Tuluki Population

[Narf]

...The response is that they want to play in Tuluk exactly like they play in Allanak without a whole lot of adjustment...

I don't think attempts to play less subtle, grittier, dare I say "Alanakish" characters should be entirely shut down in Tuluk. I think there should be a place for a little bit of that style of play; And that place is the Warrens.

I tend to prefer rping southernish types of characters, and as a result all but one of my Tuluki characters in the last five years have been from the warrens. They're not quite as 'in your face' crude as their southern counterparts were, but they certainly weren't high brow and their subtlety was limited. And every time people would point out how bad a northerner they were I'd just respond that I grew up in the warrens, and that was the end of the discussion. Playing them as a contrast to proper and subtle actually ended up making them /more/ fun than if I'd played the same character in Alanak because they generated conflict just by being themselves in a place that was innately hostile to that sort of thing.

So for those of you that want to play gritty characters, you might just consider trying out a warrens-brat and see if you don't actually have more fun. Nothing brings out the dirt better than throwing it in a pile of silks.

[LauraMars]

Tuluk is not Allanak, it never will be. However, Tuluk has the potential to be every single bit as dynamic and gritty as Allanak. It's what you, the player, make it, that effects exactly what type of experience you'll have.

Sure.  Keep in mind that I'm not saying Tuluk is a bad city.  I like it - it's got a lot of interesting ideas.  It's also one of the funnest places to emote in and write descriptions for because everything is so lovely.

I just think the general consensus is that there's less conflict in Tuluk, or that more people in Tuluk will be predisposed to avoid conflict, or like avoiding conflict, or whatever.  People are throwing around ideas of why that might be.

[Nyr]

As my whole post pointed out - it's players and its staff. Guarded, reserved, unwelcoming. That is the reputation - I am not saying at all that it is that way in reality. (Since I havn't played in Tuluk in a while.)

Your whole post didn't point that out, you only did now.  So you don't like its players or its staff because they are "guarded, reserved, and unwelcoming." That's pretty broad, anything in particular that you can point to that can be reviewed?

No. If a majority of players prefer Allanak, and more resources are wasted on Tuluk - you don't see the problem? You admited yourself, Allanak isn't broken - needs less maintence and has a larger playerbase. Am I stuttering here?

You aren't stuttering, but you aren't making much sense to me.  Your point seems to be that a majority of people like Allanak more than Tuluk, so Tuluki staff should not "waste" time and energy on Tuluk that is going to be spent on it anyway (because each area is going to have staff assigned to it).  You're also disregarding any and all work that has been done by the Allanak team (new Dragon temple, new elementalist stuff, new rinth stuff, documentation work, etc--probably more that I am not as familiar with), which probably isn't giving the best vibes to that team.

But you could still load up the senate floor every other month, put on a show for all the noble house employees and nobles - give them an insight and rumormill for what is going on behind the scene. Expand the world to something larger. I am sure it wouldn't take you long to write up a script for a senate floor hearing? Have a few staffers man some NPCs and act it all out. Giving everyone who watched the senate meeting something to gossip and angle about. Fuck, it's a god damn excellent idea. Houses would take the public senate days to air out certain shit they want to be gossiped about and so on..

Senate and Triumvirate meetings in Zalanthas are the kinds of things that the in-game administrations would adore and relish.  House of Cards, except in Zalanthas!  And procedural stuff that in general happens on a regular basis that would be kind of boring!  Yet it affects so much, so it would be interesting!

What does that affect on the PC level?  We've got these junior nobles coming in to something that is way, way, way over their heads.  I'm not sure why noble house employees would be there but let's say they were for the sake of involving them in the shenanigans.  What shenanigans, exactly?  They have no say in what happens.  They can't even add to the overall event.  If they step out of line or act the fool, they'd be killed, no?  That kind of thing wouldn't fly, so no, they just observe and have internal RP.  In short, they are watching staff TV:  staff set up a script and animate over a dozen different NPCs.  On the business end of the animation, we probably won't have a dozen different staffers to do this.  Hell, the last time there was an animated Triumvirate session, there were (maybe) two staffers doing it all, and it took a couple of hours from start to finish (with even more time spent planning out the dialogue/emotes/etc.).

