focuses more on history. History is nice and it puts things in perspective, but doesn't really describe the city itself, and where a PC can fit into things currently. It would be nice to see the Tuluk page become the "Tuluk history" page, and the Tuluk page describing the Warrens, the Red Sun Commons, Poet's Circle, etc., describing the most common professions people in Tuluk have, like hunting and soldiering and barding and being a criminal (of both the shadow artist and not-shadow-artist variety), describing patronage, and so on. Tuluk definitely isn't bards + soldiers * infinity. That could stand to be more clear.

Edit to add: I guess the ideal Tuluk page would be the Tuluk Details page, heh. http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Tuluk%20Details

[Nyr]

God forbid an RPT happens in Tuluk that doesn't get on the history page  

The city page for Tuluk itself could maybe use some updating, too. There's nothing in it that's really inspiring when it comes to getting the flavor of the city or the roles you could play there.

That really should just be called "Tuluki History up to whenever we felt like stopping."  The "What You Know" page covers a whole lot more.  Ideally, I would like to make this page the "What You Know" page, with a summary at the top that links to the really detailed stuff.  Last time I talked to Morg about it, our thoughts were that a new player doesn't need to know the vast and deep cultural stuff for Tuluk OR Allanak on that What You Know page--they need Cliff's notes with references to the deeper stuff.

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared.

We're sorry you feel that way.  Tuluk has changed a lot in the past several months and one of the things touted is exactly what you say would result in people being bored to death or disappeared.

I'm a little confused. Nyr, are you saying that non-patriotic and non-contributing PCs are even more unwelcome in Tuluk, now? Or is it the opposite, Staff trying to inject some variability in to the character populace? I'm posting as someone who wants to play in Tuluk (if for no other reason right now than an obligation to give the other half of the Known its due) but am having trouble discerning from the publicly available documents just what other kinds of characters are acceptable, other than bards and soldiers.

I'm saying that the kind of work we've done in Tuluk has been to help promote broader and deeper roleplay from people than blind faith in the Sun King.  It wouldn't hurt to know your place and know what to say, but behind the facade of "oh I am so patriotic and so loyal to Utep," there is room for quite a bit of depth.

[BadSkeelz]

Thank you for the link to the "What You Know" page; I'd kind of forgotten that was a thing. It's much more helpful than the main Tuluki page, and (at least for me, personally) much more helpful and interesting than the Tuluki Culture page. I prefer a good narrative lead in than cliff notes, myself. A large part of the reason that my first character wasn't in Tuluk was because there seemed to be a lot more docs that were spread all around. So for me the "What You Know" page is a much stronger draw.

[Desertman]

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared.

We're sorry you feel that way.  Tuluk has changed a lot in the past several months and one of the things touted is exactly what you say would result in people being bored to death or disappeared.

I'm a little confused. Nyr, are you saying that non-patriotic and non-contributing PCs are even more unwelcome in Tuluk, now? Or is it the opposite, Staff trying to inject some variability in to the character populace? I'm posting as someone who wants to play in Tuluk (if for no other reason right now than an obligation to give the other half of the Known its due) but am having trouble discerning from the publicly available documents just what other kinds of characters are acceptable, other than bards and soldiers.

I'm saying that the kind of work we've done in Tuluk has been to help promote broader and deeper roleplay from people than blind faith in the Sun King.  It wouldn't hurt to know your place and know what to say, but behind the facade of "oh I am so patriotic and so loyal to Utep," there is room for quite a bit of depth.

Since I was referenced here, and having experienced some of what "new Tuluk" has to offer and having seen some of the changes first hand I have a new opinion. (And I've only scratched the paint, so to speak.)

All I can say is go to Tuluk and experience some of what it has to offer now. Some of the IC things happening around there are just so "un-Tuluki" in terms of "old soft Tuluk".

I couldn't be happier with where things are going. I'm very interested to see more and to see this place six months from now. Thanks staff.  

