Consent Rules TOS.

[Harmless]

Here I am. Said I would quit the GDB, but dammit, I care too much about this community to give up on it.

How do you feel about about forcing everyone to undergo some kind of basic training to prove that they know how consenting works and what it means?

At the very least, I suggest we just scroll them some pages of examples, with timers to ensure good reading time was allowed, and then we force them to acknowledge these consent rules and so on (or not, at which point, poof! Logged off. Come back when you're ready!), Much like a terms of service (TOS) agreement. Before they can play this game. All old players should be forced to read through this stuff the next time they log in. Maybe it should happen once a year or whenever the staff updates it. Just something to ensure we're all on the same page, for those of us who never look at the God-awful Discussion Board.

The stakes are high. Should we be forcing our playerbase to acknowledge and understand what consenting is for, why it's important, when to do it, and HOW to have those important grey-area discussions of consent?

[lordcooper]

I voted against the mild annoyance being implemented.

[Cutthroat]

I think telling new players to read the rules once is enough. The rules should ideally be simple enough that there should not be too much confusion about what is allowed and what isn't (at least when the newest rule's wording is perfected, which staff have said they are working on). The only time you should be forced to review rules is when staff tell you you've broken a rule and that you need to improve your behavior.

[Barsook]

The only time you should be forced to review rules is when staff tell you you've broken a rule and that you need to improve your behavior.

+1

[evilcabbage]

Cabbage votes against. Nobody is surprised.

[Agent_137]

Just something to ensure we're all on the same page, for those of us who never look at the God-awful Discussion Board.

I'm not sure what the problem is that you're trying to solve.

People not knowing about changes to the rules? Those are posted to the MOTD that everyone sees upon logging into their character. GDB access not required.

Or do you suspect a lot of users aren't aware of the consent rules?

[RogueGunslinger]

I suspect a lot of people never once read the rules for anything they do. But those people don't need catered to, because they're lazy.

[Drayab]

I can't recall ever meeting someone IG that was unaware of the consent rules. Maybe I only play with the good players... 

I know you mean well, but I think this is an annoying fix to a non-existent problem.

[Barsook]

I suspect a lot of people never once read the rules for anything they do. But those people don't need catered to, because they're lazy.

I must admit that I do this.  Shame on me.

[slvrmoontiger]

I'm just going to say the Consent Rules are not clear. Some people seem to think that a one time consent means everything else in the future is already consented to. Others, like myself, seem to believe that a consent is a one time deal unless you put in something that makes it longer standing. Consent is not defined in these terms as of yet. I am patiently waiting for Staff's determination of how consent should be done in this instance so this is the only comment I will make as far as that goes.

As far as stating you've read and agree to the consent terms, I believe this should be a one time deal for all players, should be some sort of thing sent out to the email address stating you need to go to this link, read it, and then click the button saying I have read and agree to the terms. It shouldn't need to be revisited after the one time deal though. But since I've never heard nor seen this, I think a blanketed email to all players should go out. The email should state that you have x amount of time say a month to read and agree to it or your account will have a ban put on it until you do do this. However, I believe this should wait until the above information is determined. Then each new player who comes into the game should have the same restriction placed on them.

I think this answers the question in a satisfactory manner.

[evilcabbage]

Consent is a one time deal. You gave consent to THAT scene, not to every other scene that comes to pass.

[Lizzie]

Consent is a one time deal. You gave consent to THAT scene, not to every other scene that comes to pass.

Yeah I just assumed that was a no-brainer. I mean - I might consent to a scene today - because I have time, and I'm okay with the nature of the scene and the players involved.

But tomorrow, I might need to log out in 15 minutes and just flat out don't have time for a scene. Or maybe there's another character involved, who is being roleplayed in a way that I'm not comfortable with roleplaying out details of a consent-required scene. For instance - amos teh dorf. So maybe I'd RP out a torture scene with the Byn unit, UNLESS amos teh dorf was with them. In which case I would not give consent.

There are some players who I'd give consent to, as a universal consent, and if I needed to fade, I'd interject before things got too far and just ooc and let them know that this time, we needed to fade or cut things short.

There are some players who I'd want to fade with every time, *except* on the rare occasion that I want to RP out a scene - in which case I'd use the ooc command and say so (and I'd of course honor the other person's response to that OOC).


Other than that, I'd expect to be asked to consent each and every time, and I assumed the consent rules applied to each individual instance.

[Drayab]

If you want to act out a graphic scene, first obtain consent from everyone in the room.

If somebody else starts doing something graphic without asking for consent, gently suggest that it gets taken care of before proceeding.

How is this difficult?

[Yam]

So you're the person who implemented those ToS screens that make you scroll all the way to the bottom!

[Morgenes]

Note that 'help consent' was updated tonight including specific answer to the question of 'Should I have to ask for consent every time?'

