Tuluki Population

[Desertman]

Seriously, if you have nothing to add but vague assertions that you know something is a problem and even admit you could be full of crap, you aren't trying to help.

In that case, I am right, I leave absolutely no avenue open for the idea that I could ever possibly be wrong. I lack the ability to admit I could even potentially be incorrect. Furthermore, anyone who questions my authority on this topic is laughable, and they probably like sugar free Jello.

I believe barricades that limit your ability to live in Tuluk if you aren't inked there has limited people's ability to live in Tuluk, and thus, less people are living in Tuluk.

I hope that wasn't too IC, as I think they are probably common knowledge at this point for most of the playerbase, but, I was pretty much badgered into making the thread.

That aside, if anyone would like to discuss this change, or other things related to helping out Tuluk's population, here is a thread for it. But, keep in mind, I am not full of crap, and I am not wrong.

(I can't be that much of an ass. I could be full of crap. You probably don't like sugar free Jello.)

[MeTekillot]

There's more barricades than that one in the Arena in Tuluk now?

[Nyr]

Yes. We planned on that. It is on the history page.

[Desertman]

Yes. We planned on that. It is on the history page.

Well hell.

Fair enough then.

Mission accomplished. I'm just glad I wasn't imagining the after affects.

Well, umm, that is a non issue now. Anyone got anything else they think would help Tuluk's population?

[FantasyWriter]

I greatly endorse any idea that makes life harder for non-citizens in either City-state, especially Naki's in Tuluk or Tulukis in Nak.
Even speaking with the wrong accent should make you highly suspect as a spy or terrorist.

Conflict people!

[Patuk]

If the whole xenophobia thing is why (you think) Tuluk is so empty the playerbase had some serious issues with doing its job at making outsiders feel unwelcome prior to its additio-

Oh wait it did. Huh.

[MeTekillot]

MEANINGFUL Conflict people!

as long as interrogating random travelers in the street adds to gameplay/stories, sure

[Cutthroat]

Making it harder to play a foreigner in Tuluk resulted in the population drop?

Maybe people should play more Tuluki citizens then...

[Nyr]

We found that some players were (and sometimes still are) ignoring the results of a major battle. We chose to represent that with some easily added scripting. The expected result was that non-citizens would find it difficult to maintain physical holdings in Tuluk.

Seeing as how we only had to escort about 3 or 4 non citizens out of the now "citizen-only" apartments, I doubt any assumption that says this is why there is a "dearth" of players playing in Tuluk. It is easier by far to attribute it to the loss of several sponsored roles in a two month period. And it is bouncing back from what we can tell, even though we still need to fill another role.

[whitt]

I'd sooner guess that players in Tuluk died and rolled their next PCs in Nak, per convention.  Meanwhile there was not a similar loss of PC life in Nak.  But, I'm a noob and still naive.  I'm sure the GDB will fix that for me soon. 

[Kronibas]

I think things like the barricades have added to the game/roleplay... Interestingly, they even affect roleplay in Allanak, albeit in ways which may not  be readily apparent.

[FantasyWriter]

I'd sooner guess that players in Tuluk died and rolled their next PCs in Nak, per convention.  Meanwhile there was not a similar loss of PC life in Nak.  But, I'm a noob and still naive.  I'm sure the GDB will fix that for me soon. 

No, it will ruin your soul! Quick... quit while you can!!!

[Twilight]

I am all for Tuluk being populated by actual Tulukis.  Not travellers, traders, displaced GMH employees, or folks who wanted the mindset of a Nakki character but didn't want to play there.

Despite having occassionally having been part of the problem of it being populated by foreigners in the past.

[slvrmoontiger]

Oops, first of all I guess this was meant to go under ask the staff. Sorry... Secondly, I was referring to having more PC Tuluki Citizens. Sorry for the confusion.

[Nyr]

Now that I'm not neglecting my organic chemistry class, I can be more verbose and maybe explain in a bit more detail.

I believe barricades that limit your ability to live in Tuluk if you aren't inked there has limited people's ability to live in Tuluk, and thus, less people are living in Tuluk.

When this decision was made, it was dovetailing off of IC plans and player-led ideas.  We developed a specific set of goals for what the tattoo checker locations should do, and before we set out on that task, we made sure we covered a few things first.

• If you're a noncitizen in Tuluk, you can shop and buy most anything you need.
• If you're a noncitizen in Tuluk, you are not able to get past the tattoo checkers.*
• Every location in Tuluk that noncitizens might need to access for whatever reason can feasibly be accessed, except for their own private apartments.  Member of the GMH and not a citizen?  You have access to your Estate.  The Byn is a bit iffy, I'll admit, but this is an IC plot sort of thing and can't be as easily discussed.  At any rate, their compound IS accessible and is inside the region allowed.

