Punctuation, capitalization, grammer

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I am uneducated and considering my age, it amuses me how stupid I am. In fact I make fun of myself frequently, it has grown into a habit. I dropped out of highschool, but graduated. Never went to college. And I have never ever cared for learning or bettering myself in that regard.

But what really effected my playing was coming home from work and having my hands frozen stiff from working in the freezers. My job right now is all heavy lifting and is messing with my hands in a similar manner. When I get home I do have to forcefully pry them open and move them about for awhile, because they do not work 'at all'. And then here I am playing Arm.

wtf idk?

Haha. I work in a freezer too, driving a forklift. I know the feeling.

[evilcabbage]

Hey, I say 'What ever folks.' I suck at sentence structures, get caught up in a moment, heart pounding blood surging through my veins.  My fingers twitch at times, my arthritis stiffens and aches my fingers, especially after hours of typing, or a mad driving sequence. The client I us has no spell check and spelling has never been my strong suite.

If you do not wish to play with me in game, that's you're lost, I get into character, I put heart and personality into them. Sometimes I hit the wrong punctuation go to backspace and hit enter, or go to punctuate and hit enter, I'm not a keyboard wiz, get in a hurry or flustered.

Sometimes I slow down, reread and my mind sees what is written as its intended in that moment, then I look again after hitting enter or when rereading and find my errors.

But because you might need some preparation H to sooth your sphincters because of my typing I not going to stop playing the game.

Nor does it mean I don't try to improve, but I only do that for my self, not for you.

This is perhaps the more common sentiment among those less perfect typists out there.

Edited to respond to the o.p., I agree that ooc is not a good means to respond to the situation, in my own opinion.

To stuff it to some guys on page 2, because you all started to annoy me with your stupid bickering and bitching:

Potaje is someone I have been around. Potaje is someone I have played with. Potaje is someone who "WOULD" fit into the same criteria, except for the fact that he usually capitalizes his first word, he usually RPs fairly well (he always does) and he generally tries very hard to not annoy me. It's pretty much the only reason I can tolerate him (other than him being the funny little foreign man).

There are other newbies or even oldbies who just do not type well. It hurts my eyes to read, it hurts my heart to read, and it's difficult to deal with for me. I still suck it up, but when I read a nicely written desc, I expect to see some nicely written posts. When I don't get some nicely written posts, I start to get annoyed. Do I take it out OOC? No. But I still feel that annoyance.

Which is the root of my issue. How do you bring it up, if at all? Who do you bring it up to? You're all starting a big flame war and I just want one simple fucking answer to this problem, and all you guys can do is bicker about your experiences and fight over it because you think it's funny to argue with each other.

[evilcabbage]

You seem to have confused my stance and also the topic of this thread. I thought we were discussing ways to deal with people who typo or commonly misspell in the game. I'm saying using OOC is not the appropriate way to do that.

You would be incorrect. The thread is about people who regularly reject capitalization, punctuation, or some generally-acceptable routine of grammar.

This has nothing to do with typos or misspellings.

It has everything to do with making an attempt to present your text-based data in a way that is generally regarded as acceptable to the greater English-speaking world. And to be generally regarded as acceptable to the greater English-speaking world, sentences begin with a capital letter, end with some singular form of punctuation, and capitalizing the first letter of a proper noun (such as Chosen Lord, His Faithful, Amos, and yes - I). Everything else is awesome, but this should be the minimum that anyone should expect from everyone else. If it's not much to ask, then why do some people refuse to do it?

First off I'm not wrong. The OP is pretty clearly talking about people who need to "slow down" and are typing too fast.

It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, because I always want to ask OOCly if they can slow down in typing so they can type "better" i.e. have more capitalization and make their sentences sound better.

To the rest of your post I'd say no shit, Sherlock. Nobody is saying that capitalization and punctuation should be avoided. And if it is routinely avoided by someone, you should report them for it. I don't even know why people feel the need to discuss that.

My thread has everything to do with typos, misspellings, lack of capitalization, and people who just do not appear to care or try. It's in the title:  Punctuation, capitalization, grammer.