While these meetings in Zalanthas are exciting for upper-crust Zalanthans and exciting for players lucky enough and privileged enough to be able to attend (whether or not this makes sense)...it is over the top in terms of staff effort vs player benefit.  That is not to say it won't ever happen again, it is just an indication of how much work is involved in doing this kind of animation--so much work that it may well be unmanageable the majority of the time.  It is easier and more efficient for us to relay the results of those meetings if they are relevant to anything ongoing.  The player may miss out on an exclusive scenario, but the end result is the same:  they know what happened in the meeting as far as it applies to their noble.

Also hinting at who I play, Nyr, even subtley - ain't cool.

I haven't hinted at who you play.  I said you played one Tuluki for a week.  I didn't say when.  It is incredibly doubtful that anyone would know who I'm talking about by me saying "you played a Tuluki for a week."

[LittleLady]

Tuluk is not Allanak, it never will be. However, Tuluk has the potential to be every single bit as dynamic and gritty as Allanak. It's what you, the player, make it, that effects exactly what type of experience you'll have.

Sure.  Keep in mind that I'm not saying Tuluk is a bad city.  I like it - it's got a lot of interesting ideas.  It's also one of the funnest places to emote in and write descriptions for because everything is so lovely.

I just think the general consensus is that there's less conflict in Tuluk, or that more people in Tuluk will be predisposed to avoid conflict, or like avoiding conflict, or whatever.  People are throwing around ideas of why that might be.

I think that there is less conflict in Tuluk, but the notion that the people who play in Tuluk desire less conflict or like avoiding it is very false. Conflict is there. The tensions required for conflict to quickly flare up is there... and, personally, I don't think it would take a very big push to spark it off.

In general, I think that people who don't normally play in Tuluk should give it an honest shot. Get past that adjustment period of playing something out of the norm, and see if they can't make a good go of the same concepts they would play elsewhere (if not in a slightly different way).

[Voular]

Your whole post didn't point that out, you only did now.  So you don't like its players or its staff because they are "guarded, reserved, and unwelcoming." That's pretty broad, anything in particular that you can point to that can be reviewed?

I have no idea what it is all about, Nyr - it's the god damn rumor and vibe of it that I pick up from the forums.

You aren't stuttering, but you aren't making much sense to me.  Your point seems to be that a majority of people like Allanak more than Tuluk, so Tuluki staff should not "waste" time and energy on Tuluk that is going to be spent on it anyway (because each area is going to have staff assigned to it).  You're also disregarding any and all work that has been done by the Allanak team (new Dragon temple, new elementalist stuff, new rinth stuff, documentation work, etc--probably more that I am not as familiar with), which probably isn't giving the best vibes to that team.

Don't imply either that I am down-putting the Allanaki's teams work. The 'rinth rework was awesome, the temple is cool, the gemmed quarter is/was however long overdue and took way longer that it should have - but that is neither here nor there. My post is yes, more people play in Allanak and HISTORICALLY it has gotten less work done that Tuluk has. Tuluk has had whole areas built up and razed (undertuluk?) while Allanak has recently gotten a minor facelift in areas accessible only by a minority of its players. Compaertively the overt work put into both are not equal, nor have they ever been. It doesn't mean that the efforts of the recent changes or the staff that staffed or are staffing Allanak isn't kank fucking awesome - because obviously it god damn is.

While these meetings in Zalanthas are exciting for upper-crust Zalanthans and exciting for players lucky enough and privileged enough to be able to attend (whether or not this makes sense)...it is over the top in terms of staff effort vs player benefit.  That is not to say it won't ever happen again, it is just an indication of how much work is involved in doing this kind of animation--so much work that it may well be unmanageable the majority of the time.  It is easier and more efficient for us to relay the results of those meetings if they are relevant to anything ongoing.  The player may miss out on an exclusive scenario, but the end result is the same:  they know what happened in the meeting as far as it applies to their noble.

Dude. The effort you take to reply on the forums, even while you are at uni or whatever - I am sure you could whip up a whole forty minute script of senate bullshit for players to marvel at. Have Morgenes setup it a script to play it out and roll the tape? You know it can be done cleverly. You don't actually have to possess fifteen NPCs and use the code. Especially if it's for onlookers.

I haven't hinted at who you play.  I said you played one Tuluki for a week.  I didn't say when.  It is incredibly doubtful that anyone would know who I'm talking about by me saying "you played a Tuluki for a week."