[evilcabbage]

so OBTAIN CONSENT FIRST NO MATTER WHAT is the ruling of staff. I find myself agreeing.

[Zoan]

I never read TOS anyway.

[lordcooper]

I never read TOS anyway.

That's dangerous.

[evilcabbage]

That's kind of gross.

[Harmless]

Why does Kyle seem the least bothered by that? He's just chillin', maybe looking at the time. Those kids sure are fucked up.

[Zoan]

'I'm so solly, I'm so hungly!' *eats tacos* (misquoting that episode)

[Hicksville Hoochie]

While not in favor of an occasional requirement, I'd so support a Terms of Service style validation of the consent rule to new accounts.

"These are the consent rules of Armageddon, blah blah blah, read and understand how it works, blah blah. Do you understand and agree to abide by this? Y/N."

[Barsook]

While not in favor of an occasional requirement, I'd so support a Terms of Service style validation of the consent rule to new accounts.

"These are the consent rules of Armageddon, blah blah blah, read and understand how it works, blah blah. Do you understand and agree to abide by this? Y/N."

Maybe that's what is needed.

[lordcooper]

While not in favor of an occasional requirement, I'd so support a Terms of Service style validation of the consent rule to new accounts.

"These are the consent rules of Armageddon, blah blah blah, read and understand how it works, blah blah. Do you understand and agree to abide by this? Y/N."

When's the last time you read a ToS?

[Lizzie]

While not in favor of an occasional requirement, I'd so support a Terms of Service style validation of the consent rule to new accounts.

"These are the consent rules of Armageddon, blah blah blah, read and understand how it works, blah blah. Do you understand and agree to abide by this? Y/N."

When's the last time you read a ToS?

More to the point:
When was the last time someone read a ToS, and actually paid attention to what it said, in advance of agreeing to it?

How many players know what the terms of service are for this forum, without having to look it up and read it (since - of course they have already read it and agree to it, therefore, they must know what it says all the time, right?)

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Not to argue the point too heavily, as I'm very guilty of not reading them myself. =P

But your typical TOS runs on for pages at a time, ramble along with legal this and that. A consent rules rundown would be much shorter - could perhaps even be a copy-paste of the actual help file on consent. That would put all responsibility on a new player to known and understand the rule, instead of perhaps claiming they're still reading documentation or what not as any sort of excuse if the rule is broken.

Terms of Service might have been a bad comparison to use, due to the length/legal stuff involved, maybe a confirmation of understanding?

Regardless, I'm of the opinion that it'd be better than nothing. Some players who do actually begin reading documentation as they play could potentially miss the consent rules and end up in trouble before they come upon them. If it makes at least one or two players with the potential to become strong members of the community more aware, then it'd probably be worth the effort.

[Lizzie]

Not to argue the point too heavily, as I'm very guilty of not reading them myself. =P

But your typical TOS runs on for pages at a time, ramble along with legal this and that. A consent rules rundown would be much shorter - could perhaps even be a copy-paste of the actual help file on consent. That would put all responsibility on a new player to known and understand the rule, instead of perhaps claiming they're still reading documentation or what not as any sort of excuse if the rule is broken.

Terms of Service might have been a bad comparison to use, due to the length/legal stuff involved, maybe a confirmation of understanding?

Regardless, I'm of the opinion that it'd be better than nothing. Some players who do actually begin reading documentation as they play could potentially miss the consent rules and end up in trouble before they come upon them. If it makes at least one or two players with the potential to become strong members of the community more aware, then it'd probably be worth the effort.

I don't think focusing on that one rule, would be helpful to the game. Isolating it from all the other rules just reminds everyone about the subject. The point of ALL of this - is to get everyone to DROP the subject.

When you create your character you agree to the rules. ALL of them. They are ALL available for everyone to read, at any time, from any electronic device, or they're welcome to print it out and wallpaper their bedrooms with them.

There is nothing about this rule that makes it so important that it has to be isolated away from all the other rules, thus making the other rules LESS important by extension.

[Drayab]

These kind of 'press Y to prove you read the rules' statements are not very useful in my opinion. In practice, all they do is remove the 'ignorance of the rules' defense when somebody gets in trouble. This may be important in matters of business and law, but not in a free online fantasy game. I doubt staff gives any credibility to that defense anyway. More likely, they're going to tell you that you were expected to have read the rules and punish you anyway.

This is not going to eliminate rule ignorant lazies because they're just going to click on through anyway.

[boog]

'I'm so solly, I'm so hungly!' *eats tacos* (misquoting that episode)

Leave my child out of this!

But... if you guys don't read the ToS, or the rules, you're putting yourself in danger of complaints and being punished for not abiding. It's no skin off of my back if you can't be bothered to read anything; just don't act surprised when you receive repercussions for not reading, not unlike Kyle Brovlofski, as pictured above.