Using weapons ...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd like to see what hand a weapon can be used in defined by weight, not flags.

While these are all arbitrary numbers,  assume that you can carry 100 stones. You would be able to main-hand a 10 stone weapon, off-hand a 5 stone weapon, or two-hand a 20 stone weapon.

[Delirium]

I'm pretty sure it already works like this.

[Twilight]

Nope.  There are certain weapons, typically larger ones, that you cannot hold in your off hand.  The code simply won't let you, even if it is a human-strength weapon and you have far above human strength.

Of course, if they don't have that flag (or lack that flag, maybe it is a lack of a HOLD flag), it works that way, with weight as what determines what you can wield where.

[bcw81]

Ohgod. I can't fathom what a half-giant warrior could do dual wielding two fucking greatswords.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Yeah, I've tried it before with HGs, but you also have to take into consideration that the ICly, when a HG is using a weapon, it is sized for him.  The problem is that that weapons don't have racial sizes like clothing/armor does.  We can't just go around RPing that all weapons are Human sized or whatever, as that wouldn't work for HGs at all.  I know when I RP, I typically consider a HG's weapon to be much larger than a human sized one and RP accordingly.  Now when I am playing a HG, I RP accordingly when a Human gives me a weapon to look at... handling it as if it was much smaller.  One of the sad limitations of code.

[tiptoe]

Yeah, I've tried it before with HGs, but you also have to take into consideration that the ICly, when a HG is using a weapon, it is sized for him.  The problem is that that weapons don't have racial sizes like clothing/armor does.  We can't just go around RPing that all weapons are Human sized or whatever, as that wouldn't work for HGs at all.  I know when I RP, I typically consider a HG's weapon to be much larger than a human sized one and RP accordingly.  Now when I am playing a HG, I RP accordingly when a Human gives me a weapon to look at... handling it as if it was much smaller.  One of the sad limitations of code.

I don't think that's true, actually. There are specific oversized weapons that are made with half giants in mind... And there are also weapons that are described as being much smaller. I think weapons are pretty static in their sizes, and don't change based on the user. You wouldn't really get a weapon "sized," you'd just get a bigger, heavier weapon if you want a bigger one. It wouldn't really be plausible to have a weapon enlarged like you can do to clothes/armor, you know?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Weapons are, indeed, static, and that's why I would rather see weight be the deciding factor in whether you can or can't wield something. I have had weapons that were twice as light as my off hand weapon, that couldn't be using off-hand because of a wear flag.

Yeh, giants might use a human sized greatsword in one hand. I don't really care - they're giants. Meanwhile, a weak elf might have to etwo a simple obsidian longsword. Again, don't care ... it's a stringy elf.

[bcw81]

Despite the fact that a HG probably -could- hold a greatsword in his second hand, I think codedly a HG with two massive weapons like that would be even -more- overpowered than they currently are. I mean, really, they would basically one-shot anything with that kind of brute force.

Ohwait...

Right, half-giants.

Nevermind then.

[BleakOne]

I generally just imagine the weapons being sized appropriately for their wielder. Some weapons mention being titanic, gigantic or whatever and yet are 'only' six feet or so in length in their desc, which would be a little on the small side for a twelve to fourteen foot HG to wield in two hands.

Also, some particularly strong dwarves can wield those weapons made just for HGs.

So yeah, I generally go with the 'it's big/small for the person wielding it' way of thinking.

[tiptoe]

I generally just imagine the weapons being sized appropriately for their wielder. Some weapons mention being titanic, gigantic or whatever and yet are 'only' six feet or so in length in their desc, which would be a little on the small side for a twelve to fourteen foot HG to wield in two hands.

Also, some particularly strong dwarves can wield those weapons made just for HGs.

So yeah, I generally go with the 'it's big/small for the person wielding it' way of thinking.

But if all (or most) weapons have descriptions of size in their descriptions, and a valued weight...How can that change from person to person?

A dwarf wielding a HG weapon will be a tiny person with a gigantic weapon. There's no variation to it. It doesn't magically become smaller because a dwarf is wielding it. Weight doesn't change. Description doesn't change. If a HG is holding a HG weapon, and passes it off to a human who for some reason can wield it...does it become smaller? If he goes off and starts using it at a later date, is it magically sized to him? No. That's nonsense. It's still a HG weapon.

Yes, six feet would be small for a HG. But it's a harsh game and finding the perfect weapon for your character is meant to be difficult. I think deciding to interpret weapon sizes based on the wielder is ignoring the code and the reality of the object. It can ruin immersion to everyone else around you. There are no weapon tailors, and it wouldn't make sense for there to be any.

[BleakOne]

Good points, Tiptoe, and obviously weapons which change hands and aren't purchased particularly for a certain character don't change size. Nonetheless, it's a bit odd to see even half-giant NPCs walking around etwo-ing weapons barely longer than their forearms.

[tiptoe]

Good points, Tiptoe, and obviously weapons which change hands and aren't purchased particularly for a certain character don't change size. Nonetheless, it's a bit odd to see even half-giant NPCs walking around etwo-ing weapons barely longer than their forearms.

It is! And I think more people should take that into account. I can dual wield a fork if I really try, but it looks weird as hell.

Edited to add: Weapons you buy from merchants are static, too. If a dwarf and a HG go into a shop and each buy a bone longsword, they're not different sizes. They're still the same size sword. I'm not sure if that's what you were implying.

[RogueGunslinger]

That would leave half-giants with a total of about 3 weapons they can realistically wield then.

[X-D]

Actually about seven, there are several mastercraft weapons out there meant for HG's...course, it would not be all that hard to add say 10-15 more, and cover whatever style/type the HG might want.


