Player complaints

[MeTekillot]

I just want to know how common it is for people to file complaints. If you must, please refrain from absolutely any specifics pertaining to situation where you wanted/did want to file a complaint.

[spicemustflow]

The only time I've ever filed a complaint was when a very powerful and staff-backed PC was killing PCs who were obviously fresh out of Hall of Kings.

[palomar]

Usually not more than a handful each year. 3-4 perhaps. Bad name choices, RL stuff blending into the IG stuff (sexism etc), code abuse of various kinds.

[Barsook]

I did but I ended up cancelling the request.

[Lizzie]

A couple every year, and often I'll preface the details with "Hey staff, this isn't really a complaint more of a heads-up about this new player who clearly needs more help than I can give them with just an OOC in-game."

So I submit the heads-up as a complaint, because there's no other request tool topic to submit a "new player is totally not getting this game and needs assistance" subject

[Pale Horse]

..I've been playing for..15 years?  Something like that.

I just realized I've never filed a player complaint...

[Refugee]

Just once, about a new player who just needed a little guidance.

[Cutthroat]

Looking back, I mainly put in 1-2 a year since starting. I probably could have put in a few more, but tended to let things slide and just mentioned them in reports if the character died as a result of the strange things the player was doing.

Like Lizzie, I think it's good to use to mention minor problems, say that these problems are indeed minor and the player could benefit from a bit of staff nudging, and let them get handled by staff before they become major problems.

Staff isn't going to ban a player who uses a weird PC name or abuses the quit command one time - they will warn them or otherwise encourage them to be a bit more creative. (At least I hope so.) But I imagine staff collects player complaints mostly to see if multiple instances of the complaint are happening with one player across multiple characters, and then picks up the gavel at that point.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Just the once, ever.

[manipura]

I have played many years and have only filed two player complaints.  I didn't like doing it to be honest.  If I remember correctly I prefaced both of them with something like "Hey Staff, not sure if this warrants a complaint or not or if it's just me being particular and a bit of a nag but this is what I've recently encountered in game..."


Both were instances that I felt were leaning heavily toward code abuse, and not just me being picky of someone's RP:

One was a situation where I felt there was zero realistic RP leading up to something that happened.  With that one I mentioned that if staff looked at logs and saw that there was indeed some form of RP and it wasn't actually power-gaming/twinking/code abuse, then please disregard the complaint and let me know so I could send the person in question a kudos instead.

The other time was when I felt a veteran player was strongly encouraging a newer player to 'OOCly play the code' as opposed to realistically playing their character.

[Lizzie]

I just checked back on my actual request tool complaints. I've submitted more than a couple yearly. 2012 was the most, with 8. 2013 was 3, 2011 was 4, 2010 was 3, and 2009 was 1.

2012 had a couple of complaints each on two different characters, with a window of time between each one.

I've also reported when someone tried to tell (what they believed to be) a new player how to OOCly code-play skillsets.

Still, other than 2012, I've only submitted a few over the years. I see no problem with using the complaint tool. I don't feel like I'm trying to get someone punished, I feel like I'm trying to make sure the staff is aware of behaviors that might - or might not - need monitoring. It's also helpful to me, because if I submit a complaint about something, and the staff says "that isn't a violation," I can adjust *my* reaction to it.

[slvrmoontiger]

I believe I've only submitted a couple complaints. One of which was with a character that appeared to be experienced and wasn't a obvious new player and they were OOCing another player in a very public area about how that player chose to play their character. It was very immersion breaking and was really uncalled for.

[Cale_Knight]

A couple times, I think always about sponsored roles who were acting in a way that I felt might have been detrimental to the people around them, codedly or roleplaying...ly?

[James de Monet]

I think in 14 years (on and off) I've submitted 2...maybe 3?

Not really my thing unless something seems egregious AND likely to continue/cause more problems.

[Barzalene]

Just once, about a new player who just needed a little guidance.

