Playing a Crafter

[Xiphos]

Hey everyone,

I gave up a few months ago and am trying again here. Died a few times and decided to give a crafter a go. He's probably near death at the moment (in fact I'm waiting for him to get killed) so I can start for the third time. I've learned quite a bit, but, I am confused about how to get out there and mine, or at the very least, buy raw materials and sell them. I have learned the following and have a few questions:

1) Traveling alone in the desert with nothing but a glasshacker is a bad idea. So is it even a possibility or should I focus my newbie life on other ventures?
2) I can't find any NPC merchants to sell simple weapons I make. Are there any and I am just missing them? In other MUDs, I can in a pinch to earn coin
3) How do I "learn skills/recipes"? I read the basics about crafting in the help files, but am confused as to how the skill system works having come from an entirely different skill system.
4) Are crafters even viable or should I try something else to learn more before diving into this role?

I'm enjoying trying to discover things, but the learning curve is so vast that it's keeping me from really enjoying the game. My desire to figure it out is, of course, keeping me going (I'm not an instant satisfaction gamer) but could use a bit of pointing in the right direction.Thanks!

[FantasyWriter]

Hey everyone,

I gave up a few months ago and am trying again here. Died a few times and decided to give a crafter a go. He's probably near death at the moment (in fact I'm waiting for him to get killed) so I can start for the third time. I've learned quite a bit, but, I am confused about how to get out there and mine, or at the very least, buy raw materials and sell them. I have learned the following and have a few questions:

1) Traveling alone in the desert with nothing but a glasshacker is a bad idea. So is it even a possibility or should I focus my newbie life on other ventures?
2) I can't find any NPC merchants to sell simple weapons I make. Are there any and I am just missing them? In other MUDs, I can in a pinch to earn coin
3) How do I "learn skills/recipes"? I read the basics about crafting in the help files, but am confused as to how the skill system works having come from an entirely different skill system.
4) Are crafters even viable or should I try something else to learn more before diving into this role?

I'm enjoying trying to discover things, but the learning curve is so vast that it's keeping me from really enjoying the game. My desire to figure it out is, of course, keeping me going (I'm not an instant satisfaction gamer) but could use a bit of pointing in the right direction.Thanks!

1) If you want to play a grebber (what we call people who gather items from the wilderness such as food, stone, wood, salt,spice) it will greatly help finding a PC or group of PCs to join up with that can teach you where and how to find these thing.  The "forage" command is usually the answer.  Glasshackers are only useful in certain areas where there are deposits of obsidian, clear class, or in a few cases stone to mine. There rooms are not common or very easy to find on your own.
2) Yes, generally shops will buy the same type of items that they sell (weapons/armor/raw material/clothing/etc). Some shops, however do not buy them at all.  The maps in the helpfiles will be somewhat helpful, and a player helper in the helperchat may be able to help you find an appropriate shop, or at least lead you in the right direction.
3) You learn new skills by branching from your existing skills (this usually happens just before you master your existing skill). You learn recipes from the helpfiles, trial and error experimentation with raw materials, analyzing existing items in game, or from other character.
4) Yes, yes, yes. Crafters, primarially merchants who can eventually mastercraft new items, are some of the most valuable characters in the world for many reasons, and they tend to live longer than combat roles if you don't make a habit of pissing off the wrong people.

I highly encourage you to hit up our player helpers through the chat link on the main website. THey are volunteers who are willing and happy to answer any and all of your questions in real time, and can help you on a more personal level without revealing who your character is this public forum.

[ShaLeah]

My best advice is to join a clan. To devote your time to learning it under a mentor. The crafting system is so vast that it can be overwhelming. A House will afford you all kinds of training, not just in the mercantile arts.

[boog]

If you get him, y'all better be nice. (He's one of my newbies!)

I'll send you an email to try to help you out, dude!

[Lizzie]

Most of what you're asking is available in the helpfiles. However, knowing which helpfiles to check, can be a lesson in frustration if you're brand new *and* have a good knowledge of a totally different system. New folks who've never experienced a crafting system before - would likely have it easier than you because they have nothing to "unlearn."

So -

Glasshackerish stuff: first off, syntax is "hold glasshacker" (you have to have both hands free for that particular tool, it's a 2-handed tool and wield, hold, ep, es, and etwo will result in the same "you hold the glasshacker with both hands." Then, "use glasshacker deposit" would be the typical syntax, assuming you are in a room where you actually see a deposit. It would be a separate line in the room description, like "a cloudy infusion of glass is here" and if you try to pick up the infusion, you can't. That's how you know it's a deposit, if it doesn't actually have the word deposit in the description.

