How to make clans more appealing?

[FreeRangeVestric]

If people could stop trying to shove every single pc I make into clans that are supposedly exclusive and hard to get into, or letting me in, and then suddenly shelving me off to the Byn or some other clan for some reason without any input on my part, clans would look a lot nicer. Also, most clans are high-end, high status, and I need my grit and roughness, harsh desert.

I dunno. Perhaps I've just had bad luck with clans, but 9/10 of my pcs are indies, and usually the 1/10 is either in a low-class clan or not planning to live very long

So very, very true, in my eyes. The aggressive recruitment pushes by clans strike me as rather unrealistic at times, especially when its small-time grebber Taliamos McNobody they're trying to woo so heavy-handedly.

Very very simply, make any non-clanned Crafters able to Mastercraft but with no bonuses at all. Sure, they can make that sword for you, but unless they're clanned Salarri, that sword is just like any other sword. Only a Salarri gets +2 damage, or can have higher crits, or something.

In my experience, it already operates this way.  People just buy mastercrafts from indies because ...  actually, I don't know why they do.

Because equipment exists for reasons other than the coded benefits it offers?

[Kismetic]

Very very simply, make any non-clanned Crafters able to Mastercraft but with no bonuses at all. Sure, they can make that sword for you, but unless they're clanned Salarri, that sword is just like any other sword. Only a Salarri gets +2 damage, or can have higher crits, or something.

In my experience, it already operates this way.  People just buy mastercrafts from indies because ...  actually, I don't know why they do.

Because equipment exists for reasons other than the coded benefits it offers?

Hey, I'm on your side, what with the roleplaying and stuff.  I don't even care about the game economy, blah blah blah.  Just thought I'd drop some knowledge from recent GMH experience up in this beotch.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Very very simply, make any non-clanned Crafters able to Mastercraft but with no bonuses at all. Sure, they can make that sword for you, but unless they're clanned Salarri, that sword is just like any other sword. Only a Salarri gets +2 damage, or can have higher crits, or something.

In my experience, it already operates this way.  People just buy mastercrafts from indies because ...  actually, I don't know why they do.

Because equipment exists for reasons other than the coded benefits it offers?

Hey, I'm on your side, what with the roleplaying and stuff.  I don't even care about the game economy, blah blah blah.  Just thought I'd drop some knowledge from recent GMH experience up in this beotch.

Sowwy. That came across much more snarky than I had intended it to!!

[Kismetic]

What I'd recommend for people who want to make clans more appealing, is to apply for one of those leadership roles available.  And hide the bullets to your gun.

[BleakOne]

Synth I wasn't saying you shouldn't buy from indies ever, just that it's a bit unreasonable to complain about House Kadius refusing to buy diamonds from an indie as being jarring.

I do kind of get a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' vibe off this thread though. If you have a problem with someone trying to recruit your PC, maybe just refuse?

[LauraMars]

I like the idea of every item in the game being craftable.

It is not remotely feasible because of the double approval/writing process staff go through (there's thousands of items in the db), but it's a great idea anyway.

I wish there was a "raw materials" npc standing outside GMH compounds, buying lots of materials from hunters and traders for tiny prices (like 1,2 coins a hide and 15 coins for a fancy rock).  It would also be nice if these materials then became available to the pc crafters of the House.  If this was the only way that indies had to unload their millions of raw goods to npcs, it would be great for everyone.  Indies wouldn't have to lug around 9999 things anymore, they wouldn't have such an easy time grinding thousands of coins from the npc market, clans would have access to a wide range of materials (which would really only be valuable if everything was craftable, I admit), and it would be easy for pcs from other clans to offer more money for raw goods, promoting pc interaction.

[evilcabbage]

miley you really need to try clans out before you start pushing them down. some of us are still gritty fucks and your clan experience will probably make you cry a little.

[ale six]

Every time I think about posting, I wait a few minutes, and then either Delerium or Desertman posts almost exactly what I'm thinking. (I will probably never be able to write that sentence in any other GDB thread ever again!) I also like Laura's most recent post too.