(I may even play a villain up that way at some point in the future, since that seems to be viable now if I am guessing correctly.)

[Reiloth]

Wow.

Much change.

Many tears.

Desertman.

[Desertman]

Wow.

Much change.

Many tears.

Desertman.

How I always felt about old Tuluk:



How Tuluk is seriously starting to look: (Anyone who knows about drow warfare/politics and knows about new Tuluk knows that I mean. Very, Menzoberranzan lately, in some regards. )



I don't mean everyone is black elves with white hair running around being evil. Just, the overall feel of the political world in Tuluk now. I find myself wondering if staff took a little inspiration in that regard.

It's 1984 (mindset) meets Minas Tirith (visuals) meets Durzo Blint (shadow artists) meets Menzoberranzan (politics). That's how I would describe it. *nods*

[Blur]

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared.

We're sorry you feel that way.  Tuluk has changed a lot in the past several months and one of the things touted is exactly what you say would result in people being bored to death or disappeared.

This is a pretty bold thing to say.  Again in the past it felt that if you were not mundane, disappeared. Alright fair some might say, magickers beware. Murdered someone without permission, disappeared. Plotted something that didn't mesh well with tuluki happy go lucky ideals, disappeared. Didn't agree with what templars are doing, god forbid tried to plot against anyone in their circle of best buddies, disappeared. Was there really any surprise there was absolutely no real crime in the city back then? Heck what little crime there was state approved after all or was soon disappeared. I can't really call that 'crime'. Now if you are saying this problem was worked on and solved ( or will be fully solved in the near future), then really is a wonderful change.

Which is sad because when I read the docs once upon a time, I got the impression that the people of tuluk were like this in public, but in private they knew what was going on,they took steps and had methods to protect themselves from being discovered. In private behind closed door were able to talk, maybe even take more action.  This has not the case ICly unfortunately, regardless of what spies accomplished in the hrpt. Most of the conflict the city sees comes from the outside, the best conflict being when allanak decides to pay attention to tuluk.

Huh.  That reminds me, we probably should get that history page updated with the most recent RPT in Tuluk and what it affected.  Regardless of who actually chose to get involved with any of the internal conflicts in Tuluk, the opportunity was there the entire time for players to take action.  When major things happen around your character, it is an opportunity for that to affect your character in a deep and profound way.  Even if you aren't around for the actual event in question (or even if you are around but feel like it's just happening around you and you can't do anything to stop it/help it/whatever), the fact that x happened can shape your character's goals in the future.

To me the plots by sponsored roles and larger the plots you are working on definitely icing on a cake. Its really cool that you are taking the time to do all this work and keep the city alive. However, these are spaced out events, the actual cake for me is my own individual plots, my own goals, my own conflicts. Now as you said, this might have changed but until just very recently the tuluki setting has been very limited. When I was a solider, the most I could get away with is being an asshole to undesirables, which in turn made them go elsewhere leaving the place even emptier for me. The moment my character tried to stray from that path of a good happy soldier due to the events that were going on around him,  he almost got disappeared.   As I said, I'm really glad this whole disappeared business is being looked at and hopefully the changes tone it down.

The legion, well my feeling on the legion are pretty much detailed on its the clan forums assuming those posts are still there. Personally for me though, it is unbearable to be in a tuluki clan that does not allow you to leave the city, at least in the scrubs there is a chance something interesting might happen.

Your posts are still there.  Do you remember the posts that were made in response to them?  Posts that would point out that the schedule (such that it is) is OOCly lenient, allowing for soldier PCs to assign themselves to tavern watch or city patrols if there is no other PC around to interact with during their schedule?  Posts that would point out that privates and above actually get time off that they can request from their PC bosses (or virtually, if no boss is around) in which they can do exactly what you are saying is unbearable?  All of that was before we even mentioned things like new documentation and complete restructuring of the clan.

