Discussion of Rape being banned from plotlines

[Eurynomos]

That is 100% correct, Cutthroat.

[Yummri]

*sighing* I'm sure I'll figure it out if it comes up.

*gives everyone a piece of birthday cake* I is my birthday. I would share my real cake if it would make everyone happy.

[Desertman]

- You cannot ask someone for consent to rape their pc.
- You cannot accuse an PC, NPC or VNPC of raping your character.
- You cannot sit in a tavern and tell the story of your PC being raped.
- You cannot play out a rape storyline even if the other person you are playing with is consenting.
- You cannot persecute another PC, NPC or VNPC for rape, because rape should not be part of an active storyline.
- If you include rape in your pc's background it should remain as that, background.  You can use it to shape your pc's world view, you cannot use it as a motivation to kill all tall, muscular men because they have reminded you of a terrible situation.

I think you are still allowed to discuss your background IG even if it contains themes of rape in it. It looks like what is specifically being banned is:

- The act of rape (which previously required consent for both the RP and the actual plotline having taken place)
- Accusing other people of rape (which was previously allowed)

That's it.

That is 100% correct, Cutthroat.

........

[KankWhisperer]

To add to the more recent discussion of "why can't we reference rape?"  One has to think that, simply by the odds, there are players of this game who have been raped in RL.  You wouldn't be that douche who walked up to them, and said, "Hey, I heard you got raped!"  I think it would be just as rude to subject them to similar feelings while they're enjoying a game.

I watched my brother die of cancer when I was twelve. The doctor gave all the Hispanic patients older treatments cutting their survival rate significantly Death upsets me. Prejudice upsets me. Not trying to say it's the same as being raped but by that logic I want all mention of death, sickness, and discrimination reconned
so I don't feel bad for volunteering to role play in a disgusting world full of all those things.

[Fujikoma]

Some would consider being told to stop, or being told no and doing it anyway would be rape. In that case, about a third of the mudsex my characters have found themselves in, they were being raped... Although, huh, after a minute or two they quickly changed their minds on the whole "no" thing, so I guess there's that. Yeah, the whole concept of what can willingly consent and cannot gives me pause, can you accuse someone of kanking their mount, even in jest?

[TheWanderer]

if a soldier type PC is saying that then we probably aren't going to ban them. But then, it's really not that hard to just say  "I want to go murder, and pillage the enemy holdings and citizenry!", is it?

A vicious snarl, spittle flying from his lips as he turns, his voice just barely audible over the roar of the surrounding armies, the scariest motherfucker you ever done seen shouts, in southern-accented sirihish: "We are going to charge these motherfucking gates! We are gonna kill these motherfuckin' Tulukis, we are gonna put Utep's head on a fucking pike, and we are gonna burn their motherfucking city to the motherfucking ground! And to celebrate, we're gonna ravage the buttocks of every fuckin' survivor! Anyone who runs will need t'prepare for the ultimate skull pillaging of a lifetime! Have I made myself clear, motherfuckers?

It's not hard, but I'm curious as to whether or not this kinda thing is still allowed, and are we allowed to switch out 'ravage' and 'pillaging' with 'rape the *naughty-parts*,' and then 'ultimate skull pillaging' with 'ultimate skull f@#&ing' as we see fit?

[boog]

- You cannot ask someone for consent to rape their pc.
- You cannot accuse an PC, NPC or VNPC of raping your character.
- You cannot sit in a tavern and tell the story of your PC being raped.
- You cannot play out a rape storyline even if the other person you are playing with is consenting.
- You cannot persecute another PC, NPC or VNPC for rape, because rape should not be part of an active storyline.
- If you include rape in your pc's background it should remain as that, background.  You can use it to shape your pc's world view, you cannot use it as a motivation to kill all tall, muscular men because they have reminded you of a terrible situation.

I think you are still allowed to discuss your background IG even if it contains themes of rape in it. It looks like what is specifically being banned is:

- The act of rape (which previously required consent for both the RP and the actual plotline having taken place)
- Accusing other people of rape (which was previously allowed)

That's it.

That is 100% correct, Cutthroat.

........

Okay. Good. I'm not insane for/alone in thinking the same thing.

[lordcooper]

While I agree that a rule like this might be necessary for the comfort of a few players, I do find it a bit sad that this is the case.