Also, right now I am also one of those people that assumes any weapon a HG picks up is HG sized. I do not care about the coded desc at that point because the option is to see that HG wielding "The thick baobab club" Look club. This  knotted branch of baobab is just over a cord long.....Alright, So, somehow that HG is beating a mek to death with a weapon that is SMALLER THEN HIS FIST!? Or, That HG brutally stabs the inix with a bone knife...look knife "This bone knife is a half a cord long..." Now wait, that means around a 3-4" blade....hell the blade is barely larger then his pinky nail and the entire knife is smaller then said finger...So, if I imagine that the HG is really using a weapon as described in the mdesc, then that is like picturing Andre the Giant brutally stabbing a rhino with half a toothpick daintily held in two fingers. The bonus of playing a RP mud is that we have a grey area on how we play/see such things.

[tiptoe]

I totally disagree with the "grey area" thing, though. There are specific constraints that are offered by the mud (coded size, weight, description). How is it ok to just ignore those and pretend like they are a completely different weapon from person to person? Do cups get larger if they're served to a HG versus a dwarf? Does food get bigger? Are these all grey areas I had no idea existed?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

No. This is just a specific area where we've sort of learned to adapt our thinking. The same thing happens with container objects - cloaks and belts and the like. They only have one size, so the cloak will fit a dwarf, or a giant. Certainly, that's not realistic either. But it's the way things have been handled by the code for many years.

[tiptoe]

Most cloaks have to be sized. Or at least a decent percentage of them. And belts.. I always figured they were adjustable. So...they can get bigger and smaller.

I'm not sure why this bothers me so much. I just always worked really hard with my HGs to find a weapon that was of the suitable size. And apparently I never needed to be putting forth that kind of effort because daggers grow to fit somehow.

[X-D]

In fact, Most cloaks do NOT need to be resized. In fact, NO container object needs be resized...Be that cloak, boots, belt, gloves etc, if you can put something in it, it is one size fits all. These are current code limitations,  And So, we use that grey area so that we can play with items that will fit on a Halfling and then a HG can pick up and wear. Weapons also currently are limited by code...I do not believe that it is the intent to make a Half-giant wield a Halfling sized weapon, just as I don't think it is the intent to allow a dwarf to wield a club bigger then he is, but currently the limits to the code mean that they can. So, to make it work RP wise, one does indeed need to implement the grey area between code and  RP.

Adjustable....Sorry, that is even harder for me to play. though amusing...Hg gives elf a belt, Elf wraps belt around himself 6 times.

Although, I am not telling -you- how to play it, we each have our own ways of making it work...Still, if you do think them adjustable, you are also using that grey area 

I wonder how hard it would be to give objects a couple more flag slots and actually make/use race flags on them?

Tell you one amusing one to me. A certain item made for half-giants, and seeing it on a human...When the item says THIS IS AS BIG AS A WARDROBE...YES, IT IS TALLER, WIDER and THICKER then the HUMAN wearing it!!!

Course I can never make the HG that carries a trunk/chest everywhere deal work...I mean really, if he is carrying this hard object half his size around under his arm, how exactly is he riding/fighting with a two handed weapon or weapon and shield and not dropping it? But that is another thread I guess.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

See, I think that we could fix that - if we take wear flags off from weapons, and then make sure they are all described right, and then add some giant-type weapons to the game, I'd be a happy fella. What I'd probably do is eradicate two or three adjectives from short descriptions for weapons meant for most people, like humongous, monolithic, and maybe ... I dunno. Massive, let's say.

Then every giant weapon would be have one of those adjectives attached to the sdesc, so that the difference was quite plain.

[Drayab]

Or flag all the giant equipment to ensure only giants use it.

I'm unsure on this one. I agree the status quo isn't ideal, but I find it to be a manageable grey area. I suppose if there was a motivated builder on staff that wanted to tackle this, I would be pleased to see this part of the game get some polish.

[tiptoe]

Totally forgot about container limitations. And that a lot of cloaks are containers...

But anyway. I think what bothers me about the weapon size adjusting to the user is that weapons wouldn't really work if they -could- be resized (at least based on my limited weapon knowledge). I just can't see a way that a sword could be elongated and still be balanced. Or have more stone added to the blade. Or make the handle longer. I think that's my problem with it. A weaponcrafter sits down with limited materials and crafts an item that in my mind would not be able to be resized. I mean, I guess you could chop the wooden club in half. But an obsidian sword? I don't think there's much option for that to change size.

I could see it if maybe it's rped as the merchant making bigger/smaller versions of the weapon. Maybe.

And I know it's just a limitation of the code. But I feel like since there -are- specific weapons with specific sizes, it seems like a shortcut to pretend they work for whatever size character you're using them with.

Flagging items for use with certain races may help. And going back to the original topic, having weapons not be strictly primary hand use only would be nice. Maybe if it just went by weight and based on strength...or something like that.

[Yummri]

Couldn't this also be fixed during a creation process. The idea being to encourage more people to approach a crafter than just by from an npc.

Maybe just add a size to the recipe.

craft log into club giant
craft bone into knife gaint
craft log into two-haned dwarf
craft bone into letteropener - with no size it defaults to human.

Custom sized weapons require a custom touch so to speak. And obiously I have no idea how the code works to even know if this is possible. But I feel a more applicable fix.

And there will always be a grey-area between reality, code and the way the two interact. As their should be in any rp game. The degree varies from game to game and from player to player. And I have to say. I can see both sides of the coin here.

[Barsook]

+1 to the crafting system for weapons as Yummri suggested.  And also, if not said already, have a size thing with weapons when they are brought from a (coded) merchant, just like clothes.  Well, when there is more than one of that item.