On Getting Involved in Plots and Secrecy (Yet another thread saved from RAT)

[Nyr]

I think most of my steps were racurtne's...

Well, good post, racurtne. 

[racurtne]

I think most of my steps were racurtne's...

Well, good post, racurtne. 

Thank you. 

[Lizzie]

Well then read both those posts - then re-read them! Thanks Racurtne.

[Saellyn]

Actually, we could take Racurtne's (or Nyrs) post, move it into its own thing, and maybe sticky it in the Roleplaying thread as a guide to getting involved in plots, perhaps?

[valeria]

My step-by-step advice for a leader (sponsored or otherwise) hoping to get involved in stuff is:

(1) tell staff what your character is doing and why you're doing it
(2) do not take it as a "no" when staff tells you that your character's superior does not like the idea
(3) do what your character would do anyway
(4) accept that there will be IC consequences
(5) RP the shit out of whatever you are doing, the IC consequences, or preferably both

I also strongly recommend pursuing plots that do not absolutely require staff involvement, especially not right from the start.  For instance, building plots.  But if your character absolutely must pursue a building plot, never assume something will actually be built.  Never assume that staff will add something to the game.  Assume that you will be funding everything.  Having to hire everyone to do everything.  Having to gather all the materials.  Having to do all the schmoozing.  Then turn ways to make money/hire people/gather whatever into your plot.

[Zoan]

Every time staff told me my seniors told me no, and I did it anyway, they'd mobpossess said senior and clout me about the ear. It was awesome, and they didn't need to do it but they wanted to.

[HavokBlue]

I don't think the importance of longevity can be stressed enough. It can be frustrating when you join X Clan and it seems like nothing is going on, or your boss keeps alluding to things or running off to private meetings without telling you what's happening, but try to look at it from his perspective. You could be a spy, or an assassin, or an idiot, or maybe you're mudsexxing the aide of his rival and he's worried you'll let something important slip because he doesn't trust you yet.

Work your way into things by proving that you are useful and/or interesting!

[senseofeven]

I believe being interesting and interacting with others is a plus point for me. Play your character, all their quirks, mistakes, wrongs, goods, strengths, whatever. Make them feel alive IG and other people who can feel it will want to hang out and talk with your PC more. Living long is just one of the insurance to your leaders that you know what it takes to survive and they can start trusting you with funner stuff.

Took a while, but I'm glad I didn't play some anti-social badass who'd just grunt in their responses and act all kool.

[Is Friday]

I'd like to point out that while you should play an interesting character, be advised that if you like to rage against the machine... your only plot will probably be a shitty death.

Also: do not play misogynists.

[Old Kank]

Longevity is great and all, but... ehhhh.  What kind of longevity are we talking about?  I'll give most clans about 4-6 weeks to start getting my character involved in stuff.  If my character survives the "recruit" phase, plus a little extra, and the clan leadership is still keeping him completely in the dark?  No thanks, I'll look elsewhere.  The recruit year is plenty of time to vet a character and decide whether or not they're a spy, competent, or otherwise unworthy of being trusted.

The bottom line, for me, is that I'm a busy guy, and I don't have time to donate 15-20 hours a week for 6-12 months just in the hopes that my character might be deemed worthy of entrance into the big vault of super secrets.  I give a book about five chapters to grab my interest before I toss it in the trash.  I give movies half an hour, and tv shows one episode.  Hell, I give most video games about five minutes to decide if it's worth my time or not.  I love Arm, so I cut it some slack, but there has to be a reasonable limit.

The real kicker is this:  Most secrets and plots in Arm are a joke.  That clan leader is worried about being spied on, or assassinated?  Really?  Personally, I can only think of about five, maybe ten characters in the entire history of Arm who were actually worth spying on.  There's this big myth in Arm that knowledge is power, but that's only true for people who believe it.  Really, knowledge is only useful for characters who have the power to act on it, and that excludes about 90-95% of the characters at any given point.  I've seen people clam up, and get mysterious about the dumbest "secrets," including the outcome of arena games that were witnessed by 40+ PCs, or a clan event that was missed due to RL scheduling conflicts.  It's infuriating.

When we pretend that every little occurrence in game is a giant secret that must be guarded and covered up, all we're really doing is sapping the interest right out of the game.  There's a time and place for secrets, but it seems to me like people have gone completely overboard with it, and that ain't good.

[Delirium]

[RogueGunslinger]

Stuff...

Yes! All of these things you said. Yes.

[Is Friday]

[Kismetic]

I have an alternate theory.  Be useful.  And you will find yourself involved in stuff.  Be useful and interesting more than the sum of your combat/crafting/sneaking/hunting/grebbing/mudsexing skills.  Unless you're an indie.  Then, whatever, go mudsex somebody and hope they're loose tongued. 

[Bogre]

A lot of the points mentioned have been great.

Some simple ways to get involved in a plot: offer to spy for someone, or 'volunteer' information.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is starting your -own- plots will often tangle you up in others' machinations as well. Approach your superiors with ideas. Do things on your own.

As far as hoping your 3day ranger grebber is going to be searching for the amulet of Azarkna'svan to crack open a rift in the Vrun Driath, well, that's a little bit optimistic. To get in on the real crazy, really 'secret' stuff, you have to be -very- highly trusted by other PCs, or have been working towards such a goal yourself for a long time.