Twice. And both times I truly wished that there was a player comment option rather than complaint. In neither situation did I want the player punished, but I thought rather than playing RP police I'd ask the staff to assess and comment instead as they felt necessary.

(In both cases it was for something that happened repeatedly.)

[RogueGunslinger]

I've submitted a couple... maybe? I think they were for really simple things though, like players who never capitalize or something like that.

I like to think my roleplay is so good I bring up everyone around me above complaint levels.

[ShaLeah]

Once in 12 years, because a noob attacked my character, fled the guards, came back in and attacked her again. I wonder if that person is still playing, heh.

[Zoan]

I hate all of you so damned much, and the atrocious ways you all interpret the world. I throw them around freely and regularly. You assholes.

[Tuannon]

If that was my attitude I'd probably file more than I do. I usually tend to not be a perfect RPer myself, so I don't really try and enforce RP discipline on others. I tend to just avoid people I don't want to RP with.

[ShaLeah]

If that was my attitude I'd probably file more than I do. I usually tend to not be a perfect RPer myself, so I don't really try and enforce RP discipline on others. I tend to just avoid people I don't want to RP with.

Like Zoan.

I'm pretty sure if I ever played with him I'd be filing constant player complaints.

[RogueGunslinger]

If that was my attitude I'd probably file more than I do. I usually tend to not be a perfect RPer myself, so I don't really try and enforce RP discipline on others. I tend to just avoid people I don't want to RP with.

Like Zoan.

I'm pretty sure if I ever played with him I'd be filing constant player complaints.

The guy just keeps forgetting to ask for consent. Personally I like it.

[Kismetic]

None, if I recall correctly.  My roleplay isn't perfect, I've made mistakes, and I've bent the game to do what I thought was fair.  I would be a hypocrite to send in a complaint for every bitchy little roleplay mistake.  I was tempted once to send in a complaint when I watched two guys argue with OOC command for about ten minutes.  Really, dudes?  Your epeens are that hard?  (But years later, I got in trouble for using OOC too much, something I thought I'd never abuse.  Go figure.)

[BleakOne]

None from me either. I've had generally good experiences with the vast majority of the PCs I've met, and the not-so-good ones were probably for a good reason anyway.

That said, if I ever do see something that I think the staff should look into, I'll send one off.

[Zoan]

If that was my attitude I'd probably file more than I do. I usually tend to not be a perfect RPer myself, so I don't really try and enforce RP discipline on others. I tend to just avoid people I don't want to RP with.

Like Zoan.

I'm pretty sure if I ever played with him I'd be filing constant player complaints.

The guy just keeps forgetting to ask for consent. Personally I like it.

Nothing is sacred, sweet lips.

[Zoan]

More seriously, though, I used to (in recent past) throw character complaints around often, especially when in sponsored roles. It infuriated me that things wouldn't go my way (because I had a particular view). Every single time, I swear, Nyr (and before that, some lady staff member I can't remember) just told me to cut that shit out (in a really analytical, respectful way). Eventually I just stored, because I was the problem, not the solution.

Nowadays I've come to realize that so I'm a lot more easygoing. You live and learn. You're all pretty cool, honestly.

(I'm sorry, Malifaxis.)

[Fathi]

I've filed less than one per year of playing and they were almost exclusively for poor OOC behaviour. I only flile complaints in extreme circumstances, such as a guy firing a PC ingame and then going on a tirade about it with the OOC command and actually stating that the reason he fired the guy was because of the GDB. Or two people using the OOC command to have a "lol hey babe" conversation complete with emoticons while people were awkwardly standing in the room with them. I also once filed a complaint when I witnessed a high karma magicker guild abuse some pretty specific mechanics of a spell. And once when someone quit out to avoid gettin' murdered.

I also sent a complaint email to staff once upon a time when a creeper kept asking for my GDB handle via the OOC command while trying and failing to bang my character. Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, etc.

Generally I don't see the point of filing complaints about IC stuff because even if someone is being a nitwit, problems in the game tend to sort themselves out pretty quickly. I can only think of a couple instances where people severely stretched the bounds of believability and the rules with their RP and didn't just get murdered. Not to disparage people who do file complaints - to each his own, just not my personal preference.