Where to sell stuff: The shopping districts. To get into buildings that say something like "In the northeastern corner, a tent is raised, the stench of tanning fluid escaping from the roof" - "enter tent" is how you get in, and "leave" without argument is how you get out. If there is no building you can enter/leave, then it's just letting you know that the room immediately "west" or "up" or whatever is where the building is. Building entrances/exits are not consistent in Armageddon. It's not a complaint, personally I like it this way. It breaks things up and gives the player the impression that he's fulfilling his "explorer mode" needs

In the shops, the syntax I would use for trying to sell a blackened, bone-bladed knife:
get bone.knife pack
offer knife (and the shopkeeper says, "I think that knife is worth 20 sids")
offer knife 35 (and the shopkeeper says, "I'll give you 23 sids."
offer knife 30 (and the shopkeeper says, "Let's keep it at 23 sids.")
barter (and the shopkeeper gives you 23 sids and takes your knife)
If you're in a shop that doesn't buy that particular item, the shopkeeper will tell you when you first offer the item.
If you tried to barter more than the shopkeeper feels is acceptable, he'll tell you he doesn't want your business, and you'll have to wait at least a game-day before he'll do business with you again. Example of too much haggling:
offer knife (he says it's worth 20)
offer knife 100 (you want 5x what he thinks it's worth - if you've ever been to a garage sale, you know how that's gonna work out)
offer knife 35 - four times in a row (he didn't like that number the first 3 times - you're outta there!)

Crafting system, the tl;dr version:
1) commands you will find useful
assess -v (to see what a thing can be used for, as in tools, armor, weapons, decorative)
analyze (to see what a finished product is made of, assuming you have the skill to make it)
value (to see 1) how much is it worth 2) approx. how heavy is it 3) if it's an exclusive design of a specific clan*
hold/wield/ep/es (to hold tools in one or the other hand)
craft [item] (to find out if you have the skill to do something with a raw material - it'll give you a list)
craft [item1] [item2] [item3] (since you can combine certain items to make more complex finished products)
craft [item] into [finished product] (once you know that yes, you can do something with this item, and try to make it)
craft [item1] [item2] [item3] into [finished product] (because some finished products need more than one material to make them)
list (when you're in a shop, if you're trying to come up with ideas of things to craft, or raw materials to work with; seeing what's available in shops can be incredibly useful even if you aren't actually buying something)
view #7 - this tells the game your character wants information of item #7 on the "list" of the shopkeeper's inventory. You'll get a main description, and some assess -v and value information.
list dwarf blue - will list all items that the dwarven NPC shopkeeper is carrying that contains the word "blue" as a keyword or in its sdesc. Great if you're a tailor who inherited a dozen packets of blue dye and you want some ideas of what you can do with them, as an example
*If you "value" a finished product and see the line "This seems to be made by House Kadius" or something similar - it means that only crafters in that clan can actually make the item. So if you're not in that clan, you won't be able to make it.

Learning more stuff: If you can make wood trinkets presently, you'll sometimes (or often) fail in your attempts. Eventually, you'll fail less and less often, and understand the intricacies of wood more and more. And one day, you'll type "skills" or "skills crafting" - and you'll notice there's boxmaking on your skills list (that's not an actual coded skill name, this is hypothetical because it's not good to post "skill tree info" on the GDB ). This means you've "branched" a new skill. Or, you'll be working with wood one day, and type "craft log" and notice you can suddenly make stuff now, that you couldn't make five minutes ago. This means you've improved your skill.


4) are crafters viable? Hell yes. Codedly, they're very viable. If your character persues a career in one of the GMHs, he can become very successful, codedly. Will you enjoy your character's success? Only if you roleplay his existence and give him the full 3-dimensional treatment. A craft-bot could last years, but no one else will care, and you won't have fun. When you bring your character to life, and use crafting as one of several methods of doing that - that's when you have fun.

[long live miley cyrus]

There are particular crafting niches which are not workable in the game, usually outside the two cities in smaller areas that are meant to be less convenient in a bunch of ways. I think this is more of an example of staff not being concerned with making every single crafting skill a livable workday in every area, rather than an example of smalltown inconvenience, though. Just something to keep in mind in case your current dies and you want another crafter.