I'd also recommend reviewing these changes and also noting that Legion soldiers now get paid in a manner comparable to other soldiers rather than the pittance they were paid before.  Regardless of what issues you had or thought you had with the Legion, it is structured quite a bit differently now.

The schedule changes meant that my character was basically restricted to patrolling a city which was already feeling more or less empty and dead. I will agree that it was a vast improvement to being forced to solo train in the barracks the entire day under the old schedule. The legion's schedule slowly grew on me as I tested them out, and I'm hoping to see them one day being implemented in clans that might also be restrictive schedule wise. However, I'm not referring to just the legion when I that I will never join a tuluki clan that is restricted to the city. The reason is because in tuluk, there was a greater chance of conflict happening in wilderness surrounding it then there was in the actual city, whether it be magicker, raider, southerner or just shit hitting the fan. In allanak, you have gemmers, rinthers, aides, elves, southside, merchants, solders, nobles and templars. Everyone is very willing to fuck each other over the moment they get a chance too most of the time. Conflict just happens within in allanak as if were the most natural thing, and that is on top of the every day crime and conflict from redstorm. It also doesn't just get disappeared, not without making a big ruckus first at least. Granted a compromise was reached and some freedoms were given to my legionnaire so long as someone else was logged on, but personally for me it just didn't beat being able to roam around looking for trouble/fun. Afterall at the time, there was just very little to do within tuluk and that went double if you are off-peaker, and that was on top of all that i felt i there was very little I was allowed to do with my character plot wise anyways without getting disappeared. It hasn't felt that way in allanak.

Also back then your argument was that there would be changes coming to the city that would improve the situation, thus giving us players a better setting to plot and play in. You were right, there have been a lot of changes since then, they all look in the right direction.  The shadow artist system look completely oppressive to me practically becoming a templar's pets/tools but I'm hoping that's the idea, you force people to take crime/dissent/corruption into their own hands without being immediately disappeared to accomplish their goals.  I'm looking forward to seeing how it all looks when its all set and done. Hopefully coming back, playing and heck, maybe trying a city bound clan someday again there.

Thanks again for all the work.

[Blur]

(I may even play a villain up that way at some point in the future, since that seems to be viable now if I am guessing correctly.)

Now if this is possible, then the changes are really going to breathe new life into the place.

[Malken]

I agree with Blur on his first point.

There is a certain element that will someday need to be addressed.. An element that many of us know about but that talking about it would be a big no no on the GDB. It's an IC element that makes all sort of criminal thoughts and misbehavior nearly impossible to play out, or the attempt of playing anything but the most of mundanes really hard, nearly impossible and I think it's a big shame that we can't complain openly about it/offer ideas/etc.. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I like to think that this 'element' was changed with the IC changes from a few months ago, but I may be wrong. Tell me I'm right, Nyr

[Nyr]

This is a pretty bold thing to say.  Again in the past it felt that if you were not mundane, disappeared. Alright fair some might say, magickers beware. Murdered someone without permission, disappeared. Plotted something that didn't mesh well with tuluki happy go lucky ideals, disappeared. Didn't agree with what templars are doing, god forbid tried to plot against anyone in their circle of best buddies, disappeared. Was there really any surprise there was absolutely no real crime in the city back then? Heck what little crime there was state approved after all or was soon disappeared. I can't really call that 'crime'. Now if you are saying this problem was worked on and solved ( or will be fully solved in the near future), then really is a wonderful change.

Not mundane and get caught not being mundane, disappeared.  Murdered someone, unlicensed and without a contract to do so, and didn't have the clout to back it up, disappeared.  Plotted something that didn't mesh well with Tuluki happy go lucky ideals, no one gives a damn.  Didn't agree with what templars are doing, no one gives a damn unless you say something stupid to someone that'll report it (then, possibly, disappeared).  Plotted against a templar's best buddies and got caught, potentially targeted by a shadow artist and (if successful) disappeared.  There are key things that people in either city-state have to do, it is not limited to Tuluk.  Playing in Tuluk doesn't give you carte blanche to play a character in a dumb way and be able to blame your PC's death or negative circumstances on "the system".