[BadSkeelz]

I've only ever filed player complaints having to do with people taking to the GDB to complain about IG events. And even then, I've probably only filed half as many as I could have.

When I started playing, I honestly thought player complaints were strictly for reporting violations of the consent rule. I still have a rather narrow field of what's worth filing a complaint about: consent, exploits, OOC skeeviness... basically out of character behavior that's unacceptable for whatever reason.

IC events I don't really think fit the criteria a player complaint, so long as they don't also violate the above conditions. See an elf riding a mount? It's funner to make fun of that stupid sharp, may be wish up to Staff that "Hey this player may need a reminder of the docs." I like to think most people break the docs out of ignorance, not willfulness. I do have some long character reports where I complain about in-character events, but those were never about "This situation is wrong and doesn't belong in the game," just that "This situation sucks, what can I do to make it suck less for my character?"

I do encourage anyone who is feeling troubled or upset by something in game to file a complaint to bring it to staff attention. If there's something wrong that's the first step towards solving it. Even if there isn't anything rule-breaking going on, Staff have always been supportive to me and helped talk me through troubling times.

[Saellyn]

If I see an elf riding a mount I'm going to send a player complaint and just note that maybe it's a brand new player who missed that part of the docs.

[Lizzie]

Maybe if we could have a "Heads Up" category in the request tool, people wouldn't feel so awkward about submitting reports about folks who just "aren't getting it" and need a nudge in the right direction.

Leading by example is only useful when the targetted player chooses to a) notice, b) care, and c) comply. If you try to use exclusively IC methods to teach someone something, and that person just isn't getting it, and doesn't seem to care about getting it, well - they're not breaking any rules are they? Like the half-elf who is being played as someone who just flat out rejects the concept that half-elves are discriminated against. Or the human who apparently has absolutely zero idea, whatsoever, why anyone would care that he's trying to get laid with that damn fine-looking elf Kuraci Regular chick. Or the northerner who visits Allanak, meets a gemmer, and starts flirting with him and wants to know all about how he can make her fly.

Things that are so "out there" that it's obvious the player is clueless - but going OOC on them with the OOC command would just result in a whole big to-do, and keeping it IC would confuse the obviously-clueless player.

So you send a "heads up" to the staff and let them direct this player to a helper, or the help files, or give them whatever information the staff feels would be most helpful.

Because really, it's not our job as players to tell other players how to roleplay. But some of the newer players really need to be guided. Presently, a Player Complaint is the only method we have of getting this reinforced. If people are refusing to use it, because they think it's "getting someone in trouble," then what happens if no one complains about these things, and the players who are doing them, don't learn? It just makes it uncomfortable for everyone.

[RogueGunslinger]

Maybe if we could have a "Heads Up" category in the request tool, people wouldn't feel so awkward about submitting reports about folks who just "aren't getting it" and need a nudge in the right direction.

Leading by example is only useful when the targetted player chooses to a) notice, b) care, and c) comply. If you try to use exclusively IC methods to teach someone something, and that person just isn't getting it, and doesn't seem to care about getting it, well - they're not breaking any rules are they? Like the half-elf who is being played as someone who just flat out rejects the concept that half-elves are discriminated against. Or the human who apparently has absolutely zero idea, whatsoever, why anyone would care that he's trying to get laid with that damn fine-looking elf Kuraci Regular chick. Or the northerner who visits Allanak, meets a gemmer, and starts flirting with him and wants to know all about how he can make her fly.

Things that are so "out there" that it's obvious the player is clueless - but going OOC on them with the OOC command would just result in a whole big to-do, and keeping it IC would confuse the obviously-clueless player.

So you send a "heads up" to the staff and let them direct this player to a helper, or the help files, or give them whatever information the staff feels would be most helpful.

