Skill:DyEing

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

So, those who have the dying skill would be able to dye stuff without having to add new crafting recipes.

Using the packets of dye, someone with the dying skill could simple 'use packet sword'. The effect would be a simple perm flag, like the blackened flag.

>inv
You are carrying:
a bone disk-headed axe
a packet of rose red dye

>l axe
  This relatively short axe, perhaps a cord and a half in overall length,
has a head crafted from a single disk-shaped section of grey bone. The head
is sharpened along its entire edge except for where it is wedged into a cut
made in the top of the haft. This latter part consists of a sturdy-looking
piece of grey agafari wood that matches the color of the bone closely.

>use dye axe
You begin to apply a packet of rose red dye to a bone disk-headed axe.

You finish dying a bone disk-headed axe.

>inv
You are carrying:
a rose red bone disk-headed axe

>l axe
  This relatively short axe, perhaps a cord and a half in overall length,
has a head crafted from a single disk-shaped section of grey bone. The head
is sharpened along its entire edge except for where it is wedged into a cut
made in the top of the haft. This latter part consists of a sturdy-looking
piece of grey agafari wood that matches the color of the bone closely.
It has been dyed a rose red.

Edit: Oh, dying. Dyeing. Shut up.

[HavokBlue]

I think this is a neat idea.

[Barsook]

I dig this, makes more sense.

[Barzalene]

Oh my yes!

[Ouroboros]

Not bad at all!

It would need to be limited to bone, wood and fabric, but that's fairly simple as the code to check that is already present in the application of the burned/blackened flag. I would also exclude objects that already have a burned or blackened flag from being valid targets, so we don't end up with items like "a smelly blackened rose red bone disk-headed axe" that would be annoying and not make much sense either. Beyond that it's just a question of whether it's a script applied to dye objects that checks for the skill, or a separate "dye" command (like brew, for example).

If further complexity was desired, the dye could even have a lifespan based on the skill of the one applying it, with master-level making it permanent or lasting a long time (ex. RL month). After that it would fade away from use and could be re-applied. Not needed, but food for thought.

Given it would be limited to characters having the dye skill, I'm all for this since it expands the services such characters can offer without negatively impacting them.

[Pale Horse]

Love it.  It would add a great way to customization to some items for individuals or to organizations that is not directly a part of an item's main description.

Having said that, how do you imagine this would affect items that have their color as part of their short and main description?

[Ouroboros]

Having said that, how do you imagine this would affect items that have their color as part of their short and main description?

Player discretion, I'd say. It would be up to the one applying it to decide whether doing so is appropriate, and up to other players to interpret its application after that. Much like the blackened flag on a colored object is up to our discretion to interpret in how much of the original color is visible and how much is blackened. Given it's a minor and purely cosmetic effect, I feel it's something we can trust players to use realistically and roleplay it's application. For example...

Pointing out the blue-stained handle of his blue pink-flint hand-axe, the tall muscular man says in sirihish:
     "I dyed the wooden handle myself. Looks good with the pink axe-blade, don't it?"

I think the alternative, checking for color keywords on the sdesc before permitting the application, would be a bit too complicated to ask of staff for such a small effect. But that's feasible as well if deemed necessary, and wouldn't waste too many cycles since the check would only happen once during the dye's application.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd like the help file associated with such an addition to include the following phrase, or something simuliar, which designated the staff's outlook on dying items with colors in the sdesc. Below is the dyeing help file, which I have modified to include a blurb on this feature, were it implemented.



Skill Dyeing                                                         (Skill)

   Skilled merchants may have this ability, enabling them to color various
items. This requires both the item to be dyed and a dye of the appropriate
color. They are also able to blend and create dyes.