It can use some love (and it has gotten it, not sure how you've missed the building work), but it's more of a tender loving care thing rather than a full frontal lobotomy and colorectal cleanse.

If you don't realize your mistake there, leave it and don't censor it and your post. I am sure no one is smart enough to catch it at all.

[Dresan]

I think one of the reasons that I'm not playing in tuluk as much is that I felt there was some official crime but any unofficial crime was almost always in the process of being brutally stomped out.  


Now this is my perception, opinion, whatever and thus could be wrong or might have changed but its still how I felt last I played there. Not to say I wouldn't play in tuluk again, just that if I do it will just be to make an indy hunter to idle with. Just be a random no name hunter that wanders around, be just another face in the crowd until i think of something better to do. I do enjoy those aimless roles though.

[Barsook]

I think the real problem is I have scoured the markets and taverns in search of tea and found it lacking. I think there's more tea in Allanak!

Then again, perhaps when I get the chance I should look a little closer.

Lacking in tea? Just go pick some plants and make your own tea... Hmmm tea.......

Yeah, but the items (pots and cups) to make tea are in Allanak, not Tuluk.  And that makes no sense.  Though, a PC in Tuluk can try to change that.

[KankWhisperer]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

[Drayab]

I've played quite a lot in Tuluk, but I'm playing in Allanak at the moment. Around this time last year, Tuluk was really hopping. It is worth repeating that population rises and falls cyclically. My next character will likely be a Tuluki. All the changes lately do make me a bit anxious, yes, but if they don't work out, staff will no doubt try something else.

If memory serves, you used to be able to buy a teapot in the Red Sun Commons, but that fellow got washed away in the Deluge. Somebody ought to add a teapot to the standard stock in the Kadian luxury shop.

[Fujikoma]

OH! And spice hookahs.

[Nyr]

Your whole post didn't point that out, you only did now.  So you don't like its players or its staff because they are "guarded, reserved, and unwelcoming." That's pretty broad, anything in particular that you can point to that can be reviewed?

I have no idea what it is all about, Nyr - it's the god damn rumor and vibe of it that I pick up from the forums.

OK.  So nothing that can be directly addressed at all, just vague stuff...just making sure we're on the same page.  I'm afraid I can't help you at all with Tuluk if you don't have anything concrete to address.  I even wrote up one or two detailed responses and you jumped right past them into incoherent complaints.

You aren't stuttering, but you aren't making much sense to me.  Your point seems to be that a majority of people like Allanak more than Tuluk, so Tuluki staff should not "waste" time and energy on Tuluk that is going to be spent on it anyway (because each area is going to have staff assigned to it).  You're also disregarding any and all work that has been done by the Allanak team (new Dragon temple, new elementalist stuff, new rinth stuff, documentation work, etc--probably more that I am not as familiar with), which probably isn't giving the best vibes to that team.

Don't imply either that I am down-putting the Allanaki's teams work.

Ok, I'll just--

The 'rinth rework was awesome, the temple is cool, the gemmed quarter is/was however long overdue and took way longer that it should have

--do my best to not point out how annoying this comes off, but I'm afraid I'll have to say something about it.  You are acting here as though you are entitled to timely work on areas of your choice by any staff that you wish--all of this on a free game staffed by volunteers.  I don't know what bug crawled up your butt today, but your pithy whining about Southern staff is out of line and inappropriate.  Take it to the request tool in a professional manner if you have something legitimate to bring up with Allanaki staff (as Welda indicated above)...but if it's all going to be whining about how the Northlands team is reworking Tuluk and the Southlands team isn't doing what you want it to do, save yourself the trouble.

Tuluk sucks in some ways, but we're fixing it, and that makes you mad because of the amount of work involved in fixing it.  It also makes you mad that Tuluk has had previous work done on it (that in retrospect has had hit-or-miss success, which is why we've taken a broader view than any of those previous times).  Vast conspiracy?  No.  Just a matter of fixing things.

Allanak rocks, and Allanaki staff isn't forced to go to the extremes that we are, and that makes you mad because they don't have to do the same amount of work as northlands staff.  Vast conspiracy?  No.  Just a matter of not having to go to those extremes and instead being able to work on improvements...which they are...as indicated (and more besides).