I'd wager that NPC merchants, far more so than PC-to-PC sales or clan salaries, are the biggest source of money entering the game economy. And it's a little weird, when you think about it, that almost every merchant in the game is also running some sort of pawn shop. Often times I think PCs visit shops more to sell stuff than they do to actually buy! And this fact puts clanned characters at a disadvantage, because by and large they operate under restrictions that don't allow them to take advantage of the NPC money factory the way that independents can. So, I love love love Laura's idea. I even put it in bold to show how much I love it.

[BleakOne]

Not-Pirate Cthulu and Kitties agree with Pirate Cthulu and Kitties. 

[Cutthroat]

I'd wager that NPC merchants, far more so than PC-to-PC sales or clan salaries, are the biggest source of money entering the game economy. And it's a little weird, when you think about it, that almost every merchant in the game is also running some sort of pawn shop. Often times I think PCs visit shops more to sell stuff than they do to actually buy! And this fact puts clanned characters at a disadvantage, because by and large they operate under restrictions that don't allow them to take advantage of the NPC money factory the way that independents can.

That is pretty weird when you think about it.

What if Merchant House shops only bought things from their respective House's PC employees at a good price, while independently run NPC shops bought things from everyone?

- House crafters would have more of a purpose (and a greater incentive to buy and collect materials).
- Independent PCs would still be able to sell their own things, but only at certain shops.
- It would make a system where GMHs only fill orders for affiliated people and indies are told to check the House's shop's stock more feasible (a system that would make being in a clan more attractive while limiting indie purchasing power slightly).

If people could stop trying to shove every single pc I make into clans that are supposedly exclusive and hard to get into, or letting me in, and then suddenly shelving me off to the Byn or some other clan for some reason without any input on my part, clans would look a lot nicer. Also, most clans are high-end, high status, and I need my grit and roughness, harsh desert.

I dunno. Perhaps I've just had bad luck with clans, but 9/10 of my pcs are indies, and usually the 1/10 is either in a low-class clan or not planning to live very long

So very, very true, in my eyes. The aggressive recruitment pushes by clans strike me as rather unrealistic at times, especially when its small-time grebber Taliamos McNobody they're trying to woo so heavy-handedly.

Those clans are only recruiting aggressively because few PCs are willing to join them despite their supposed attractiveness... hence the point of this whole thread.

[Synthesis]

Indies don't have to carry around 9999 items.  The fact of the matter is, the only reason most indies even have so much coin is because to skill up, you have to go and fight shit, and it's not legit to say "i'mma go spar these scrabs," so they go and "hunt" scrabs, even if they don't need the damn 'sid, because they -do- need the skillgain.  Then they go and sell the scrab shit because why the fuck not?  There's like a tiny fraction of an indie's life (the first few weeks where maybe they aren't skilled enough to actually kill valuable things) where they need to scrounge for salt or rocks, or whatever.  The rest of the time, it's a 6-month grindfest before your skills are where you want them.

Even if you reduce the payout from this stuff, it isn't going to stop them from being indie, because they aren't indie for monetary reasons at all.  Like I've said before, money has very, very little to do with the choice to roll an independent PC, so this overemphasis on economic incentives to drive people into clans makes no sense, unless you reduce payouts and forage to the point where basic survivability is a problem even for mid-level PCs.  Even then, I strongly suspect that people will simply start to take more crafting subguilds, so they can craft their own end-items...so a year down the road, we'll be having the argument about "indie crafts paying too much, and why should the GMHs buy indie crafts at their shops, anyway?"  Meanwhile, all the GMH bosses will be complaining about having zero crafters, because the only people joining clans will be the warrior/slipknife and assassin/aggressor PCs who can't make a dime doing anything else.

