Psionics and Social Views

[thewolfen3]

I actually have a question that has been making me curious, and that's, how does the average citizen anyplace view the use of basic psionic skills? I mean, how would they view someone that tends to keep up a barrier? Or someone that can use the 'expel' and push people from their mind? Besides contact, is there any kinda actual social regard given to what may be accessible by most, but seem to be used less?

[Jherlen]

Generally speaking if it's a skill that is accessible to normal PCs, I don't think using it would be viewed with the same hatred that mindbenders are seen with. Someone that keeps up a barrier is just someone who wants more privacy and doesn't like the Way - sort of akin to a person in real life that hates answering their phone or their door. Someone who can expel has spent a lot of time and effort honing their mental skills. There's nothing terribly unusual about both cases socially, though perhaps a person might be seen in some circles as unnecessarily paranoid and jumpy, and in other circles as savvy and careful.

[thewolfen3]

That makes sense, thank ya! I've wondered about that with psionics because besides Mindbenders are crazy, I haven't noted that much theme about the regular psionic prowess. The question is, what would make someone seem like a mindbender, if it can be said, and not reveal any game secrets? Or could expel used when ya are upset be considered bad form socially?

[RogueGunslinger]

It would be considered rude, I'm sure, sort of like hanging up on someone. Beyond that I doubt it would have any link to mind-benders.

[Jherlen]

Expel is probably pretty rude, I always imagined it as sort of the mental equivalent of hanging up the phone on someone while also shouting really loudly right into their ear.

As for what would make someone seem like a mindbender, that's definitely best left to find out IC. If it's over the Way, and it ain't contact or barrier or expel... it's probably not good.

[Barsook]

I only have seen expel used once IC and the PC did say it was rude indeed.

[ShaLeah]

Lots of my characters do most of their business/socializing through The Way. I've rarely branched into expel but when I have I use it solely rudely. Unfortunately lots of times I get a 'wtf?!? what'd you do that for?!?!' and have to 'd'oh! sorry, wasn't for YOU, it was for fulano de tal cause of xyz'.

There are only three psionic skills available to normals. I don't think there should be any thoughts of mindbending in witnessing any of those.

[Zoltan]

Expel is painful, so I always viewed it akin to someone socking you in the face. It's a bit more than just rude for me, more like an attack. Your mileage may vary.

[RogueGunslinger]

Expel is painful, so I always viewed it akin to someone socking you in the face. It's a bit more than just rude for me, more like an attack. Your mileage may vary.

Sure but generally it's only used for people you wouldn't mind socking in the face. 

[ShaLeah]

Expel is painful, so I always viewed it akin to someone socking you in the face. It's a bit more than just rude for me, more like an attack. Your mileage may vary.

Sure but generally it's only used for people you wouldn't mind socking in the face. 

New character concept, dorf (of course) whose sole focus is to befriend everyone like he's such a nice guy then master expel so that he can show them how he REALLY feels by kicking them out of his head every time then waying them back, apologizing and repeating that ad nauseum until he's executed.


This is why I don't play dorfs.

[Qzzrbl]

Expel is painful, so I always viewed it akin to someone socking you in the face. It's a bit more than just rude for me, more like an attack. Your mileage may vary.

It's literally a kick in the brain with a psionic foot.

[Yasbusta]

Expel is not polite.

Hey Amos how are you doing?

Amos reaches back and punches you in the face.

Gee Amos that's alright your a pal.

Fuck that I'm hitting Amos back.

[X-D]

Heh, I had one once that went like this.


Someone contacts you.

Expel.

Someone contacts you.

Expel.


Someone contacts you.

Expel.

Someone contacts you.

Wait.

Lord Templar hardnose sends, "STOP THAT!"

The burly dwarf  snickers quietly.

Expel.

[Ouroboros]

In my experience, expel can be viewed in more than one way. It can be the "hangs up by slamming the receiver on the phone" end to a fight or shouting match over the Way, it can be the "I don't have the patience for this shit right now" attitude, it can be the "Oh crap, shit just got serious here" way to clear your mind and focus on whatever you're doing in-person, it can be a lot of things. So there's leeway for interpretation there.

Given its mechanics are known to the populace, it also shouldn't always be assumed that it was directed at you unless it clearly was. Expel pushes everyone out of your head, it's not selective, so if you're having a Way-fight with your partner while ignoring the others contacting you for different reasons, and you expel, everyone gets pushed out. The reaction should be different then, between say your partner and a potential customer asking for something. Your partner might be fuming over it and eager to drive a shiv in your back, but the potential client would likely realize the expel wasn't about them and that it's probably not the best time to contact that person, but wouldn't go on a rampage over being expelled.

[Ourla]

Heh, I had one once that went like this.


Someone contacts you.

Expel.

Someone contacts you.

Expel.