Syntax:
craft (item1) (item2) into (desired result)
Example(s):
> craft packet length into length of red sandcloth

> craft stone into packet of silver dye

> craft feather dye into blue-dyed feather

> craft blue red into couple packets of purple dye

   If you have this skill, you may also use packets of dye to add a color
flag to the short description of an item. It is considered bad form to dye
an item which already includes a color in the sdesc, with the exception of
rare cases where it grammatically makes sense.
   For instance, dyeing 'the bone, obsidian-bladed sword' is acceptable, but
dyeing 'the heavy, obsidian-colored sword' is not. If you are in doubt as to
whether an item should be dyed or not, do not dye it. Other players will
likely treat your unrealistically dyed object as though it is trash. Using
dye packets to dye objects will not raise your dying skill level.

Syntax:
use (dye) (object)
Example(s):
> use dye sandcloth.cuirass

> use tan.dye scrab.breastplate

See Also:
crafting, fletchery

[Jherlen]

I came to this thread expecting it to be about a new skill for characters to use when they want to die. My reply was going to be: "Haven't most of us mastered dying by now?"

Anyway, I like this idea a lot!

[Lizzie]

This basically renders the need to dye fabrics totally useless. You'd just have to make/buy a white/undyed item, and dye it whatever color your like. And then you can sell it for whatever the going rate is for the colored item (which can be significantly higher, in some cases).  There are already crafting recipes which require you to dye the base material in order to get the colored result. I wouldn't want anything to mess with that requirement.

I don't think it should be applicable to clothing or armor at all, for that reason. I do like the idea of dying handles/shafts/hilts of weapons.  Something basic like..

if the sdesc has handle, hilt, pommel, or shaft in it, then the item can have a dye applied to it and the sdesc would be appended with the color word in the front.

So like

the bone-hilted obsidian sword

would become

the green, bone-hilted obsidian sword.

and

the moonstone-pommelled dagger

could become

the purple, moonstone-pommelled dagger.

I think it just plain shouldn't work with anything else, because then you're starting to deal with points of grammar that might or might not make any sense.

[Barzalene]

I think you should have to dye ingredients not the finished item.

[FreeRangeVestric]

I came to this thread expecting it to be about a new skill for characters to use when they want to die. My reply was going to be: "Haven't most of us mastered dying by now?"

Anyway, I like this idea a lot!

I've not failed at dying enough to master it yet...

[BleakOne]

Dying is one skill I excel at. 

[solera]

Dying, it's like the analyze skill, you've either got it or you haven't and you never get any better at it

[Ouroboros]

I'd like the help file associated with such an addition to include the following phrase... <snip>

I imagine a warning of some sort would be warranted, yeah.

This basically renders the need to dye fabrics totally useless. You'd just have to make/buy a white/undyed item, and dye it whatever color your like. And then you can sell it for whatever the going rate is for the colored item (which can be significantly higher, in some cases).  There are already crafting recipes which require you to dye the base material in order to get the colored result. I wouldn't want anything to mess with that requirement.

The concept as proposed wouldn't mess with that, nor would what you suggested work. If you took a pair of white linen gloves and dyed them blue with the skill as proposed, you'd end up with a pair of blue-dyed white linen gloves, not a pair of blue linen gloves. The value of a dyed item wouldn't change at all, as this is purely cosmetic. Assuming they cost more in the first place of course, a pair of blue linen gloves that was crafted that way to begin with would still cost more than a pair of blue-dyed white linen gloves. And PC's that wanted the "real thing" would still opt to purchase the ones crafted blue to begin with.

I think you should have to dye ingredients not the finished item.

That's something entirely different than what's proposed, and also entirely unfeasible as it stands. What that would entail is the creation of new recipes for both each of those ingredients with colored variations as well as new recipes for each of those finished products. The crafting code of Arm 2 handled this amazingly well, but they had the benefit of starting from scratch and not having to convert the two decades or so worth of items into that system.

Dying, it's like the analyze skill, you've either got it or you haven't and you never get any better at it

Unless that was a follow-up to the joke of death as a skill, that's entirely untrue. It's a skill like any other crafting skill and does indeed raise with practice, to whatever cap your guild/sub permits.