[manonfire]

You're all starting a big flame war and I just want one simple fucking answer to this problem, and all you guys can do is bicker about your experiences and fight over it because you think it's funny to argue with each other.

im sorry are you new to the gdb sir

also please refer to my sig

[catchall]

Because this has already been alluded to, but the message seems not to have gotten through:


GRAMMAR


I only bring this up because of the subject of the thread.  My opinion is that I'm a linguist, so I don't care one bit about your spelling and grammar.  If your sentence doesn't start with a capital letter, I can just imagine that it does, or ignore it.

[evilcabbage]

go to the beginning of the thread where i stated this was intentional

[Nyr]

This is not something you should break character for; leave it to staff.

[ShaLeah]

This is not something you should break character for; leave it to staff.

So should we make a player complaint if we see someone questioning another on their typing?!

[Lizzie]

This is not something you should break character for; leave it to staff.

By "leave it to staff," do you mean we -should- report instances of "overzealous rejection of punctuation and/or morbid dwarf-capitalization disorder?" Or should we -not- report it, and let the staff notice for themselves, or not, depending on whether or not anyone on staff is actively monitoring the scene?

And, if it should be reported (or if you feel we should feel comfortable reporting it as an option, rather than an obligation) - should it be reported in a player complaint? Or as an "idea" on the PC in question, or as a wish to alert staff so that they can monitor the scene if they want to?

[Nyr]

I don't believe we've ever contacted someone solely over their inability to end a sentence with punctuation. 

Usually if someone is missing end punctuation, they're also missing middle punctuation...and capitalization...and other basic rules of grammar.  So we've definitely contacted someone over all of that TOGETHER, yes.  Especially if they're in a karma role.

Yet in game proper punctuation is considered part of good RP. It does make a difference in game, I am just not sure how to explain why.

The reason it makes a difference is immersion.

Let me tell you something, Bastard. Never forget what you are, the rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you.

let me tell you something bastard

never forget wat you are

teh rest of the world will not

where it liek armor and it can never be used too hurt you

ok sarge lets do rough circle now

I've only stepped in when someone's lack of regard for grammar, spelling, punctuation, or capitalization is a habitual problem.  It's especially noticeable if they're playing a role that requires a special app or any amount of karma, as that kind of habitual behavior reflects badly on our standards for those roles.  I'll copy and paste one a couple of the pertinent things I've sent in the past about that:

Something has come to our attention that has been noted for some time, but I suppose it has been hoped that improvement would occur over time.  However, it has not.  Please improve on using punctuation, capitalization, and the like while you play this game.  While we don't crack down on typos or silly things like that, we do take a look at habitual problems, and this seems like one of those--it is not a thing that happens from time to time, but something that happens on a regular basis.  Communication is important in a text-based game, and it can be very jarring when you do not take the time to communicate as effectively as you can.

or

Also, it would be very much appreciated if you could make an effort to improve your capitalization and punctuation in the game. Making mistakes is something that can be expected, but this seems to be something habitual that you have done even after a helpful suggestion to improve from a player. As this is a roleplay intensive game (and a game based around words as it is), we do hope to see players use their words effectively so that they can communicate well. Without that communication in a legible manner, it is difficult to understand.

New players that can't handle grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization to a reasonable extent usually can't make it through the application process.

I've been a little more blunt at times when the situation calls for it (i.e., habitual oversights like this are just the icing on the cake and not the only issue we are e-mailing about) but that's generally what we will do--only step in if it is a habitual issue.

We can take a look at them if we're not already aware, sure.  If there's a discrepancy and we disagree that there's really an issue, we can also let you know that, too.  Everyone wins!

[Lizzie]

It's very helpful and encouraging to know that the staff will step in when they feel it's appropriate (AND that they'll let it slide when letting it slide is appropriate).

I'm still wondering how we, as players, should deal with the situation.

Should we:

1) assume that the staff is watching, and do nothing.
2) wish up to alert the staff that monitoring a situation might be in order
3) send a player complaint
4) use the "idea" command to suggest that someone have the "offending person" contact a helper/send a note encouraging them to punctuate and capitalize
5) any combination or all of the above
6) none of the above
7) aliens

[Nyr]

It's very helpful and encouraging to know that the staff will step in when they feel it's appropriate (AND that they'll let it slide when letting it slide is appropriate).

I'm still wondering how we, as players, should deal with the situation.