*easily

This introduces something new to the dynamic in Tuluk.  If you DO want to play an Allanaki ex-pat, you can do so in Tuluk QUITE easily.  The character generation system allows it!  Granted, you have nowhere to stay legally (yet) apart from tavern backrooms...but some might say that is part of the difficulty of doing such a thing.  That's also not to say that there aren't alternative methods.

We went into this with the idea that we knew this would negatively affect people not from Tuluk owning apartments in Tuluk, and we decided we were okay with that as it seemed to make more sense, particularly with the direction Tuluk is heading.  In addition to that, we started reviewing the tattoo situation and that's when we made the documentation change.  There were 7 people that were renting apartments in Tuluk that were not citizens.  Of those, 4 were "from" Tuluk but did not have the tattoos; this brought up the overall decision to simplify the tattoo system for citizenship and eventually led to the character generation changes we now have.  If applicable, we let them get their tats all done up; if not, we told them to hit the road.

As for overall population being lower in Tuluk of late, I'd point to at least a couple of factors, and again point to it getting better now:

• We had several sponsored roles fall through.  No hard feelings towards them at all, this kind of thing happens, but when it does, it reduces the footprint in a region.
• The holidays.  For some, that may be certain days, for others it may be weeks, for still others it might be a month or more.  This wasn't just players--staff, too, were kicking off and taking breaks from Armageddon.  (Like me.)  Any time there's a "holiday season" regardless of when/where, it affects routines.  When those routines include hobbies that involve other people...maybe one focuses on a different hobby.  Or a different area of that hobby.

These two things feed off of each other.  My best guess is that this is probably the culprit to lower population numbers in Tuluk, and that it will resolve itself over time.  In the meantime we are continuing with further plot-related activity as well as documentation changes/completion.  That also may be a factor--we had a steady amount of changes planned and staged up, some required PC involvement in certain areas, the above all happens and we have to stop, reassess where we were and what we needed, and sorta start over a little bit.

Sorry for any delays, hopefully the end result will be enjoyed by some, even most!

[Harmless]

Speaking hypothetically, I'd consider making a character in Tuluk if I had some way to know what role would be good there. But, with IC events being what they are, I have no idea what's going on up there, so I am unsure if any concept I come up with will have a unique niche or role or use to others.

This is just speaking hypothetically, to suggest a possibility for the die-down.

[Nyr]

Speaking hypothetically, I'd consider making a character in Tuluk if I had some way to know what role would be good there. But, with IC events being what they are, I have no idea what's going on up there, so I am unsure if any concept I come up with will have a unique niche or role or use to others.

This is just speaking hypothetically, to suggest a possibility for the die-down.

Not sure if I am following you on this one. 

"If you had some way of knowing what role would be good there..."
There are three noble houses open and every GMH has operations up there; you can also be somewhat (or entirely) independent...or join the militia.  In the subset of all of the above, you can also play a shadow artist or a bard if you're a citizen.  Those are the "roles" that are there.  What role would be good?  A better question might be "what role do you want to play?"  If you truly were hypothetically trying to figure out where you'd be useful in a new role, wouldn't an unsaturated environment be the place to find a new role?

"IC events being what they are, you have no idea what is going on up there"
See the history page.  Read the rumor boards.  Extrapolate.  The assumption that everything happening in Tuluk happens behind the scenes is a bit overrated when you consider that everything on the history page occurring in the past few IC years was witnessed in public places by PCs and plopped on rumor boards. 

"Unsure if any concept you come up with will have a unique niche or role or use to others"
If the concern laid out is "the population appears to be lower than usual," one might hope that any role you pick would have a unique niche or role or use to others!

I have my doubts that "not sure what is going on up there" is high on the list of variables affecting this, but if it is a factor, it will be resolved soon.

[titansfan]

I actually agree with the changes made. I also believe that things will pick up again within Tuluk as the new sponsored roles come into the mix. The barricades do not effect playability that much.

[long live miley cyrus]

How much impact has the absence of the Byn made to the Tuluki population you think? It is kind of the go-to clan for generic training. You can adjust how safe you are while you're there, leave anytime, ton of players, reliable amounts of combat experience even in the wee hours. If its re-opened since, then nevermind, but I'm kind of assuming Tuluk is still pissed.