To me the plots by sponsored roles and larger the plots you are working on definitely icing on a cake. Its really cool that you are taking the time to do all this work and keep the city alive.  However, these are spaced out events, the actual cake for me is my own individual plots, my own goals, my own conflicts. Now as you said, this might have changed but until just very recently the tuluki setting has been very limited. When I was a solider, the most I could get away with is being an asshole to undesirables, which in turn made them go elsewhere leaving the place even emptier for me.  The moment my character tried to stray from that path of a good happy soldier due to the events that were going on around him,  he almost got disappeared.   As I said, I'm really glad this whole disappeared business is being looked at and hopefully the changes tone it down.

I've read over your reports and I really don't think you were ever squashed by staff or other players in your plans, and I think you're exaggerating some of this.  Even in your first report we said we are happy to see people being corrupt and stuff.  How you go about being corrupt is important, though.

The schedule changes meant that my character was basically restricted to patrolling a city which was already feeling more or less empty and dead.

But you could take off days when you wanted (within reason) or give yourself tavern watch if there was no one else on at the same time as you.  Restricted?  You mean "allowed", right?  If every other clan is more restricted than that, and you were allowed to spend a lot more time on your own than most players have in any other clan that is military-ish, your issue isn't so much with this group or with any group--it's a playtime problem.

The reason is because in tuluk, there was a greater chance of conflict happening in wilderness surrounding it then there was in the actual city, whether it be magicker, raider, southerner or just shit hitting the fan. In allanak, you have gemmers, rinthers, aides, elves, southside, merchants, solders, nobles and templars. Everyone is very willing to fuck each other over the moment they get a chance too most of the time. Conflict just happens within in allanak as if were the most natural thing, and that is on top of the every day crime and conflict from redstorm. It also doesn't just get disappeared, not without making a big ruckus first at least. Granted a compromise was reached and some freedoms were given to my legionnaire so long as someone else was logged on, but personally for me it just didn't beat being able to roam around looking for trouble/fun. Afterall at the time, there was just very little to do within tuluk and that went double if you are off-peaker, and that was on top of all that i felt i there was very little I was allowed to do with my character plot wise anyways without getting disappeared. It hasn't felt that way in allanak.

There was definitely a lot of chance to get involved in conflict recently, I'd say, and the internal conflict thing is something that has been pushed of late.  I mean, even now (before the history page update I am talking about) you can see that. 

The shadow artist system look completely oppressive to me practically becoming a templar's pets/tools

This isn't quite how it works or even quite how it could work.  We'll have a post up (maybe a thread up) for this soon with some examples.  Glad you are open to looking at it again, though!

[Nyr]

I agree with Blur on his first point.

There is a certain element that will someday need to be addressed.. An element that many of us know about but that talking about it would be a big no no on the GDB. It's an IC element that makes all sort of criminal thoughts and misbehavior nearly impossible to play out, or the attempt of playing anything but the most of mundanes really hard, nearly impossible and I think it's a big shame that we can't complain openly about it/offer ideas/etc.. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I like to think that this 'element' was changed with the IC changes from a few months ago, but I may be wrong. Tell me I'm right, Nyr

You mean the thing that we specifically put in the documentation to stop this sort of silly beat-around-the-bush wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff?

Key list of changes

Updated documentation for the "What You Know" page for Tuluk to bring it more in line with the type of information provided on Allanak's page, and also to update it with the current paradigm.

• Expanded on the oppression of Tuluk ("near-constant state of benevolent oppression"), explaining the dichotomy between loyalty/love for the Sun King and the possibility of fearing one's templarate and soldiers.
• Matched up the same sort of verbiage used for describing Allanak's templars as being granted powers by Tektolnes; this was something of a poorly kept and annoying OOC secret in Tuluk that affected IC play in weird ways.
• Brought the information on the page more in line with the AoD page, though less verbose.  As such, templar backing by the Sun King is made more visible.
• Overall view towards templars/soldiers made a bit more clear to match up better with recent events.