Someone contacts you.

Expel.

Someone contacts you.

Wait.

Lord Templar hardnose sends, "STOP THAT!"

The burly dwarf  snickers quietly.

Expel.

That was me.  You bastard.

[Scarecrow]

I got expel once, and contacted my worst enemy. I Wayed him for a moment and then expelled him just for lolz. It did seem very rude but I have no regrets.

[Potaje]

One time during way sex, I finished first and expelled the other before they could finish just to establish my selfish ways.

[shadeoux]

One time during way sex, I finished first and expelled the other before they could finish just to establish my selfish ways.

+1

[Zoan]

Is way sex actually a thing? I thought we were just being facetious...

[Bogre]

Expel is probably seen as rude.

Superiors might be annoyed with their subordinates having barrier up all the time- I mean how are you supposed to get them to run to the cheese and wine hut if they're NOT ANSWERING.

[Ol 55]

Expel is one of the best skills in the game.  It says, "Way me again with your bullshit.  I dare you."  I will try to string out a conversation so that there is moderate stun loss, and aim to knock you out.

The social view of expel depends on the relationship of the two parties.  X-D's example is a funny counter to the norm.

Contact and barrier are used very often, and are applied with no stigma.

[thewolfen3]

Would doing meditations with friends, also asking them and assist with training the ability, be considered okay way and roleplay training it if you keep such IC?

[Saellyn]

As long as your request doesn't involve "so I can learn to read minds", sure! It's perfectly IC to -want- to train skills like that,

[The Lonely Hunter]

"Would doing meditations with friends, also asking them and assist with training the ability, be considered okay way and roleplay training it if you keep such IC?"

I would say that it is shaky ground, at best. Being able to communicate over the way is an inherit ability natural to everyone, like talking. However, there is a large fear of mindbenders so if you take too much of an interest in it suspicions, sometimes unfounded, may arise and in Zalanthas suspicions can easily lead to murder (think Burning Times). Better safe than sorry when it comes to a mindbender!

I have also considered the use of expel to be less casual than most other people seem to based on my observations of posts here. I haven't been able to find anywhere in the psionic help files that are readily available where it refers to it as being common or on the same level of thought as barrier and contact. I could easily see the use of expel raising suspicions (perhaps less when used by nobles since they are just plain better and smarter than commoners anyway) but I digress.

"Psionicists have come to be known as mindbenders, and masters of the Way. They deal with manipulation of the Way, bending it to serve their plots and designs. Because of their ability to deal directly with people's minds, true psionicists are killed on sight (though of course none would be so foolish as to announce their presence openly, just as a defiler would not) in just about every civilized region of Zalanthas, due to their highly dangerous potential."

[maxid]

"Would doing meditations with friends, also asking them and assist with training the ability, be considered okay way and roleplay training it if you keep such IC?"

A bunch of words

Nope.  It is perfectly fine and accepted to practice barriers/waying/even expels in certain groups, and it has literally nothing to do with mindbenders.

Psionic powers are a natural part of every day life.  Mind benders are weird because what they do is SUPERnatural.   There is no IC reason to suspect a person of being a mindbender when they use the 3 skills associated with mundanes, as literally every thinking being on the planet can do them.  It would be akin to accusing everyone who pees of being a vivaduan because they're 'making water'.  Contact, Barrier, and Expel are 100% mundane in terms of the setting.  There should be no suspicious associated with them at all without an extreme character concept that doesn't really fit into the game world.

[The Lonely Hunter]

What is your reference point?

[RogueGunslinger]

A good reference point would be that only humans can be mindbenders, but every race can use expel and barrier.

[maxid]

What is your reference point?

I highly suggest you read through this, it will help you understand the world you're playing in.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/about.php

Don't forget to keep reading through, as a lot of information is contained on that website.

Feel free to pm/IM me if you have more questions.

[MeTekillot]

dOHOHOHOHO


YOU REALLY GOT HIM THERE, AHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

[maxid]

I just pointed him to the helpfiles and themefiles, where it is clearly laid out that every race in the world has psionic powers, and they're completely mundane and then offered to help him out if he needed more help.  There's no need to be a jerk about it.

[Lizzie]

I just pointed him to the helpfiles and themefiles, where it is clearly laid out that every race in the world has psionic powers, and they're completely mundane and then offered to help him out if he needed more help.  There's no need to be a jerk about it.

The Lonely Hunter is a veteran player. I think that's why your post was perceived to be a bit on the condescending side (though it is very clear that you didn't intend it that way).

[maxid]

The Lonely Hunter is a veteran player. I think that's why your post was perceived to be a bit on the condescending side (though it is very clear that you didn't intend it that way).

Ah, I've never heard of a veteran player who was unfamiliar with the fact that the basic 3 psionic powers are used by literally everyone  .  Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as a jerk, it just.. I mean how do you not understand that?