[LauraMars]

Indies don't have to carry around 9999 items.  The fact of the matter is, the only reason most indies even have so much coin is because to skill up, you have to go and fight shit, and it's not legit to say "i'mma go spar these scrabs," so they go and "hunt" scrabs, even if they don't need the damn 'sid, because they -do- need the skillgain.  Then they go and sell the scrab shit because why the fuck not?  There's like a tiny fraction of an indie's life (the first few weeks where maybe they aren't skilled enough to actually kill valuable things) where they need to scrounge for salt or rocks, or whatever.  The rest of the time, it's a 6-month grindfest before your skills are where you want them.

Then my idea will work for you too - giving you even more legitimate reasons to go out and skillgain, because there will actually be someone who ALWAYS buys those raw goods that are the unfortunate byproduct of hacking and slashing your way through the desert in search of journeyman dual wield!  Your facade of pretending to be a "hunter" will appear even more sincere!  If he doesn't give you lots of coin to weigh you down, even better!

[James de Monet]

I think the other issue is that not all players are the same. Some players just want RP interaction (relationships, conflict). Others want to be something or another, and RP from a position of power (or realism, whathaveyou). Still others want a coded challenge, something to brag about.

For type 1s, tavern sitting is where it's at. It's where the people are, it's where the interaction is. For these people, clan schedules and low pay are a problem. Freedom not so much.

For type 2s, they have more control over their own destiny outside of a clan. Will most climb as high outside of a clan as they could inside? Probably not, but they can control the climb.

For type 3s, until clans can offer daily challenges or RPTs like hunting/exploring does, their interest is going to remain outside the walls.



I really think you need to pick which group(s) you're trying to attract, and adjust clans accordingly. They can't all be baited with the same carrot.

[Synthesis]

Indies don't have to carry around 9999 items.  The fact of the matter is, the only reason most indies even have so much coin is because to skill up, you have to go and fight shit, and it's not legit to say "i'mma go spar these scrabs," so they go and "hunt" scrabs, even if they don't need the damn 'sid, because they -do- need the skillgain.  Then they go and sell the scrab shit because why the fuck not?  There's like a tiny fraction of an indie's life (the first few weeks where maybe they aren't skilled enough to actually kill valuable things) where they need to scrounge for salt or rocks, or whatever.  The rest of the time, it's a 6-month grindfest before your skills are where you want them.

Then my idea will work for you too - giving you even more legitimate reasons to go out and skillgain, because there will actually be someone who ALWAYS buys those raw goods that are the unfortunate byproduct of hacking and slashing your way through the desert in search of journeyman dual wield!  Your facade of pretending to be a "hunter" will appear even more sincere!  If he doesn't give you lots of coin to weigh you down, even better!

Yeah, but the point is to get people into the clans...so your idea won't work at all.

[Lizzie]

I think there are several players who play mostly indies for personal reasons and logistics that have nothing to do with the game. Like - someone who can only play a couple hours every week, and doesn't want to have to spend those few hours looking for his clannies so he can do fun stuff with them, or worse - be stuck spending those few hours sparring. Every week, because every time they manage to log on, it's time to spar. Or even worse - they log on hoping to get a little sparring in, and it's the day off and everyone's at the bar, and then it'll be night IG, and then it's time for them to log out because their play times are so limited. And they can't ever attend RPTs for their clan - so it's just drudgery.

Logistics: you're playing when your clan boss is NOT playing. You're supposed to report goings on to your clan boss - but you never can, because you don't play at the same time. He can't promote, give you a bonus, punish you for screwing up, or learn that your co-clannie is lying to him and that it's you, not him, who's done all that work and made all those kryl-shell anklets, and therefore it's you, not him, who should be getting the commission.

Nothing you can do about this, but it sounds like the people who don't play in clans for these kinds of reasons, might end up getting the shaft if most of the ideas presented thus far were ever implemented.

[long live miley cyrus]

miley you really need to try clans out before you start pushing them down. some of us are still gritty fucks and your clan experience will probably make you cry a little.

Oh, I'm sure most clan experiences are not so bad. I have some good clan memories. Its recruitment and having to work to stay indie that's grinding my gears.