I'm sorry.  That's just how it is.  The changes and additions to Allanak aren't as widespread and world-affecting because Allanak isn't in such bad shape.  If you believe it is, please address that appropriately with southern staff.

Dude. The effort you take to reply on the forums, even while you are at uni or whatever - I am sure you could whip up a whole forty minute script of senate bullshit for players to marvel at. Have Morgenes setup it a script to play it out and roll the tape? You know it can be done cleverly. You don't actually have to possess fifteen NPCs and use the code. Especially if it's for onlookers.

Apparently, it's not enough that I'm working on Tuluk (which is obviously not your cup of tea for reasons you are unclear about) and requested a thread to discuss...Tuluk...with players that might be interested in playing there, hoping to address problems.  You've gone farther than discussing Tuluk (which you've barely done).  You're now just whinging about Allanak--again, in a thread about Tuluk--and now you want me to script up things that don't matter...for PCs that don't need it...in an area of the game I don't administrate.  I would suggest making your own thread about your issues that you have with Allanak provided you can do so without coming off in an entitled fashion.

If you don't realize your mistake there, leave it and don't censor it and your post. I am sure no one is smart enough to catch it at all.

All of the things I mentioned are either on the GDB, the weekly update tool, or on the in-game boards.  I wasn't sure how you'd miss it given the saturation.  I guess now you're saying that you play an Allanaki and I've revealed your secret?  OK, sorry about that.

You're grasping at things to be angry about now.  Please just step away from the GDB and take a break.

[solera]

Wild Swans by Jung Chang. I think of this book when I'm pondering on where I'd like to take Tuluk. The story of three generations of Chinese women starts with the brutality of the Warlords generations (how many centuries was that?) . The life of the serf seemed more brutalized and oppressed than anything I've seen in Allanak- it made Melenths seem like a picnic spot. Families clawed their way upwards by the fortune and favour of their immediate superiors or mentors.
The book passed on through the Japanese occupation (more brutality oppression, and information gathering) to the Revolution where the ideas of freedom to live as a human became accessible to the masses.
I like the feel of the next period under Madame Mao, when the liberals were routed. Very Xenophobic, very very Political Correct, particularly the relationships of neighbours. Winning favours/survival by sniffing out Incorrectness amongst your nearest and dearest. I'm not suggesting disappearances on that scale (!) and I don't know if we could achieve that atmosphere amongst PC's. I played Atonement on the last ship and that was an extremely claustrophobic, Politically Correct environment that  made me wonder if I could experience something similar in the Ivory.

In checking on Wild Swans wiki I noticed this quote from the book.

The Chinese seemed to be [not be] mourning Mao [nobody] in a heartfelt fashion. But I wondered how many of their tears [absence of tears] were genuine. People had practiced acting to such a degree that they confused it with their true feelings. Weeping for Mao [Not weeping for Nobody] was perhaps just another programmed act in their programmed lives.[5]

[Nyr]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

[Nyr]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

Not one, not two, but three teapots available where you folks were looking for it.  That "dude in the commons" for the win (he looks exactly like the kind of guy that would sell you pot).

Hookahs...well, there's one House you can always go to to find them.  I dunno that it is as necessary an item as tea since you can sniff or smoke spice without a hookah.

[palomar]

City-state PC population fluctuates. In the semi-short term I think it'll help once the reworked documentation is in place, and leader PCs (templars, nobles and others) get to work with said docs and non-leaders find new, interesting ways to fit in and have fun. A political scene that is more dynamic will hopefully emerge. Established leader PCs on all levels will always help to draw in fresh blood. Tuluk is going through a shift in more than one way, as previously described in this thread and others. While going through such changes has a certain appeal to some players, I'm sure it is also keeping some away (concerns over nobility opportunities, how the Artist system will work, what the "barricades" will come to mean and so on). Also, as someone mentioned, Tuluk has a few more moving parts than Allanak and when some are lacking (no bards, no established nobles etc), the city as an area of play can sometimes feel lacking/empty whatever the actual numbers say.

[Barsook]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

Not one, not two, but three teapots available where you folks were looking for it.  That "dude in the commons" for the win (he looks exactly like the kind of guy that would sell you pot).

Hookahs...well, there's one House you can always go to to find them.  I dunno that it is as necessary an item as tea since you can sniff or smoke spice without a hookah.