To be utterly blunt, here's what Allanak's page says about their templars:

Templars are His Gloriousness's elite soldiers and spellcasters. Their power comes from Tektolnes Himself rather than from the elements, more deadly but with few applications aside from destroying people who pose a threat to Him. Templars basically have the power to act as judge, jury and executioner, and don't hesitate to use it whenever they desire.

Here's what Tuluk's page says about their templars:

In addition to slavery, the city-state of Tuluk's authority figures keep the citizenry in a near-constant state of benevolent oppression. Tuluki citizens tend to maintain fierce and true feelings of loyalty and almost love towards their Sun King. However, they may well simultaneously feel fear from His Faithful that are empowered with abilities of the mind and body that He grants them.

Here's what the AoD page says about its templars:

Their authority is backed up by the powerful magick they wield, gifted by Tektolnes to his greatest servants.

Here's what the USC page says about its templars:

The authority of the Templarate is backed by the Sun King and the abilities of the mind and body that He grants His Faithful servants.

We made a deliberate change to this with Producer approval precisely because of the kind of posting about it, the fact that it was this unspoken yet well-known "secret."  It makes sense to assume IC that if Allanak's templars have some powers given by their sorcerer-king, so also goes Tuluk.  We're explicitly stating it.  However, just like the helpfiles and docs don't say what Allanaki templars can do with their magick, neither do they say what Tuluki templars can do with their granted abilities of the mind and body.  Furthermore, we've made changes to the skills and abilities that they have and how they are granted and set, and we've come up with a way to balance things in a manner we feel appropriate, taking years of playerbase and staff concerns into account.

Find out IC, but for the love of God, you can stop pretending that you can't mention that aspect of Tuluki templars.

[Malken]

Furthermore, we've made changes to the skills and abilities that they have and how they are granted and set, and we've come up with a way to balance things in a manner we feel appropriate, taking years of playerbase and staff concerns into account.

Find out IC, but for the love of God, you can stop pretending that you can't mention that aspect of Tuluki templars.

Hey now, I wasn't aware of that part in the docs and didn't want to be told that I'm revealing some major IC secrets, hence the 'hush hush' style of attempting to speak about something without getting spanked (damned if you do, damned if you don't), but from reading the bold part of your answer, that makes me very happy to read about the fair changes and whatever they might be, any changes there is much appreciated

[Nyr]

No problem.  I figured more people would see it when it first came up but apparently not, heh!

[Nyr]

Removed a few posts up here discussing events that probably shouldn't be brought up on the GDB.  I'll reiterate this post and elaborate...

Didn't agree with what templars are doing, no one gives a damn unless you say something stupid to someone that'll report it (then, possibly, disappeared).  Plotted against a templar's best buddies and got caught, potentially targeted by a shadow artist and (if successful) disappeared.  There are key things that people in either city-state have to do, it is not limited to Tuluk.  Playing in Tuluk doesn't give you carte blanche to play a character in a dumb way and be able to blame your PC's death or negative circumstances on "the system".

Don't get caught, or don't blab to people, or have better timing.  Any of those would work.  Stop assuming something vaguely nefarious when something you do IC results in negative IC action.

[bcw81]

For the sake of those that like grids, we could swap the eastern "dining area thingy" in the Sanctuary to become a western one, now that the Artisans Area is gone...

While I just figured out how to map Tuluk and have finished doing so, and this would make me have to go back and rework the map a bit...

Please? There's only one other area that doesn't fit on the grid the way I see it anymore, and that's the Gaur Pandu road where it intersects with Chyata's Gate (Spelling be ignored). It moves one room too far north and blocks the gate on a gridmap.