[Lizzie]

The blue-dyed white linen gloves thing makes no sense at all. How would anyone - even a master crafter - know that the gloves were originally white? How would they know they didn't start out as black gloves that were bleached and a new color applied to them? Or purple, or orange? Or - raw, undyed linen. How would they even be able to tell when the gloves were dyed - before they were sewn or after? If you use thread that you dye the same color as the linen, then there would be no way to tell the difference between "linen and thread that were dyed before turning them into gloves" and "linen and thread turned into gloves and then dyed."

If that's the result being suggested, then that won't work at all, because it serves no purpose, it has no function other than to provide more confusion to people who are just looking for a pair of gloves, made of linen, and dyed blue.

[manipura]

Dying, it's like the analyze skill, you've either got it or you haven't and you never get any better at it

Unless that was a follow-up to the joke of death as a skill, that's entirely untrue. It's a skill like any other crafting skill and does indeed raise with practice, to whatever cap your guild/sub permits.

Pretty sure it was referring to 'dying' and 'dyeing' being completely different things.

I wandered into this thread thinking it would be something about a death skill

For the record, I don't really care for this whole dyeing idea, but that's just my opinion.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Goodness.

It would be bad form to dye items with a color in the sdesc, unless it worked grammarically.

A blue pair of white linen gloves would not work.

A blue pair of red-embroidered gloves would work.

A blue black-collared, red-hide vest would not work.

A blue black-collared, gortok-hide vest would work (althought some poeple might think it ugly, and that's fine.).

It's up to the people dying them to make sure that the idea works. If it doesn't, then you can laugh at them IC for looking stupid.

[Ouroboros]

The blue-dyed white linen gloves thing makes no sense at all. How would anyone - even a master crafter - know that the gloves were originally white?

Because the main desc would continue to illustrate gloves that were white, and would have a one-liner appended after it as all other flags do. A master crafter could just analyze the gloves, but either way no one would be that confused as to what the gloves originally where. Just like no one is that confused by blackened objects.

If that's the result being suggested, then that won't work at all, because it serves no purpose, it has no function other than to provide more confusion to people who are just looking for a pair of gloves, made of linen, and dyed blue.

Read through the example of the guideline 7DV suggested and/or the response I posted to Pale Horse's post. It should be clear then what's being suggested and what restrictions are meant to accompany this.

[boog]

Dying, it's like the analyze skill, you've either got it or you haven't and you never get any better at it

Unless that was a follow-up to the joke of death as a skill, that's entirely untrue. It's a skill like any other crafting skill and does indeed raise with practice, to whatever cap your guild/sub permits.

Pretty sure it was referring to 'dying' and 'dyeing' being completely different things.

I wandered into this thread thinking it would be something about a death skill

For the record, I don't really care for this whole dyeing idea, but that's just my opinion.

I was thinking the same thing. "Dying? A skill?!" And then, I saw. And I am giggling because some people were so mad about spelling and grammar in the other thread. Aiyee!

I think the base idea is good, but it might be awkward codewise to implement. Then again, I'm not overly familiar with DIKU, or at least, am not so much any more. I thought that Atonement's customization code was so very cumbersome and confusing for players to work that this idea, while interesting and awesome in theory, might not work out so well, codedly.

[Ouroboros]

I think the base idea is good, but it might be awkward codewise to implement. Then again, I'm not overly familiar with DIKU, or at least, am not so much any more. I thought that Atonement's customization code was so very cumbersome and confusing for players to work that this idea, while interesting and awesome in theory, might not work out so well, codedly.

This would be cumbersome if done right. If it was implemented as it was planned in Arm 2, for example. What 7DV has proposed however is quite simple, both to code as well as to use. From a code perspective, it's simply a flag like any of the others we have, and thus doesn't affect the crafting process at all. From the crafter's perspective, it's as simple as "dye <object> <dye>" while keeping in mind the intended uses for this as would be outlined in the helpfile (or just basic common sense, really).

What's proposed is not an ideal solution to custom-colored crafts, by any stretch of the imagination. It's just a band-aid. But as such, it's easy to implement as well.