Thanks Nyr, but I think tea is still a roleplay prop.  The Tea culture is not doc'd yet for the Known, I think it should, but I think I am be derailing this thread.  So, is it okay if I make a new thread about tea and the Known?  Or is it still a "Find out IC" thing.

[long live miley cyrus]

The 'rinth rework was awesome, the temple is cool, the gemmed quarter is/was however long overdue and took way longer that it should have

--do my best to not point out how annoying this comes off, but I'm afraid I'll have to say something about it.

I was going to say something about this too but, uh, well. I was going to say that coded change of that scope takes an assload of time, and like Nyr pointed out these staff members are taking a lot of their own time to try to improve an incredibly complex game for better OOC management and IC enjoyment. To be honest? The gemmed quarter change didn't seem totally necessary. It looked more like something staff was trying to do to improve the game for gemmed mages, who seem to barely exceed elves in numbers. Until this thread I honestly thought it was just a result of a super secret plot.

Just for a barely relevant example, the Quest program can be downloaded for free from the internet, and lets you make text games, either I'm stupid at it or the complexity of games made with Quest compared to Arm is like compared a handful of peanuts to a cherry pie.

You might really be interested in making a Quest game too. You just might. You will work for a dozen hours on it. And you will not finish it, unless its a shit game with four rooms, six objects and two people. The program even takes care of most of the coded parts for you. But you're not going to finish it unless you want to work on it for at least a month. Its not a really good perspective for looking at Arm coding, but its the only one I have.

In checking on Wild Swans wiki I noticed this quote from the book.

The Chinese seemed to be [not be] mourning Mao [nobody] in a heartfelt fashion. But I wondered how many of their tears [absence of tears] were genuine. People had practiced acting to such a degree that they confused it with their true feelings. Weeping for Mao [Not weeping for Nobody] was perhaps just another programmed act in their programmed lives.[5]

If this becomes even 20% of Tuluk's atmosphere I may just have a new favorite place to play.

I know I don't play there much, but that's because I like (other places) more. Its not a matter of 1st, 2nd and 6th place, but 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Other player's concerns about unofficial crime stifling make me leery because I know what its like to be a low-end, low-threat criminal hunted ruthlessly by soldiers who have forgotten that metagaming lies within us all, but I've always hoped that this was a rare occurrence. But the way Tuluki crime is set up, where templars knowing about unofficial crime genuinely believe that the culprit owes them a minimum of several small, I don't know. It looks easier to mess up to me.

[KankWhisperer]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

Not one, not two, but three teapots available where you folks were looking for it.  That "dude in the commons" for the win (he looks exactly like the kind of guy that would sell you pot).

Hookahs...well, there's one House you can always go to to find them.  I dunno that it is as necessary an item as tea since you can sniff or smoke spice without a hookah.

I'm pretty familiar with most shop NPCs and spent maybe an hour or two here and there looking. Offered coins if others knew where. Tried to buy one from Kadius. If it is there maybe not too obvious or with two NPCs stacked and missed it. Limited supply?

[solera]

In checking on Wild Swans wiki I noticed this quote from the book.

The Chinese seemed to be [not be] mourning Mao [nobody] in a heartfelt fashion. But I wondered how many of their tears [absence of tears] were genuine. People had practiced acting to such a degree that they confused it with their true feelings. Weeping for Mao [Not weeping for Nobody] was perhaps just another programmed act in their programmed lives.[5]

If this becomes even 20% of Tuluk's atmosphere I may just have a new favorite place to play.

This caught my eye because it was exactly the experience of one of my past PC's.  It was a hard to hide disappearance, everyday ones may be too subtle unless we have a master level Scan, unfortunately.  

[Barsook]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

Not one, not two, but three teapots available where you folks were looking for it.  That "dude in the commons" for the win (he looks exactly like the kind of guy that would sell you pot).

Hookahs...well, there's one House you can always go to to find them.  I dunno that it is as necessary an item as tea since you can sniff or smoke spice without a hookah.

I'm pretty familiar with most shop NPCs and spent maybe an hour or two here and there looking. Offered coins if others knew where. Tried to buy one from Kadius. If it is there maybe not too obvious or with two NPCs stacked and missed it. Limited supply?