Because really, it's not our job as players to tell other players how to roleplay. But some of the newer players really need to be guided. Presently, a Player Complaint is the only method we have of getting this reinforced. If people are refusing to use it, because they think it's "getting someone in trouble," then what happens if no one complains about these things, and the players who are doing them, don't learn? It just makes it uncomfortable for everyone.

I love this idea. So many people talk about not wanting to send somethign as serious as a player complaint.

I bet more people would use it if it was "player advice" or soemthing.

[Barzalene]

I just checked and I haven't actually done a player complaint. Though I did complain about a post on the GDB.

[Delirium]

I take Fathi's approach. I've only ever filed one; and it was for something that looked extremely suspicious and resulted in rather Sudden Death.

[Malifaxis]

This whole thing made me look over my request log and realize that, no, I never actually did lodge a formal complaint about the dumb fuck who, for a year or more, consistently tried to kill the same PC I was playing over multiple different characters.

Then I realized it was because I half-way enjoyed finding new and entertaining ways to have him fucking murdered as soon as he made it blatantly obvious (as he always did) that he was about to try again.  Or surviving his attempt, THEN getting him.

I also realized that of the three total player complaints I've made, only one of them was about someone else.  But that's because I'm a shitty player and I feel the need to complain about myself in an official format.

[BleakOne]

I wonder how staff would respond to a self-complaint.

"Oh god, I'm going for another Rough Circle! SOMEBODY STOP ME!!!"

Ahem.

In all seriousness though Malifaxis, you are a cool RPer... and I'm not just saying that because your avatar scares the crap out of me.

[X-D]

I think my average is like 1 every seven years...I have done two...maybe three ever I think.

[Fujikoma]

I've only filed one player complaint. I wonder how many have been filed against me, they notify you after processing a complaint against you, right?

[Nyr]

I've only filed one player complaint. I wonder how many have been filed against me, they notify you after processing a complaint against you, right?

No.  We notify you if we feel like there's a valid complaint about something you're doing.  There have even been times where the person putting in the complaint is actually the one in error and we end up responding to it by saying "not only is the other person in the right, your complaint exposes something you are doing that is improper, please shape up on that."

[Saellyn]

I've only filed one player complaint. I wonder how many have been filed against me, they notify you after processing a complaint against you, right?

No.  We notify you if we feel like there's a valid complaint about something you're doing.  There have even been times where the person putting in the complaint is actually the one in error and we end up responding to it by saying "not only is the other person in the right, your complaint exposes something you are doing that is improper, please shape up on that."

Guilty.

[Zoan]

I've only filed one player complaint. I wonder how many have been filed against me, they notify you after processing a complaint against you, right?

No.  We notify you if we feel like there's a valid complaint about something you're doing.  There have even been times where the person putting in the complaint is actually the one in error and we end up responding to it by saying "not only is the other person in the right, your complaint exposes something you are doing that is improper, please shape up on that."

Sounds like me, I am literally the worst.

[Lizzie]

Zoan's right. I complain about him every day!

That gosh-darned Zoan....

[Fujikoma]

I complain about people complaining. You should try it, never run out of things to complain about that way.

[Zoan]

Zoan's right. I complain about him every day!

That gosh-darned Zoan....

;_;

[Is Friday]

I've filed less than 10. I can't be fucked to look it up.

Ones that I remember:
1.) Character logging out (then logging back in an hour later) to avoid pursuit.
2.) Quit out during arrest/torture scene with an OOC "F U guys, this is dumb. File a player complaint on me if you want."
3.) Some mul random charging my suped up Krathi. Nobody died, it just seemed 'tarded. Wouldn't file nowadays.
4.) Inappropriate emotes.
5.) Murdering my PC slave in a public clan location with 50+ VNPCs (training yard at morning) and then AIMing the clan Sergeant to tell him a different story about what happened.
6.) Krathi got shadowed/backstabbed in the gicker temple. My complaint was that it was kind of silly that you could follow past the GIANT FIRE WALL. Staff said they fixed it. Assassin player apparently sent in the same request, heh.
7.) Vagina rubbing in a public room.
8.) Someone hunting with training weapons.