[Blur]

Removed a few posts up here discussing events that probably shouldn't be brought up on the GDB.  I'll reiterate this post and elaborate...

Didn't agree with what templars are doing, no one gives a damn unless you say something stupid to someone that'll report it (then, possibly, disappeared).  Plotted against a templar's best buddies and got caught, potentially targeted by a shadow artist and (if successful) disappeared.  There are key things that people in either city-state have to do, it is not limited to Tuluk.  Playing in Tuluk doesn't give you carte blanche to play a character in a dumb way and be able to blame your PC's death or negative circumstances on "the system".

Don't get caught, or don't blab to people, or have better timing.  Any of those would work.  Stop assuming something vaguely nefarious when something you do IC results in negative IC action.

It doesn't really change the fact that in Tuluk it could be a snitch or something vaguely nefarious. I'm not exaggerating anything and in my report I didn't assume any one possibility.There is a key aspect in tuluk which isn't present in allanak, that goes well beyond simply saying something stupid or just playing dumb. It was/is a big part of that old is part of that 'system' which is find out IC for me.  It doesn't really matter if the risk is real or just perceived, the mere idea that it exists makes it feel a lot harder if not impossible not to get caught. Thus no real crime in the entire city. Coincidentally fanatical patriotism has been also been consequence of that 'system'. Its follow, obey or be disappeared.   It has been stated that hopefully changes will now allowing character a bit more depth in regards to unyielding tuluki love then in the past. Great!  

Anyways, I've derailed enough, this feels like another thread, one that I'm pretty sure already exists and had been already locked.

Again good job on the map changes.

[Knight of Knives]

Removed a few posts up here discussing events that probably shouldn't be brought up on the GDB.  I'll reiterate this post and elaborate...

Didn't agree with what templars are doing, no one gives a damn unless you say something stupid to someone that'll report it (then, possibly, disappeared).  Plotted against a templar's best buddies and got caught, potentially targeted by a shadow artist and (if successful) disappeared.  There are key things that people in either city-state have to do, it is not limited to Tuluk.  Playing in Tuluk doesn't give you carte blanche to play a character in a dumb way and be able to blame your PC's death or negative circumstances on "the system".

Don't get caught, or don't blab to people, or have better timing.  Any of those would work.  Stop assuming something vaguely nefarious when something you do IC results in negative IC action.

It doesn't really change the fact that in Tuluk it could be a snitch or something vaguely nefarious. I'm not exaggerating anything and in my report I didn't assume any one possibility.There is a key aspect in tuluk which isn't present in allanak, that goes well beyond simply saying something stupid or just playing dumb. It was/is a big part of that old is part of that 'system' which is find out IC for me.  It doesn't really matter if the risk is real or just perceived, the mere idea that it exists makes it feel a lot harder if not impossible not to get caught. Thus no real crime in the entire city. Coincidentally fanatical patriotism has been also been consequence of that 'system'.

I think that at the current state of Tuluk, it is almost certainly a snitch or something vaguely nefarious. That key aspect which is continuously being alluded to I believe now allows for a huge range of things beyond fanatical patriotism - until, of course, you are gently 'corrected'. I think that playing a character who is criminal/malcontent in Tuluk is in parts easier and in parts harder than Allanak. You have to be a -lot- more careful with your friends and who you pick as enemies. You essentially have license to fuck up anyone elses business as long as you have the coin, and there's nothing stopping any criminal from working out deals with the Templarate: "My contract is 500 sid this year, for burglary rights to apartments on Poet's road, etc etc'. There's nothing from stopping you assuming a partisanship with nobles and templars to -do- those sorts of things. And unlicensed crime? I think it should definitely be viable - but the PC templars should not be spending their time chasing someone's lost daggers. That's for the PC soldiers to do - giving both types of characters fun things to 'do' in Tuluk rather than wander around. It also elevates the status of those who are actual 'artists', giving them a reason to be hired rather than the warren rats scraping together sid.