[FantasyWriter]

There are particular crafting niches which are not workable in the game, usually outside the two cities in smaller areas that are meant to be less convenient in a bunch of ways. I think this is more of an example of staff not being concerned with making every single crafting skill a livable workday in every area, rather than an example of smalltown inconvenience, though. Just something to keep in mind in case your current dies and you want another crafter.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. A merchant class PC can flourish in any of the civilizations that have helpfiles. (not to mention they get a heftier starting purse to help out).
If you are talking about playing PCs who only have a normal crafting subguild to draw those crafting skills, you only need to make sure that you chose a crafting subguild that draws from the raw materials available in the nearby area (i.e: Don't try to play a woodcarver in Allanak, if you want a PC that is going to be successful early on without clan support.

[Kronibas]

Crafters can definitely be extremely viable/indispensable characters, but I think they aren't very fun unless they join a clan or otherwise establish a network of helpers, which is almost like a quasi clan, anyway.


By their nature and design, crafters - merchants, really - have the ability to affect the game world in ways that a 100 day played warrior never could imagine.  From "help merchant":

Merchants are the blood which binds the world together

If you choose a crafting subguild, I think you should be prepared for it to be challenging to rely exclusively on those subguild skills for fun/survival, though it's surely possible.  I'd recommend joining a clan and working on those crafting skills as a supplement or something to fall back on when your character is stronger and has a better chance of surviving outside the gates.

[whitt]

Crafters can definitely be extremely viable/indispensable characters, but I think they aren't very fun unless they join a clan or otherwise establish a network of helpers, which is almost like a quasi clan, anyway.

This.  The most boring crafter is the crafter that doesn't need anyone else to get their stuff done.  Even if you can do everything, find an excuse to have someone else do your errand running, material grebbing, and selling of detritus.  It gives yourself IC relationships and gives other players something to do as an added bonus.

[long live miley cyrus]

There are particular crafting niches which are not workable in the game, usually outside the two cities in smaller areas that are meant to be less convenient in a bunch of ways. I think this is more of an example of staff not being concerned with making every single crafting skill a livable workday in every area, rather than an example of smalltown inconvenience, though. Just something to keep in mind in case your current dies and you want another crafter.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. A merchant class PC can flourish in any of the civilizations that have helpfiles. (not to mention they get a heftier starting purse to help out).
If you are talking about playing PCs who only have a normal crafting subguild to draw those crafting skills, you only need to make sure that you chose a crafting subguild that draws from the raw materials available in the nearby area (i.e: Don't try to play a woodcarver in Allanak, if you want a PC that is going to be successful early on without clan support.

I was talking about people who only do trading/crafting for a living, and without the constant support of a clan or other pcs, with craft skills that the area you're living in doesn't support. To be honest, I've never been able to make an unbranched merchant class/no craft subguild work solely as an indie crafter outside of Tuluk, and waiting to branch while sticking to the assumption that you are a 100% (unworkable) crafter is a dangerous game. For a subguild, some things that a newbie might see as workable may not be able to work for a pc with the existing code. For example there's echoes and mdescs of crafting halls in Red Storm, which suggest more than armor and clothing is being made. A newbie decides they want to make a jewelry crafter in Red Storm, and discovers that they can't survive on it. I was talking about stuff like that.

[Harmless]

Picking a crafting subguild is a fun option sometimes. You need to think about the limitations strongly, though... the worst thing that might happen is you picked a crafting subguild, then play the character as a crafter so heavily that you end up really wishing you had just made them a merchant.

A crafting subguild is far less likely to be useful to other players as a merchant, because one set of crafting skills can only be useful some of the time. Therefore, I usually think of a crafting subguild as a way for me to sustain my PCs in a solo way, less than a support skill for other players.

Some exceptions apply. For instance, the physician subguild is very useful, as bandage is a great support skill for combatants, and everyone can use cures, plus brew is a fun skill overall. The forester subguild gives you handy outdoorsman skills, such as hunt and direction sense. The hunter subguild allows you a single craft, arrowmaking, which is one of the most requested crafts when I play merchants anyway, and again, great survival skills. Armormaker is a good subguild if you want to support PCs but not play a merchant, but it gives you no other skills to play with for survival, so you may end up not being outdoorsy with that PC at all and not having many interesting things to craft.

On the whole, I think all the basic subguilds are balanced as is. But, keep in mind how you plan to play the PC when deciding on merchant vs. a crafting subguild; do you want to be mostly in taverns, talking or in an apartment or work area crafting? Probably should just go for merchant then, since you'll have plenty to work with and will almost always be helpful for other players.

[boog]

Y'all, he's super new. Like... super new, inundated with information new!

[Harmless]

Sorry.

I get excited sometimes.