[Desertman]

While I agree that a rule like this might be necessary for the comfort of a few players, I do find it a bit sad that this is the case.

I know of one player who had a family member who was brutally murdered, with a bludgeoning weapon.

I wonder what would happen if they sent in complaints about seeing murder in the game.

If they did I wonder if we would give them the same emotional backing and implement rules to make the game "for them".  

Of course the answer is no. I'm just making a point. At what point do we decide one group should be protected from volunteering to be involved in something and when another group shouldn't?

I wonder how many war veterans we have playing who really wouldn't care to see the torture scenes or references to torture? That one probably hits closer to home.

[Adhira]

- You cannot sit in a tavern and tell the story of your PC being raped.
- If you include rape in your pc's background it should remain as that, background.  You can use it to shape your pc's world view, you cannot use it as a motivation to kill all tall, muscular men because they have reminded you of a terrible situation.

Let me modify this a little. If it's in your background you can use it as internal motivation, the moment you externalize it, it becomes an in game storyline.  Let's say you talk to Amos about your PCs rapist/rapist father etc. You give some vague description that happens to fit Malik.  Next thing Malik becomes part of a smear campaign. Others learn of it, Malik becomes a target, Malik is now not only confused and a target, he's been made a part of a rape storyline that he did not agree to.  Malik has an issue with this. Staff spend copious hours trying to work out what is happening here,.  Sounds like bullshit? No, this has happened.

Dealing with this stuff is annoying.  We don't like to do it.  We have been doing it for years with the consent rule.  Personally, I don't care at all if you have played this kind of storyline, have it in your background, whatever.  What I do care about is the time it takes for staff to sort out issues and the fact that several staff members asked for this policy to be reviewed. We reviewed it, we discussed it, a consensus was reached that it is easier to just ban this outright. Producers backed this consensus.

[Adhira]

Please stop fearmongering about other forms of 'harshness' being removed from the game.  This is a very specific incidence that has become an issue for more than the reason than that people have RL trauma over it.

This is a staff management issue.  This is a decision to help the staff. 

On the other hand staff are more than happy to kill your PCs over and over and over again and we will continue to be happy to do so.

[DxGrief]

Wow... I can just say wow.  What the heck did I come back to?

I haven't played in a while but it seems like ARM upped it's degenerate scale.  As a female gamer, it seems the default form of abuse males dish out is rape across all platforms.  I've been threatened more times with it on CoD and Halo than I care to count and I assume some of these pervs were under 16.  I've never encountered a rape instance in any of my characters.  As an rp tool, I would request a fade to black or just walk away from the screen until it was done if I wasn't allowed to (yeah, let me know when you're done..am I going to live or am I seeing the mantis head?)

I'm torn because if a PC wants to be all pervy and solo emote raping an NPC, other than the disgust factor of the staff watching said PC, I have no issue with NPC or virtual raping.  I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most of the rapists are male and that their targets were most likely females and not other males.  Just sayin'

As far as PC vs PC rape, was consent not given?  Was FTB not allowed?  I think the staff should absolutely step in and BURN offending PC if the rules were violated.  I'm lending to the belief that some PCs were doing this way too often for comfort.  I love toilets already alluded to a PC doing just this and still being allowed to play (sorry bastage...you should have lost your character and right to play).  Also, there seems to be alot more minor (read: under 18) players in the game.  With minors playing rapist and victim is just ick...ick.. ick..  As a parent, I would have big issues with a game my minor kid plays where they are taking on these roles repeatedly.  

Creative PK and general beat downs/torture should be du jour in ARM. Oh yeah and make the game rated M for mature and 18+. Just my 2 sids.

[Desertman]

(In reply to Adhira.)

I'm saddened the playerbase has reached the point they would actually send in player complaints about something like that.

But I believe you, and I actually understand where you are coming from.

Thanks a lot jackholes.

I still think it is Disneyfication for the purpose of coddling those souls who actually sent in complaints about the sort of thing you referenced above.

I'm sad we have got to a point where we will make changes to keep those sorts of people around, instead of tell them,

"Armageddon is harsh. Sorry friend. Please don't submit needless complaints like this because they are a hassle for staff and aren't needed."

[armandhammer]

A more elegant solution may have been to deny audience to any rape-related requests/complaints, in the same way most PK-related requests/complaints are handled (or not handled)

If fear of being accused of rape (in a player complaint) manifests itself the way it does in real-life, for me, my PCs will be unable to do the dirty. Plain and simple, and based on an OOC fear.

