Did I ever tell you how I got these scars?

[Jherlen]

Quick idea I just had, feel free to help me develop it and/or shoot it down:

Currently we have the option to add scars to our characters ourselves, but what if there was a chance that scars were automatically applied to your character after taking hard hits in combat?

Suppose for instance when taking a hit that reduced you more than 25% of your health, you had a chance to have a scar applied to that location. The type of scar would depend on the type of hit you took, and how hard it was (slashing weapons would leave different types of scars than bites or spears). The chance to get a scar in a location would increase if the character wasn't wearing any armor in that location.

Bonus second idea: Examining a corpse shows you scars on the body! This would be a helpful way to help players determine what might have been the cause of death for someone without staff assistance!

[slvrmoontiger]

This wouldn't make for effective RP. In RL one does not get scars as soon as they have damage done to their bodies. Scars take time to develop through healing. RP should involve time off for that healing when you are heavily damaged. Scars you should add weeks later. I think I usually wait two RL days to apply scars when any of my PCs are seriously injured.

[Jherlen]

This wouldn't make for effective RP. In RL one does not get scars as soon as they have damage done to their bodies. Scars take time to develop through healing. RP should involve time off for that healing when you are heavily damaged. Scars you should add weeks later. I think I usually wait two RL days to apply scars when any of my PCs are seriously injured.

Yeah, I considered the realism factor there, but it doesn't seem like we have a good "wound" code where you can take a wound to a location on your body that heals into a scar later. (It'd be awesome if we did!) I thought perhaps we could leave the RP of taking the wound and it healing to players. Having the code auto-add scars would mean old, battleworn PCs would start to look old and battleworn naturally without the player having to take an active role in that, and I thought that might be worth the tradeoff of having the scar appear too quickly in the short term.

[LauraMars]

This might be cool.

However, we already have a way to add scars that is pretty easy, and is much more easily controlled by players based on their preferences.  What about the people who visit a vivaduan after being hurt in battle, before a scar would have a chance to logically form?  Would they get a scar anyway?  Would they have to request having it removed?

Also...what with the damage code being what it is, you might get a wounding hit on the neck with a bludgeon weapon, and then get a massive, slash-marked scar added in that location.  Also, what about that brute Runner who you have to spar with every morning?  His blunted wooden daggers are going to leave your body a riddled mass of scarring before a month has passed!

[catchall]

I don't know if it's feasible to code scars that time-out (particularly ones that time-out and put back whatever was underneath it to begin with), but if it was, it would totally awesome just to have temporary "scars" with descs of fresh wounds that appeared after taking hit.  "A big purple bruise" "A little bleeding gash," "A bleeding stabwound" etc..  Just for the cosmetic and roleplay benefit.  To have them go through stages of a healing process would be really cool too, but presumably increase the amount of architecture to implement.

Having them, along with all tattoos/scars, show up on corpses would also be sweet.

There's one major issue with letting the code apply permanent scars, though--important tattoos on hit-locations.  It just won't do for a simple cut to one side of the neck to overwrite someone's Gol Krathu band.  In any case where the code is auto-applying scars, I think it has to be temporary or at least it can't be allowed overwrite anything else already there, because code isn't able to account for all the variables.

[Jherlen]

However, we already have a way to add scars that is pretty easy, and is much more easily controlled by players based on their preferences.  What about the people who visit a vivaduan after being hurt in battle, before a scar would have a chance to logically form?  Would they get a scar anyway?  Would they have to request having it removed?

That's true, vivaduans (or even a good plain old normal non-witch healer with bandage) kinda do throw a wrench into this. Unless we had a more developed wound system we'd maybe need to give players a means to manually overwrite or undo their scars. Hmph.

Also...what with the damage code being what it is, you might get a wounding hit on the neck with a bludgeon weapon, and then get a massive, slash-marked scar added in that location.  Also, what about that brute Runner who you have to spar with every morning?  His blunted wooden daggers are going to leave your body a riddled mass of scarring before a month has passed!

I'm hopeful that damage type could be tied to scars in a way that scars would be appropriate to what kind of damage you took. Arrows would leave pock-marked scars, bites would leave distinctive scars, and only axes and swords would leave slash-marked ones. If that isn't doable I wouldn't be a fan of this system myself.