[number13]

I haven't played for a while, for various reasons, but I hope nobody minds if I offer my $.02 anyway:

Being in a clan should be a thing of prestige.  A Kadian hunter should be able to look down his nose at the grubby scavengers pretending to be so-called independent hunters. A Salari crafter should be in an entirely different class of demand than the amateur banging some rocks together and calling it a sword.  A Tor Scorpion should have the absolute best equipment and training the Academy can provide, and mechanically should destroy an independent merc.

What if prices in the merchant stalls were sharply adjusted such that a clanned hunter/crafter could get the best prices for his wares (the current prices), and the unclanned received something like 50% (or 75% even) less than current prices? In fact, it could work across all stalls: a Kadian stall is going to value the work of a Kuraci crafter higher than an independent, just due to reputation.

I know the crafters/hunters aren't supposed to sell their wares to the stalls -- but why not?  Instead of salary, you get the heavy selling bonus. The drama comes in when you have to ~keep~ that cozy job. You have a boss, and in order to stay a Kadian crafter with all the perks, you need to make sure that boss stays happy.  There's limited slots for crafters per leader, let's say.  There could be in-fighting and competition to get a slot and keep it.

[Off-peak people could be given a merchant house commission as a crafter by an NPC leader, with a mandate to provide X, Y, Z. The player would largely be responsible for ensuring the mandate is filled.]

Noble House roles could provide even more of an advantage, with a higher price tag and stiffer competition for the roles.  Easiest example is a Scorpion -- once your PC graduates the Academy and takes a life oath, he gets access to the absolute best armor in the game -and- a massive bonus to his combat stats.  Noticeably, the Scorpions should be the best fighters in the South.  (Conversely, a noble house employee who turns traitor should be public enemy #1.)  If the position grants a real in-game advantage, people will fight over it. That's makes for fun times.  A Tor leader could hold contests to determine Academy hires, and at graduation make them all fight to the death to figure out who the new Scorpion is going to be.

Then, once he's a Scorpion, a PC should be able to use the position to it's fullest.  He's not some grub marching in formation. He's a the elite of the elite, and should be able to offer his services (for a fee of favors) to the other Houses and militia, or just go off and organize his own thing.

Other noble house roles should operate similarly -- massive advantages that an independent code-wise cannot match, at a price of a having to impress a noble boss enough to get a limited slot.

[Scarecrow]

I don't believe changes are needed.

[Quirk]

I fear I'm going to be spamming the thread with several posts here.

First up, a note: the whole selling to shops thing is an OOC convenience to get round PC lack of access to the thriving VNPC market that the NPC vendors are making their living off. It's not really a pawn shop scenario, it just compensates for the fact that you're not going to be able to stop a passing VNPC and sell them the beautiful wooden dinner plate you made (and good luck making a living off selling dinner plates to PCs).

Second up, another note: I've recently been playing in a spot which is supposed to be indie heaven, and I estimate four-fifths of the players I'm running into are clanned, mostly in the GMHs. Given my feelings on the GMHs expressed somewhat strongly earlier in the thread, I'm strongly of the opinion that all those RPers locked up in GMH limbo is a damned shame and that we'd be better served by a thread about how to get the poor souls out again.

Right. Now back to the thread title. "How to make clans more appealing?". The title is not "How to drive more players into clans?". There's a key difference. If clans are in fact a killjoy experience for people, by degrading the indie experience to the point they pretty much have to play in clans to get by, you've given them a good reason to quit the game. "How to get indie players to quit the game?". I could probably cull a pretty good thread's worth of responses to that topic out of suggestions here. Speaking personally, I don't want the game to turn into Silkageddon: Tales of the Monopolists.

James de Monet's post is great, and captures some good reasons to not be in clans; Synthesis and Lizzie have added others; I've some of my own and there have been some mentioned already. I'll try to collate them.