[Bushranger]

How much impact has the absence of the Byn made to the Tuluki population you think? It is kind of the go-to clan for generic training. You can adjust how safe you are while you're there, leave anytime, ton of players, reliable amounts of combat experience even in the wee hours. If its re-opened since, then nevermind, but I'm kind of assuming Tuluk is still pissed.

Be the change! Forge a northern mercenary company to compete with the T'zai Byn.

[TheWanderer]

"Care for a spot of tea before we set out to hunt those troublesome magickers?"
"Yes, good sir. I would absolutely adore a cup of tea - oh, and perhaps a pastry whilst we lounge?"
"Very good, good sir! Pastries and tea for everyone!"
Everybody shouts, "Huzzah!"

[Scarecrow]

The reason less people might be playing in Tuluk is because Allanak is cooler.

[Large Hero]

The reason less people might be playing in Tuluk is because Allanak is cooler.

[Dresan]

Allanak has redstorm, rinth, gemmers, southside,nobles, clans and heck even a sewer system where conflict and plots can come from, just to name a couple groups and places. Most of conflict within Tuluk on the other hand is very controlled. I've been thinking about this for a while and I feel at this point the amount changes that would be needed to create some meaty conflict within tuluk similar to what you could find in allanak would probably destroy the culture and concept. Instead i feel tuluk shines best when its in conflict with some external source. Tuluk vs undertuluk, tuluk vs redfangs, Tulukvs kryl, tuluk vs Allanak. When its citizens are being mobilized to tackle a threat or problem then its alot of fun to play there.

In short, sometimes I feel like Tuluk is just one big clan, with minor controlled clan conflict within.Therefore, I'm kinda liking the direction the staff is taking Tuluk, and hope they take it all the way to its extremes. Potenially turning the city into one xenophobic clan.

So what kind of roles would you want to play in Tuluk?

I want every gypsy dead. Tuluk role.
I want every mage/gemmer dead. Tuluk role.
Dem byn were mean to me, must kill clan. Tuluk role.
I think GMH are too powerful and there is no reason to have two clans who both hire hunters and crafters. Tuluk role.
Any role where you want to instigate some change or pose a threat to a place or group not related to tuluk.

Be the change right? With the right leaders I could see byn being burned down and the next conflict being Tuluk vs GMH actually. And why not? Kiick those houses out of the city and force them to opperate from luirs or cenyr. Well, maybe not all of them, I mean with a few minor changes Kurac could fill a really nice niche in tuluk should byn be be burned down. Its all about profit right? Kadius has some strong ties though to tuluk, I always like morins too. Nenyuk... maybe, especially ever get a tuluki coin and double currency...hmm who's left. On a side note, I feel allanak doesn't give two shits about Tuluk,its often busy with other things to give Tuluk the attention it thinks it deserves. Sorry, but don't worry Tuluk is still on the list, Nak will get to them as soon as they have some spare time on their hand...yeah.

These are just some random thoughts I've been having though, some of them tie ito the other thread 'how to make clans more fun', so don't flame me too badly. I doubt any of this will ever happen unless someone tries real hard. The way to make anything more fun and/or more populated in the game is to simply have more conflct after all. Over the years the game has slowly become more condensed, something i think is good, since it will hopefully lead to more conflict without actually reducing flavors or roles. For many years, people have argued for destroying Tuluk and completely condensing the player population. Now that always sounded a bit extreme, but a few years ago it felt to me like Armageddon consisted of two games, one played one in Tuluk and another in Allanak, completely seperate from one another. Tuluk becoming more akin to a large xenophobic clan might be a good thing.  I know thats not what people might want to hear or see happen (and again not saying it will or is happening), but when you think about Tuluk in terms of one large clan, then the population there is pretty good.

[Cutthroat]

How much impact has the absence of the Byn made to the Tuluki population you think? It is kind of the go-to clan for generic training. You can adjust how safe you are while you're there, leave anytime, ton of players, reliable amounts of combat experience even in the wee hours. If its re-opened since, then nevermind, but I'm kind of assuming Tuluk is still pissed.

It would basically have no effect IMO. If anything, there are already a lot of clans in Tuluk. And for Tuluk to function as designed, a variety of niches have to be filled by different players. Bards are needed, Templars are needed, nobles are needed, shadow artists are needed, employees of various types in the various clans are needed, all kinds of partisans are needed. The only advantage that Allanak has over Tuluk from an OOC perspective is that Allanak has less moving parts and therefore, more ability to function without some of the minor niches being filled.

But of course, Tuluk is seen as "uncool", or "not gritty enough". Then when some "harshness" is added in, those people who thought that just gloss over it. You can't please everyone I suppose.