As for sparring, if the threshold for when you scar was set high enough, hopefully we could avoid too many new runners getting too scarred up.

I don't know if it's feasible to code scars that time-out (particularly ones that time-out and put back whatever was underneath it to begin with), but if it was, it would totally awesome just to have temporary "scars" with descs of fresh wounds that appeared after taking hit.  "A big purple bruise" "A little bleeding gash," "A bleeding stabwound" etc..  Just for the cosmetic and roleplay benefit.  To have them go through stages of a healing process would be really cool too, but presumably increase the amount of architecture to implement.

I totally agree!

There's one major issue with letting the code apply permanent scars, though--important tattoos on hit-locations.  It just won't do for a simple cut to one side of the neck to overwrite someone's Gol Krathu band.  In any case where the code is auto-applying scars, I think it has to be temporary or at least it can't be allowed overwrite anything else already there, because code isn't able to account for all the variables.

Agree here too - I think the simplest fix would be to not overwrite tattoos at all. If we wanted to get fancy, the "look person's neck" command could show their tattoo as well as a list of scars that had been inflicted to that location. Looking at the person would still just show the tattoo.

[Molten Heart]

This would be cool, as long as they didn't overwrite tattoos/other scars.  This would be the only drawback I could see.

[Barsook]

I dig this but having some realism to it would make it better with bruises and that stuff that can heal over time.

[Kronibas]

the heavily-scarred, scar-faced man with scars says, in scarred sirihish,

"Yeah, I've been a runner for about two months now..."


But didn't whip objects once leave scars on people's backs with the "use whip <dude>" command, or is that just a figment of my imagination?

[Delirium]

They do if you get whipped enough times.

[Qzzrbl]

but guise how would i keep my warriors face pretty and flawless

[Delirium]

This idea goes too far into the realm of code for me. You think being 'bloodied' from a blunt training weapon is bad enough, try getting scarred on the head by that gurth.

[Morrolan]

And that's why I have this handy-dandy chart (based on a roughly 100 hp character):

Dam      Result
1-5      no scar
6-8      maybe light scar
9-15      pale, faint-looking scar
16-22   puffy line of scarred tissue
23-29   long, jagged-looking scar
30-54   pitted, deep-looking scar
55+      Serious injury/loss

And this is a game, so scars with story value stay, and new lame scars don't cover them.

[FreeRangeVestric]

And that's why I have this handy-dandy chart (based on a roughly 100 hp character):

Dam      Result
1-5      no scar
6-8      maybe light scar
9-15      pale, faint-looking scar
16-22   puffy line of scarred tissue
23-29   long, jagged-looking scar
30-54   pitted, deep-looking scar
55+      Serious injury/loss

I'd be head to toe scars in a RL week, on an even slightly combat-oriented character.

[HavokBlue]

I feel like the current scar system and tdesc system make it easy enough to handle scarring and injuries from sparring or combat. I don't think the amount of effort it would take staff to create this feature are worth the returns.

[Vwest]

Having played a game with 'wound enforcement', the novelty wears off VERY quickly.

I had a knight-type character who was responsible for training her subordinates, so there was a lot of sparring involved. In spite of wearing a full suit of custom designed, quarter-inch thick steel platemail, she always looked like she just came back from leading the opening charge on hamburger hill. A training lance or pike had the same result, a hit was a hit and a wound would be applied, even if it only did 1 damage.

If Armageddon had a much slower paced combat system and wounds carried more realistic effects and severity, I could see it being an interesting bit of flavor IF it was a toggled option for players. Unfortunately, if you've ever sparred in the Byn, you're going to receive 'wound', 'vicious' and even the occasional 'unspeakable' wounds that aren't actually going to be doing that kind of damage to your character, but the code treats it as normal combat.

It drives me crazy when people emote their characters bleeding from huge slices in their face after my character hits them in the head with a cloth-wrapped length of blunted wood. The idea of covering someone (or being covered) in coded scars from non-issue wounds would not only send me screaming into the hills, but would reinforce people exaggerating training wounds because the code couldn't (without heavy code-changes) tell the difference between a feather duster and a steel broadsword.