Should have filed for:
My PC was sexually propositioned in an alley by a fellow clanmate (some touchy vagina grabby emotes). Other player asked for consent OOC and I said "Eh, no. Just fade." To which they responded "Let's just see where this leads..." and then I changed my character's reaction and beat her up IC instead.

Looking back at most of these, they were mostly for play outside of the rules or perceived behavior/something that was messed up with the code.

[Kismetic]

7.) Vagina rubbing in a public room.

Oh, the foot puns that were made ...  Good times, good times.

[Is Friday]

7.) Vagina rubbing in a public room.

Oh, the foot puns that were made ...  Good times, good times.

That wasn't even for that. hahahahahhahahaa. I just gtfo of there for that instance.

[Kismetic]

"gtfo of there" = get the foot out of there, ahahaha

[Is Friday]

"gtfo of there" = get the foot out of there, ahahaha

..... LMAO!!!!!!!

[Fujikoma]

The game really needs a few more easily accessible private rooms, or more public rooms where the rules are "either ignore it or gtfo".

Or just more apartments, where people most often seem to go to murder eachother.

Like I'm sure if you saw something gross go down in the Kuracci pleasure den you'd wonder, hey, what was I doing sitting around back here in the first place?

There's always the alleyways, suppose someone's gotta be backstab bait.

EDIT: Also, hunting with training weapons is suprisingly effective.

[Is Friday]

Consent is a pretty solid, easy to understand rule.

[Fujikoma]

Pretty solid, until someone sneaks in then bitches.

My poor (unspecified classes) eyes were burned from their sockets! My kids were watching when I went to spy on that hapless couple!

[valeria]

Two.  Once because was seriously annoyed by what I thought was repeated, twinky behavior.  Better for staff to look into it, than for me to ruin my mood.  And once because it was clear someone was a new player who did not understand the IC/OOC barrier.

[Is Friday]

The game really needs a few more easily accessible private rooms, or more public rooms where the rules are "either ignore it or gtfo".

Code Select Expand

The Giggity Room [E, U, Quit]
   This massive room is filled with the musky scent of despair and
bad grammer. The walls are stained with crayon drawings of boobs,
one poor rendition of a bushy vagina, and a big ol' cock'nballs.
At the far end of the room barred windows allow access to clerks
under their respective Complaints We Ignore signs.
A list of useful bot scripts hangs from the wall here.
A dozen finely-dressed f-me's wait patiently in line to complain.
The shaggy, decrepit man stands on a soapbox, shouting Kanye West tweets.
The poorley described man sits here, asking OOC for every female's AIM handle.
The thin woman stands here, pretending to be afk when he gets in trouble IG.
The ugly half-elf has mudsex with a blue-eyed Lirathan.
The blue-eyed Lirathan has mudsex with an ugly half-elf.

[Kismetic]

Ahahaha hahahahaha

[Nyr]

Pretty solid, until someone sneaks in then bitches.

My poor (unspecified classes) eyes were burned from their sockets! My kids were watching when I went to spy on that hapless couple!

amount of times this has actually happened:

0

0 times

[ThisIsAnAlias]

I once played with someone that was just a total OOC twink and ignored all documentation surrounding what they were supposed to be doing, and I did not file a player complaint. Looking back, I wish I had, as I would like for them not to be able to do that. I took the temporary solution of just storing the character *I* was playing, because I was getting so frustrated with them. It would have been better for me to have Staff take a look.

But other than that, I've never really felt like I've had much to complain about, but I am a pretty easygoing person and don't get my boxers all in a wad if someone does something a little weird. What I've been trying to do instead is find ways ICly that it might make sense for me to try to address something that's going on (which sometimes can't be done) if it's appropriate for my character/character's level of knowledge/intellect. The "hunting with sparring weapons" example is perfect for this sort of behavior.

But I understand a lot of these cases people were being OOCed against, and I've never had that happen to me that I know of.