[Thunkkin]

These threads always remind me of what a mediocre/bad leader I was. I wanted to get my minions involved in stuff, but I wasn't even involved in nefarious stuff. The House was making shit, and selling the shit, and no one was actively fucking with us that I was aware of, and we were rolling in money and ... yeah. That was about all that was going on.

Sigh.

[Is Friday]

I was never really a player that enjoyed plots > character interaction. Plots are actually kind of boring to me.

[Barzalene]

I have an alternate theory.  Be useful.  And you will find yourself involved in stuff.  Be useful and interesting more than the sum of your combat/crafting/sneaking/hunting/grebbing/mudsexing skills. 

A lot of the points mentioned have been great.

Some simple ways to get involved in a plot: offer to spy for someone, or 'volunteer' information.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is starting your -own- plots will often tangle you up in others' machinations as well. Approach your superiors with ideas. Do things on your own.

These thoughts resonate.

[whitt]

I was never really a player that enjoyed plots > character interaction. Plots are actually kind of boring to me.

+1

[Barzalene]

Plots should generate interaction. If they don't they're crappy plots.

[whitt]

Plots should generate interaction. If they don't they're crappy plots.

Good point!  Even better if a player is involved in a plot, they should also generate interaction.  Otherwise see above about secrets.

[Is Friday]

I feel like whenever there's "plot this" or "plot that", it encourages the less experienced characters to sit in a room and do nothing--waiting for the plot to just "happen". If you're constantly playing a proactive character you don't really have to wait around for something interesting.

[Oleupata]

One other thing to keep in mind is that plots don't often come with special wrapping that says, "Keep it Secret, keep it Safe! Now with uber sekrit plotz inside!" Instead, being involved in a 'plot' is just like regular interaction with other people, with the exception that you are, knowingly or unknowingly, directing your energies (or having them directed) toward a particular, usually uncoded goal. That goal can be anything, and you may even know what it is without realizing you're part of a 'plot'.

Some examples might include:

• Start, run, and maintain an independent merchant company, hunters' collective, or skimmer crew.
• Convince the elves next door to move out of their apartment.
• Out that one guy as a secret magicker. (Or better yet, keep that information secret for blackmail purposes.)
• Screw over a rival noble so your employer looks good.

None of these really scream 'plot' if what you're thinking of is something 'world-shaking' or relevant to some specific aspect of current events, like the war. Yet they are, and having these sorts of goals where staff intervention is usually unecessary, but it's good to let us know what's going on so we can keep the pulse of events in case that changes, or in case it ties in somewhere you don't know about, frankly provide the lion's share of the fun in this game.

[Armaddict]

Screw over a rival noble so your employer looks good.

This one grabs my eye for a very particular reason.  I think the playerbase, as a whole, has come to a much more 'cooperative' state than things used to be.  This is from experiences over the last couple years, from external and internal viewpoints, leader and lackey roles.  I think players are much more averse to aggressive moves.

In the case of noble houses, this is important.  Outside of multiple elven clans or groups working in temporary tandem, the most intrigue ever comes through noble plots.  That is not necessarily nobles telling you 'do this for me'.  I used to tell my 'minions' that the greatest employees were the ones who acted in their employers interests on their own accord, and filtered out which ones could do it well and which ones couldn't.  The latter turned into dependable direct allies.  The former turned into very free-flowing, hands off sponsorship, of a sort.

I'd like to see this intrigue alive and well (and it may be, right now, I'm admittedly completely out of the loop of current politics).  While I feel that staff should remain in 'moving plots', that's because of the tendency their plots had to involve multiple clans, and move plots on a more massive scale (even if it was subtle movements).  But single players can make these super sekrit plots incredibly -intense-.

I can recall, in the past few years, a couple characters whom some of mine viewed as direct competition.  There were no direct conflicts, but their movements, their behavior, everything about them screamed that they were involved in things that I could never, ever prove.  They drove me making personal plots and vendettas to undercut their involvements.  It made it a -grand- time.

Plz help your nooble.

[Norcal]

I'll be honest about it. I'm trying to give constructive criticism while also being askance of the recent plot. I do like the things which people have said. I don't necessarily kind of try and require specific plots, and I understand being secretive. But, sometimes it seems like Nobles kinda have all the people which they can carry, and perhaps Templars can be busy. I kind of like Nyr's timeline, but sometimes I feel to do some things we'd require staff assistance. Especially, considering the fact that stuff they used on the tree and such, seems and hardly be with the game. Was it abused, kinda? Stuff like that could, probably used right, assist. Also, I get worried about staff wishing and keep us from doing some things that might change a bit. An honest thought.

Well, I do agree that some plots are a level or two removed from most PCs, at least in terms of the decision making and direct involvement. However they are not closed off by any means. You simply have to set objectives for your PC, and move towards them.  This takes time and effort. Longevity is necessary. That is why players who want to have the role of a Noble or a Templar have to prove that they have a track record showing that they are capable.

On the other hand, it is not only Nobles who hatch plots or Templars who run spy networks. There are many story-lines in game which you could get involved in, that will eventually get you directly involved in some of the larger plots. You could also develop your own story-line, try and plot to bring down this or that house or group, or build a network of spies. This is something great about Arm. I have had mundane non city based PCs end up in these kinds of plots even when they did not want to.  If you take time, you will eventually be in the thick of it, for better or for worse. Murder corruption and betrayal start in the mind.