1 ). Roleplay opportunities are restricted.
    Clan schedules stop you meeting up with the cool role-players.
2 ). Status is attained without working for it.
    The most boring rags-to-riches tale possible is, "I was sitting in the bar, down to my last three sids, and then a Salarri recruiter made me an offer. Now I'm part of one of the most prestigious clans in the Known!"
3 ). Action and excitement are lacking.
    Where's the conflict at? Tip: not Kadius. At least exploring can produce enough danger to make for a cool story. And we're here for cool stories, right? Obligatory Rindan thread link: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,15055.0.html
4 ). Lack of playing time.
    Schedules are killing the joy when you do get to log in, and never getting to make any of the RPTs.
5 ). Too much playing time.
    Schedules and other restrictions kill the joy when there's nobody else around. Note also that your perceptions of rich indies may well be coloured by running into the guy avoiding clans for this reason but making sid 12 hours a day.
6 ). Skilling up is faster outside a clan.
    I can't speak for this myself, but Synthesis seems to speak pretty authoritatively here.
7 ). Many clans make it tricky to stay gritty.
    It's hard to actually experience the tension of struggling to get by when recruiters are battering down your door with offers of free food for life. And grit's hard come by in many clans. The Byn, the Guild and a few others are honourable exceptions.
8 ). Meaningless jobs.
    GMH hunters, crafters; see earlier in the thread for a full discussion.
9 ). Lack of privacy.
    Clan compounds are decidedly worse than having your own apartment. There's no sense of ownership and no private space to plot in.
10). The money's better outside.
    Nobody yet has claimed this motivates them, but there seems to be a common belief it motivates other people.

Frankly, I think the focus on 10) is a massive waste of time. Trying to resolve 10) is hard because of 5) and any resolution makes 2) and 7) even worse. More than that, rich indies don't have a lot to do with their money but buy overpriced loaded gear from the GMHs and hire poorer players to do things that offer opportunities for cool RP. While I'm all for cutting down on the first, I think the second makes more cool stories than come out of the Merchant Houses without imm input.

Similarly, I don't think making the Houses more prestigious or giving them the power to churn out even more overpowered kit does anything good. It doesn't fix the day to day issues which affect much of this list.

What do I think would help? Well, that'll need another post.

[Barzalene]

I don't believe changes are needed.

This would be easy to implement.

I don't think things are so broken. I think it's difficult when a clan has been left without a leader for a while and you need to kick start it. It's hard. But once leaders get momentum it gets easier.
Earlier this year there were a lot of ideas about thing that were weighted toward increasing the influence of the independent. Markets and stalls and communal halls etc. I don't like them. (That is a subjective assessment.)

I've played a few indies. (Not many. I like having that built in social experience, but even more I like having that built in social context. Being a soldier is definitive. Being a noble aide is a role that has a clear place in the world. Being in a merchant house gives you a place to build your character from.) Clearly indies are valid roles. And there are lots of reasons to play outside of clans. But I think clans define the world. And I'm old and I don't like when things change. I remember when the.... anyway.

I feel sort of bad about Quirk's posts. They seem so ... harsh. Clans suck! Clans suck! Ow. They don't. I think there is a lot of room for both the clanned and unclanned. And different times and places and people will respond differently. It won't always be Danu and Shatuka and it won't always be Pearl Terash and it won't always be poor dead dwarves who were disappeared once they got too awesome. It will be different each time.

Right now indie heaven looks too clanned. But last year, ... things skewed the other way. It all may be self-adjusting.

But if we keep building warehouses and markets and communal crafting halls and rentable sparring rings, things may be weighted too heavily away from something that self corrects. Same thing the other way with taxes and so forth.

I do like the banking ideas listed above. I do like the room idea (sort of,  I'd prefer that there be more daily rentals available for people to find temporary privacy and less sequestering away from other players for extended periods of time.) I like the idea of food being easier to attain for the new character but absolute success more challenging. It should be hard to challenge the powers that be. If it is easy, it's less fun.

[Cutthroat]

1 ). Roleplay opportunities are restricted.
    Clan schedules stop you meeting up with the cool role-players.