From the same quotes and threads that I quoted:

If someone is doing well in every other respect is it best to ignore it and lead by example and expect improvement or send in a request for staff to send a (hopefully gentle) suggestion for improvement?

We can take a look at them if we're not already aware, sure.  If there's a discrepancy and we disagree that there's really an issue, we can also let you know that, too.  Everyone wins!

Send in a request.

[Lizzie]

Ah okay, thanks. I have master google-fu but it sucks up all my fu-chi and leaves me nothing for GDB search-fu, I'm afraid.

I really think you should let us pick option 7 too though.

[evilcabbage]

So just to officialize it, is it a "player complaint" we send, and just explain that it's not as serious as "Blah blah killed me and didn't emote anything or say anything and blah blah", it's more "I've been RPing with x player for a while, and it seems like their grammer is having issues. I'd like to help them improve, but I realize it's not my place, so if you could send them a message coaxing them to try a little harder, that would be appreciated"?

[RogueGunslinger]

Complaining about a player is complaining about a player. There's no need to sugar coat it. What do you think, staff just blindly start terminating people who get complaints?

[maxid]

hi i'd like to note that it really bothers me when people don't know how to type and mispell words on the gdb too

thanks.

[Barsook]

I'm okay with people doing it in the GDB, but NOT IC.

[Fujikoma]

I generally gloss over it for the sake of the story. If punctuation and spelling are there but there are no capital letters, I'm not going to exclude someone over it. It can be jarring at first, and still a little meh later, but generally someone is really making the attempt to play, just, I dunno, maybe their shift key is broken?

Million things could be going on on their end I don't understand. If punctuation isn't always proper, I let that slide too. Spelling is a little harder, but some of these people, maybe they have some difficulties, and maybe with encouragement instead of punishment, will one day conform. In the meantime, there's plenty of fun to be had in spite of, or perhaps because of, how much of a butter-fingers you are with your keyboard.

Honestly, I'd prefer it be perfect, yes, but life has taught me to accept that even imperfect things can be enjoyable. How else would I have any friends?

EDIT: LMAO, ok, that last bit sounds a bit arrogant, what I meant to say was, if people did not accept imperfections, I would be without friends. I guess -triple-check what you type, especially if you haven't slept in a long time.

[Voular]

I swear to god I tried making five different funny memes involving some pun on Nyr's name and the fact he has the answer you seek.

I'll just say, listen to Nyr. It's just a game, man.

[i love toilets]

One of those people, I got the idea that indeed they couldn't capitialize letters for some reason or another and was trying to hide it

[Yummri]

[quoteIt's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, because I always want to ask OOCly if they can slow down in typing so they can type "better" i.e. have more capitalization and make their sentences sound better. Is this a bad thing to wish? Is there a "safe" way to go about this? It kind of kills my enjoyment when people rp, but they don't take time to capitalize things, or are always spelling things wrong. I totally understand if english isn't their first language, but -still-.][/quote]

In some cases it is rather unfair to judge. For example. Most blind people will spell phonetically, I know I do it all the time. Because we can't see how a word is pelt we only have the sound of it. Its the same with grammar. Its fairly useless to most blind people so beyond a comma or a period you might not see much of it. And some typos can be attributed to these facts and the rush to get what we have to say in before it becomes irrelevant due to how naturally behind the conversation we are.

Some people are better at this than others. But at least in my case I don't mind a correction, if I spell a word phonetically, that is fine for me. And I know I have the habit of typing way to fast for my fingers to keep up with sometimes. Its something I'm trying to improve and once I find a good pace that allows me to interact without being horribly slow. I'm sure it will get better.

[Scarecrow]

I like it when people use capital letters, and use a full stop at the end of their sentence. When they don't use a full stop it makes their character sound breathless. I vote for (like in other MUDS) a code system that automatically puts a full stop at the end of every say. My two cents.

[Fujikoma]

Lead by example.

Hope for the best.

If they can do something about it they will eventually be inspired to do so. If they can't, then it's kind of pointless to gripe. It's called "suspension of disbelief" and you do it every time you watch some crappy movie with a crappy plot and special effects that suck. Maybe you could insert your capitalization, grammar and full stops with your mind, man, duuuuude... Trippy.

You have the power.