Moreover, Desertman's thoughts mesh entirely with my own: it's very Menzobarrazan. This gives a rich den of above-the-belt subterfuge and behind-the-back backstabbing between the noble houses, and a reason for the noble PCs to hire and promote plots for their underlings. Mix in the possibility of commoner families hoping to distinguish themselves in the Sun King's eyes and be raised to Surif (personal hope of mine), and you have a rich setting for plenty of craziness: a precarious balance of money/power between those in the same social circle as you, with the constant looking ahead on how to elevate and the constant checking behind for others to crawl over your corpse, with everyone presenting the best possible 'face' that they can to the Sun King and the Templarate, the arbiters of the conflicts.

My thoughts of Tuluk was always that it was supposed to be everyone fighting over Daddy Utep's favor: elbowing each other in the kidneys as you try to be the best. "I'm the best Tuluki- look at the gemmer I just killed!" "No I am- look at this contest I just won with this fantastic song I just wrote." "But I've been in the Levy for -six- years!"

"No, -we- are. Look how our House of such loyal and noble lineage has helped His Ivory by rooting out treason within -this- House and this is why we deserve this Qynarate."

For this to work, Daddy can't always be there watching everything, and can't be omnisciently ready to spank anyone who gets the barest fraction out of line. I think the recent changes support that.

[slvrmoontiger]

I was going to post something, but decided not to post it because it might be considered in-game. Suffice it to say some things I'm happy about. Other things are bearable. Others go completely contrary to what I thought certain things were about. Yet, others are quite troubling, upsetting and frustrating. Its a change that's going to take a while to adjust to. I realize it needed to be done, but I think things got lost for my character in particular that they held to one of which being some comfort. But it is what it is. I know staff worked really hard on it and applaud them for the effort and the work.

Really?

So you were going to post something in a thread for discussing these actual changes, but instead of identifying specific issues or even putting in a request to address issues that are related to your character, you vaguebooked about it? Do you want your feedback to be taken into account and actually responded to, or do you want to complain about something with no accountability or expectation of anyone taking you seriously?  It really seems like the latter; if that is the case, please just preface future posts with that so that staff members interested in legitimate feedback don't spend too much time parsing it.  "I'm happy about some things."  "Other things are bearable."  "Others are very troubling."  "My character is totally lost...but oh, no, it's great."  I think we'd rather have someone say they hate the whole thing (explaining what they hate), love the whole thing (explaining what they love), complain about specific parts or praise specific parts...any of that would be much more preferable than seeing someone vaguely complain and vaguely praise it at the same time without addressing anything.  People have already addressed specific issues here and sometimes they don't get a response directly, but it is at least said, vented, or acknowledged in some regard.  Please take that into account for any future posts you make. 

That goes for anyone.  Vague complaints and vague praise serve no purpose.  If you love what someone is doing, send them a kudos.  If you hate what someone is doing and want them to absolutely stop, put in a complaint.  If it's not to either of those extremes, at least state your case--if it's too IC you have options for stating your case to staff directly.

I guess the two things that are most concerning are as follows:

1) The apartment that used to be said as being the safest in Tuluk is now left wide open to non-citizens. Was this an intentional thing to have this apartment chosen not to have a tattoo checker before it? If not, when can we hope for this mistake to be corrected?
2) It is a little difficult to figure out how to get around. When I wrote this things were changing and the Directions command still wasn't all that great. The Dasari Stand must have moved like 3 times, hopefully the new placement is going to be her permanent home.

I find it very frustrating that I did make compliments, however the only thing that stuck out to you was the complaint. I think the change is great, because there's a lot less walking from place to place. Long walks/rides got quite tiresome when going through the city and it did make it difficult to find others to socialize with. I also like the new tavern I guess I would make a suggestion about putting some tables or something to sit on in the fire pits area though, beyond that its beautiful and quite fitting. Once again thank you staff for all the hard work you have put into improving Tuluk.