Make schedules only a thing that clannies follow as a means to meet with each other and this problem is essentially solved. It makes no IC sense to eliminate schedules from the militaristic clans or from clans with a lot of players in them as it keeps them together. And "cool" roleplayers can be in clans as well.

2 ). Status is attained without working for it.
    The most boring rags-to-riches tale possible is, "I was sitting in the bar, down to my last three sids, and then a Salarri recruiter made me an offer. Now I'm part of one of the most prestigious clans in the Known!"

Not really. In practice, status is attained when you rank up beyond the very first recruit/probation rank. A hump that is actually a challenge for many players to get over, given that this takes at least 6 RL weeks in most clans and the average PC lifespan is probably closer to 2.

3 ). Action and excitement are lacking.
    Where's the conflict at? Tip: not Kadius. At least exploring can produce enough danger to make for a cool story. And we're here for cool stories, right? Obligatory Rindan thread link: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,15055.0.html

Noble Houses have conflict with each other. There is also internal clan conflict between members of the same clan - competition for promotions, the employer's favor, or simple dislike for one another. The Byn is basically paid to have conflicts with other people or things. The militias have conflicts with criminals and the opposite city.

If you want to talk about GMH conflict, yeah, GMHs probably aren't going to duke it out with each other because the monopolies are set. There's still scheming, looking for (and fighting for) new resources, and potentially conflict between GMHs and tribes that believe they own some land and everything that can be found on it.

4 ). Lack of playing time.
    Schedules are killing the joy when you do get to log in, and never getting to make any of the RPTs.

The first actual issue on your list that I agree exists. But a clan schedule isn't the root cause of the problem here. It's that a limited playtime means that your interaction with fellow employees and your employer is going to be based largely on how lucky you get. But that's the case if you're independent too, when it comes to finding interaction with other players.

5 ). Too much playing time.
    Schedules and other restrictions kill the joy when there's nobody else around. Note also that your perceptions of rich indies may well be coloured by running into the guy avoiding clans for this reason but making sid 12 hours a day.

I mentioned on the first page that we should all decide to ignore clan schedules if no one else is around, and do whatever your employer allows you to do when this is the case. That being said, employers should set a series of activities their employees can do when no one is around. Many do this already.

6 ). Skilling up is faster outside a clan.
    I can't speak for this myself, but Synthesis seems to speak pretty authoritatively here.

And getting into plots with a city-wide or world-wide scope is faster inside a clan. What is this game actually about for any particular player? A player that prefers to skill up will find the best way to do that, and a player who prefers entry into big plots will find the best way to do that too.

7 ). Many clans make it tricky to stay gritty.
    It's hard to actually experience the tension of struggling to get by when recruiters are battering down your door with offers of free food for life. And grit's hard come by in many clans. The Byn, the Guild and a few others are honourable exceptions.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, clans are recruiting aggressively because these clans are ICly appealing, yet no one is clamoring to get in. If there was more competition to get into a clan, there would be less recruiting, less offering and less announcements.

8 ). Meaningless jobs.
    GMH hunters, crafters; see earlier in the thread for a full discussion.

I don't really have an opinion about this except making it so GMH crafters have access to their shop's stock somehow. Whether by making it so that crafters can put something in a room and it goes up for sale, or making it so that only GMH crafters can sell to GMH shops. Changing that for crafters would give hunters more of a goal to focus on.

9 ). Lack of privacy.
    Clan compounds are decidedly worse than having your own apartment. There's no sense of ownership and no private space to plot in.

You talked about grit a couple of points above... apartment is a luxury. This is not a luxury that clan members get right off the bat. Finding or paying for a private space to plot in is thus part of a regular challenge of playing.

10). The money's better outside.
    Nobody yet has claimed this motivates them, but there seems to be a common belief it motivates other people.

If you're of the belief that indies remain indie to skill, then money makes skilling sustainable.

[Cutthroat]

Sorry to double-post, but I also want to mention something that came to my mind earlier, and I don't think it was mentioned in this thread.