One of my PC's tried to get a teapot from Kadius but no luck.

[Nyr]

Agreed. Finding a teapot shouldn't be an ordeal.

I'll check into it.

Not one, not two, but three teapots available where you folks were looking for it.  That "dude in the commons" for the win (he looks exactly like the kind of guy that would sell you pot).

Hookahs...well, there's one House you can always go to to find them.  I dunno that it is as necessary an item as tea since you can sniff or smoke spice without a hookah.

I'm pretty familiar with most shop NPCs and spent maybe an hour or two here and there looking. Offered coins if others knew where. Tried to buy one from Kadius. If it is there maybe not too obvious or with two NPCs stacked and missed it. Limited supply?

One of my PC's tried to get a teapot from Kadius but no luck.

It is the dude in the commons.

[Barsook]

Ah, thank you.

[Scarecrow]

I would like to comment on the gemmed quarter thing. There is perfectly good IC reasons for why things are being done how they are, and it seems kinda rude to complain it isn't getting done soon enough. I'm not trying to be mean or hostile, but Voular you tend to come off seeming really entitled and pointlessly argumentative. I say this only because if you want folks to listen to you, best way is to be more moderate and negotiable.

[williamson]

What is it that you find intimidating about Tuluk?  What makes you hesitant?

I'll preface my post by saying I'm not currently very familiar with Tuluk. I haven't played a character that set foot in Tuluk since 2012. Obviously, a lot has changed...

Initially, I played almost primarily in Tuluk for many years. It was my favorite city. My opinion began to change following the end of the Allanaki Empire plot and the liberation of Tuluk. I always hear players saying on the GDB that Tuluk is an easy place to live. I disagree with this. Perhaps it's because most of my characters are killed by PCs and not NPC "monsters". Frequently, my adversaries were PC templars. In the past, I've found that Allanaki templars were more likely to be corrupt and more likely to deal out punishment that your character survived. Tuluki templars wouldn't take bribes or accept promises of service. Instead, I always ended up on the wrong end of the executioner's axe. I tried playing on the other side by serving as a templar's cohort. I played as a spy and an assassin for a templar. Eventually, I was given the task of executing an Allanaki noble. After months of planning, I finally assassinated the noble and returned to Tuluk expecting my promised reward. Instead, I got executed again. These deaths left a sour taste in my mouth and I started playing more in Allanak. I had more fun and stayed there. To stress my point that it's actually easier to survive in Allanak than Tuluk, consider this. If you play a rogue magicker in Tuluk and you get caught, you get executed. If you play the same character in Allanak and you get caught, you can beg to take the gem and live on to continue your character's story with a new twist. Consider a nonmagickal criminal, there's really nowhere to hide in Tuluk if you end up being wanted. In Allanak, you can escape to the labyrinth and live to steal another day. If you want to play a raider around Alllanak, you can live in Red Storm. There's no equivalent place like this near Tuluk. If you tried playing a raider in Luir's, it wouldn't take long for the PC templars and nobles of Tuluk to bribe a PC Kuraci and you'd be dead. I think the difficulty of playing an anti-Tuluki character based in the north predisposes everyone to work together. Thus the primary great advisary of many Tuluki PCs becomes a bahamet, a group of kryl, or a group of independent hunters/crafters quickly crushed under the boot of a GMH via templarate executions. I've only played Allanaki templars, so I've never read the Tuluki templar documents. Maybe the docs say you can't be corrupt and exectution is supose to be the primary form of punishment? Maybe I just got unlucky with my small sample size of characters? I don't know. The result was me playing more characters in Allanak.

However.... A lot has changed in Tuluk. I find a lot of these changes very interesting. The tattoos, the shadow artists, the barricades, and Nyr's post about House Dasari have all peaked my interest. I have plans to play several of my next characters in Tuluk. With the recent changes and my time of absence, I think I'll find Tuluk quite fun and exciting. Pretty soon, there will be a net increase in the Tuluki player base by one. Maybe I'll see you there?

[Twilight]

When did Tuluk start getting referred to as Orwellian?  I can only remember it happening in the last year or so?  The term just comes with so much baggage, and now that staff are using it, changes my perception of what the new Tuluk was supposed to be at inception.

Not sure I like it, I dislike the 1984 setting as I never felt that it was realistic at all.