Fear of rape-related lawsuit is too real, for me. Too real.

[Refugee]

Just for all you guys saying in many years, you've not heard of rape, in just the last, oh, 5 or 6 months, I've had to deal with 3 PC on PC "alleged" rapes so far.  Not as one of the primary players but as a periphery actor after the fact.  That's just what one PC sees.  Imagine the world over.

I don't like the spot it puts me in as a player.  I don't enjoy watching the victim RP suffering, especially if she does a good job of it.  I don't want to watch it.  There's nothing fun about it.

The primary players seem to store or suicide very soon thereafter, so I think the consequences are not very enjoyable either.  There must be a lot of frustration, anger, and confusion on the part of the players of both parties.  Staff would have to try to deal with a situation where it's impossible to resolve it satisfactorily.

I don't blame them for getting rid of it.  I'm glad it's gone.

[Desertman]

Nevermind.

[lordcooper]

I still think it is Disneyfication for the purpose of coddling those souls who actually sent in complaints about the sort of thing you referenced above.

Or maybe it's Disneyfication for the purpose of getting those souls to STFU?  If a few generally good players bitched every time they got something pinched in my D&D campaigns I might be inclined to just drop a blanket ban on thieves after a while.  Not that it really matters either way.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I would never pursue such a plotline against someone else. If it happened to my PC I probably wouldn't complain or ftb (I also wouldn't consider it enjoyable), but that's just me. I understand some have very difficult real life issues involving such activity, and so am in support of such activities being highly discouraged. Removed outright, however, concerns me. Guess someone abused the privileges given to them.

I've heard about such plots IG, really disgusting, disturbing stuff that just made me sick inside, but, it is what it is. Suppose we're all better off without that crap.

[Desertman]

I still think it is Disneyfication for the purpose of coddling those souls who actually sent in complaints about the sort of thing you referenced above.

Or maybe it's Disneyfication for the purpose of getting those souls to STFU?  If a few generally good players bitched every time they got something pinched in my D&D campaigns I might be inclined to just drop a blanket ban on thieves after a while.  Not that it really matters either way.

If I had those sorts of players. I would find new players.

But, I don't tend to pander to bullshit either.

[Malken]

Why would you store or suicide a PC after being part of a "rape plot" if you need to consent to it beforehand..?

Don't really care either way about this, by the way, just curious..

[williamson]

I've never seen a rape in 10+ years and only heard about it maybe three times

I knew about a serial rapist who played out that plotline with at least four people, most likely more, caused quite a stir in a particular pc community with a disproportionate number of victims, I knew about one other who trapped a woman in his apartment with the idea that the other player could either die or live and be raped, and there was this one player who tried stuff on me without consent--- didn't back off after one comment from me that meant stop which I guess they identified as not actually meaning stop, and then I told them to stop again and they backed down. I didn't report them, given the situation I think I should have, and I'm somewhat sure they are now in a leadership role.

If rule-breaking happens again, this seems like a great place to use the new quit ooc command.

[KankWhisperer]

I didn't know there were so many rapists.  Maybe because I play ride around adventurer types.

[Desertman]

Why would you store or suicide a PC after being part of a "rape plot" if you need to consent to it beforehand..?

Don't really care either way about this, by the way, just curious..

Apparently this had nothing to do with PC's actually being raped. This had to do with people who were never raped by someone being involved in rape plots, and submitting complaints about it.

This caused a lot of staff side work for no reason.

So we wiped the concept from the game.

Sadly the sorts of people who would send in complaints about something like that are probably the sorts who will just go on to complain about something else that doesn't justify a complaint.

I wonder if it will even fix anything.

This sounds like a problem with some players submitting complaints just to complain, and the rape complaint was the one they defaulted to.

[Cutthroat]

This new rule wasn't put in place to coddle players whose PCs are victims of rape, or even players whose PCs are accused of rape. The rule was put in place to eliminate confusion in plots and a cheap way to kill PCs. People in this thread keep thinking the rule was set up to benefit certain players. The rule was set up to benefit staff and streamline what happens IG. It also forces players to focus more on the other "harsh" things PCs can do to each other, which are incidentally things players can't put player complaints about as much.

[boog]

Cheap way to kill PCs?

I mean, we could argue that about a lot of PKs. :/