[Nyr]

I guess the two things that are most concerning are as follows:

1) The apartment that used to be said as being the safest in Tuluk is now left wide open to non-citizens. Was this an intentional thing to have this apartment chosen not to have a tattoo checker before it? If not, when can we hope for this mistake to be corrected?

Yeah, we need to move a tattoo checker there.  Not a big deal.  Though keep in mind that when we do apartment revamps in Tuluk (similar to the ones in Allanak), these apartments and the ones in Poets' Circle are probably first on the list for lots of other reasons.  Eventually there will be a place for noncitizens to stay, too.

2) It is a little difficult to figure out how to get around. When I wrote this things were changing and the Directions command still wasn't all that great. The Dasari Stand must have moved like 3 times, hopefully the new placement is going to be her permanent home.

The directions command was correct for all but three locations for a period of about 24 hours.  When you wrote this things were not still changing, there were a handful of cleanup items to address and that was it..  The Dasari stand moved once--from where it was to where it was going.  Period.

I find it very frustrating that I did make compliments, however the only thing that stuck out to you was the complaint.

Most of your post was a complaint.  If you didn't want it to be focused on then you shouldn't have made it, or you should've been specific (as you have been now) so that it can be addressed.

[Nyr]

I also like the new tavern I guess I would make a suggestion about putting some tables or something to sit on in the fire pits area though, beyond that its beautiful and quite fitting.

That's a possibility that could be added; we'll make a note!

[Malken]

It's not a tattoo checker guy that's going to keep you from harm if someone wishes you harm. As long as it keeps non-citizens from renting apartments if/when they are not supposed to, it does the job it's supposed to.

[slvrmoontiger]

It's not a tattoo checker guy that's going to keep you from harm if someone wishes you harm. As long as it keeps non-citizens from renting apartments if/when they are not supposed to, it does the job it's supposed to.

That's all I really ask for. To be honest I really got pissed off when I found there wasn't someone stopping non-citizens from renting in that apartment after the move of the apartment. I understand harm comes from citizens... Its the matter of non-citizens renting in an apartment that shouldn't be able to after an OOC change. It really could affect IG stuff. That wasn't what this change was about from what I understood. It was meant to be OOC change. One was to act like that's where the apartment always was and nothing changed from the norm IG.

[Nyr]

It's not a tattoo checker guy that's going to keep you from harm if someone wishes you harm. As long as it keeps non-citizens from renting apartments if/when they are not supposed to, it does the job it's supposed to.

That's all I really ask for. To be honest I really got pissed off when I found there wasn't someone stopping non-citizens from renting in that apartment after the move of the apartment. I understand harm comes from citizens... Its the matter of non-citizens renting in an apartment that shouldn't be able to after an OOC change. It really could affect IG stuff. That wasn't what this change was about from what I understood. It was meant to be OOC change. One was to act like that's where the apartment always was and nothing changed from the norm IG.

This is where you should take a moment to breathe and understand you're playing a game.  When things change, especially on a large scale, you're going to see some things that did not work as intended, were oversights, or just codedly didn't fit properly.  Accept that up front and you'll have much more fun playing this game.

This is a lot easier to do:

In the room outside, type this.

typo hey, looks like with the apartment move there's not a tattoo checker in place--this would allow non-citizens into an area of the public quarter that they previously have not been allowed in.

Don't vaguely rant on the GDB about it. Don't go in depth here about how this could really affect IG stuff, either.  It's a silly thing to be pissed off over.  The way you are writing this and the way you have written other things about this move makes it look like you have difficulty separating IC from OOC.

[Desertman]

[Barsook]

I feel like the tiny, copper-skinned, auburn-haired woman in the Sun King's doesn't belong, she should be in the Thooth or the other one.  A.lso the prices and the items that bartender is offering is still the old Sun King's?  Will this be changed?