[Is Friday]

accusing everyone who pees of being a vivaduan because they're 'making water'. 

Random urge.

[Lizzie]

FWIW Maxid, I didn't think you were being a jerk. I thought it was cute

[RogueGunslinger]

I just pointed him to the helpfiles and themefiles, where it is clearly laid out that every race in the world has psionic powers, and they're completely mundane and then offered to help him out if he needed more help.  There's no need to be a jerk about it.

The problem is it's a rather moot point without being coupled with the idea that only humans are mindbenders. Which I'm sure not everyone knows. Add with it the general condescending manner you had... It's easy to see how you could be misinterpreted if you're really not being-

The Lonely Hunter is a veteran player. I think that's why your post was perceived to be a bit on the condescending side (though it is very clear that you didn't intend it that way).

Ah, I've never heard of a veteran player who was unfamiliar with the fact that the basic 3 psionic powers are used by literally everyone  .  Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as a jerk, it just.. I mean how do you not understand that?

Nope, definitely being snide...

[maxid]

I just pointed him to the helpfiles and themefiles, where it is clearly laid out that every race in the world has psionic powers, and they're completely mundane and then offered to help him out if he needed more help.  There's no need to be a jerk about it.

The problem is it's a rather moot point without being coupled with the idea that only humans are mindbenders. Which I'm sure not everyone knows. Add with it the general condescending manner you had... It's easy to see how you could be misinterpreted if you're really not being-

The Lonely Hunter is a veteran player. I think that's why your post was perceived to be a bit on the condescending side (though it is very clear that you didn't intend it that way).

Ah, I've never heard of a veteran player who was unfamiliar with the fact that the basic 3 psionic powers are used by literally everyone  .  Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as a jerk, it just.. I mean how do you not understand that?

Nope, definitely being snide...

I actually wasn't, and even apologized for it.  Please quit trolling the thread, it was a misunderstanding. 

[The Lonely Hunter]

Instead of being defensive and changing focus, I am still looking for a reference from you which says anything regarding expel being so common. The files refer to contact and barrier being common, not expel. I haven't come across one at least but please, do share if you have found one. It is possible I have overlooked it, people make mistakes. For example just last week I thought that I was wrong but it turns out that I wasn't.

I have come across several references which mention how hated and feared psions are and based on the game world I think that it is safer to assume that showing too much interested in psionic abilities and their development could likely get you killed.

Not all humans have the ability to expel someone from their mind, I'm not sure why it keeps being referred to as such. From a code perspective perhaps it is eventually possible but not every human is born with it or will ever develop it. Based on the fear associated with advanced forms of the way I believe that it would be safe to assume that those that do have the ability are viewed as a little weird and perhaps even suspicious.

[Riya OniSenshi]

If nothing else, staff have stated it here: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,46959.msg803302.html#msg803302
and here: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,27455.0.html

By virtue of expel having its own help file on the website, like contact, barrier and psi, it is reasonable to assume it is common to the game's world.

[The Lonely Hunter]

The only part of those two posts that may be relevant is, "You can do one of three things as a normal, hum-drum Zalanthan:".

So, it is established that -some- normal Zalanthans can use the expel ability. But my point remains the same; not everyone has the ability to use this. Those that can use the ability may be viewed as a little off...like a contortionist maybe?

I also stand by my observation that having too much of an interest in honing and developing your ability with the way may raise suspicion, no matter how unfounded.

Most sentient creatures have the abilities to send messages through the 'Way,' as is called the psionic ether, and the ability to form a 'barrier' around their minds so that no one can send them messages, or enter their minds.

[Riya OniSenshi]

I don't think you bothered to read the page on the second link where Tiernan quotes himself from the discussion thread for that change (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,27454.0.html):

IC, the expel ability should considered as common as contact and barrier. It's a basic component of the Way and has naturally developed and evolved. It isn't some grand new phenomenon that has suddenly expanded the mental abilities of the general populace. It's always been this way. I also think it's safe to say that, in general, it would be considered rude to get thrown out of someone else's mind, as it is a particularly aggressive and unpleasant experience. However, I will leave that up to you folks to decide how your character feels about being shoved out.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I sure didn't see that. Sorry and thanks for pointing it out!

I also missed where it is now a starting ability for everyone; something inherent that all people have.

Thats what I get for using the game documentation instead of the GDB as a source!

[Riya OniSenshi]

Now you're just being willfully contrary.

If you think the docs and staff and the rest of us are lying to you, send in a question with the request tool and ask for clarification.

[FantasyWriter]

Thats what I get for using the game documentation instead of the GDB as a source!

Re Game Docs Argument: All players can access the helpfile for expel.
                                    Psionicists/magick users can only access the helpfiles for spells/supernatural powers once they branch them (i.e. - Shows up in their skill list.)