The player-base can get pretty stretched thin over the whole world. There are a lot of clans and a big problem that clans have is not having enough players, which might make people shy away from joining those clans. In my opinion this is doubly true in Tuluk, where there are far more clans to be a member of and two types of official association, and Tuluki society rather depends on all of these (bards, Legions, noble houses, GMHs and partisans) being reasonably full.

A good fix for clans might simply be for players to vote regularly. Get more new blood into Armageddon and you get more PCs in the pool that clans hire from. More PCs means more competition for limited spots in clans, driving up the standards that any individual PC needs to show in order to get into one, and stay in one.

[Quirk]

So, some things I think would help:

Find some way to relax schedules for clans with small numbers of PCs.
- I think tight schedules make for a lot of dissatisfaction. If your playing time greatly exceeds your other clan mates, or is much less, or you're in a clan with a couple of PCs you don't greatly care to interact with most the time, schedules hurt. They may make IC sense in military clans, but making IC sense can be a trap: it would make perfect IC sense to have more latrines existing in the built world, but it wouldn't add very much to the game.

Make apartments easier to come by for the clanned.
- This does privilege the clanned even more and pushes them further above the gritty levels of the game. I think though there are two separate problems: one is that clans hire people indiscriminately and thus make a mockery of the supposedly desirable privilege and status of being in a clan, and the second is that being in a clan isn't really all that awesome perks-wise compared with being a successful indie with your own apartment. This reduces the impact of the second, though the first still needs addressed: while being a successful indie takes time and effort, and getting into a clan is as easy as saying "yes" to a recruiter as you stumble out of the new character spawn, it feels wrong to me to insist that the perks worked for in one case should be handed out for free in the second.

Cut down on meaningless jobs.
- Either retire the hunters of Salarr into being virtual, or make their work have more meaning. Lots of ideas have been tossed about regarding this already. It probably deserves its own thread.

Give clans more meaningful challenges.
- A monopoly without enemies is a dull place to start a story. That doesn't mean a dull ending, but if we can improve the start then I think more people will come along for the ride.

A sample idea:

Kadius is thrown out of Allanak! Rumours abound that a high-ranking member of the House was caught leaving the city with scrolls detailing planned army movements, and the Highlord himself was involved in the decision. The vacuum left by Kadius' departure is at first filled by competing PC and VNPC enterprises - can Kadius smuggle in its goods and impose its strength on the upstarts without having official sanction? (Room is made in the longer term for new mid-sized clans, elven tribes, etc). Meanwhile, local tensions arise in Freil's Rest between Kadius and the qynar's governor. How will Kadius assert control over its home ground?

[FantasyWriter]

I think a few people are getting "there is no conflict/interaction between clans" confused with "Through my one pair of PC eyes in a world of 300ish PCs, I don't see any conflict/interaction."

Of Murder Corruption and Betrayal, all thee can take place and have massive consequences on the game world without more than two or even one PC being in the know.  Tuluk, for example, prides itself on anything of the sort being done behind the scenes/under the table, and even in Allanak, it's not always (I would even say hardly ever)  a good idea to go about causing trouble for all to see.

[Cutthroat]

I think though there are two separate problems: one is that clans hire people indiscriminately and thus make a mockery of the supposedly desirable privilege and status of being in a clan, and the second is that being in a clan isn't really all that awesome perks-wise compared with being a successful indie with your own apartment.

The IC ideal is that clans are exclusive one-in-a-lifetime kind of opportunities. Like a computer scientist landing a job at Google or a particle physicist getting to work at CERN.
The OOC ideal is that clan leaders want players in their clans. It would be great if hiring was more discriminate but the nature of the game demands a bit of openness in allowing players to join clans. There's no mockery - just a general desire to bring people together for plots.

What actually happens in-game is more of a balance between these two ideals. Players can join clans, but they don't get the best perks until they have remained in the clan for a while.

I'm also concerned that an apartment is being presented as a measure of success. There are numerous private areas in the game that aren't apartments but do serve well for secret stuff.