When I add a coded scar to my character, it's to represent a significant event in their life. My last warrior, for example, never once received a serious wound in real combat and as such she remained scar-free and beautiful despite being involved in heavy combat constantly. The absence of scars became significant to her story. My character prior to that, who was much less combat savvy and got her ass handed to her by raptors all the fucking time, had several coded scars, each representing a particularly severe wound she'd suffered in a near-fatal or otherwise story-worthy encounter.

I make a point of never starting a character with coded scars, just so I can add them like journal entries when they're earned.

I'd be pretty irate to have scars forced on my characters by RNG instead of when I feel they're warranted.

[26 dollars]

There is already at least one way I know of to get a scar from combat applied by the code.  I think it would be interesting, but only on the rarest types of hits.  Grievous, horrendous, these sorts of wounds that take half of your life could apply a kind of scar based on the weapon type (though, whether it's a sparring weapon or not is irrelevant--  it just took half your life away) or creature attack type.

Handing out coded scars for regular old wounds seems a bit over the top, however.  A hard hit from a club bruises and swells.

A life-threatening hit from a club, on the other hand, breaks bone and splits skin.

[Lizzie]

There is already at least one way I know of to get a scar from combat applied by the code.  I think it would be interesting, but only on the rarest types of hits.  Grievous, horrendous, these sorts of wounds that take half of your life could apply a kind of scar based on the weapon type (though, whether it's a sparring weapon or not is irrelevant--  it just took half your life away) or creature attack type.

Handing out coded scars for regular old wounds seems a bit over the top, however.  A hard hit from a club bruises and swells.

A life-threatening hit from a club, on the other hand, breaks bone and splits skin.

It really depends on the club. If you're talking about a sparring club, well, they're usually wood aren't they? And they're tossed haphazardly into big boxes, or piled under other weapons in racks, when they're not being used, right? So doesn't it seem pretty logical that they are subject to splintering? And if there's a splinter missing from a club, then there's a chance that if you get hit by that part of the club, you are going to get pretty scratched up, and bleed. If the splinter isn't completely gone yet but it now only sticking out, there's a big chance the splinter will fall out - into your skin. These things aren't perfectly polished, shellacked masterpieces of artwork afterall. They're weapons, many of which will actually shatter and obliterate if you use them too hard (ask any clanned mul about how his boss whines about the cost of sparring clubs).

Then there are spiked clubs - you should EXPECT the blood to flow before the impact against your skull causes you to fall and hit your face on the floor.

And maces - which have knobby things sticking out of them.

In fact, if you take your finger - manicured, with your nail cropped nice and short and flush with the fingertip so it's not an "edge" - and you press down hard enough on someone's stomach, their skin will eventually yield to either your finger, or their own skeletal system, and you will end up with a finger in their internal organs. That's a blunt instrument right there.

A branch - even unsharpened - is sharp at at least one end.

So just because it's a "bludgeoning weapon" doesn't mean it isn't capable of drawing blood even when it isn't splitting your face open.

[26 dollars]

What you're splitting is hairs.  I believe we're making the same point--  that any weapon type can break the skin, and therefore, create a scar.  I'm still a tad wary of this idea because I like for people to have control over their characters, and we do have a nice range of scars.  I'm also tired of people taking wounds that knocks down 1/3 to 1/2 of their life, and telling you with a laugh, "It's ok, I've had worse."  Have you?  Show me that scar, because that hit looked painful!

[RogueGunslinger]

What you're splitting is hairs.  I believe we're making the same point--  that any weapon type can break the skin, and therefore, create a scar.  I'm still a tad wary of this idea because I like for people to have control over their characters, and we do have a nice range of scars.  I'm also tired of people taking wounds that knocks down 1/3 to 1/2 of their life, and telling you with a laugh, "It's ok, I've had worse."  Have you?  Show me that scar, because that hit looked painful!

I will never treat sparring injuries like real combat injuries. Getting lightly beating on by sticks until you're half-health is not the same as getting your arm chopped off by a mul with a broadsword. You can't treat the code like some sort of equivalent realism in all scenarios. You should instead take everything within the context of the roleplay involved, and react accordingly.

[26 dollars]

I've knocked a guy out with a padded sword.  It was PVC pipe covered with 1" thick foam padding, and wrapped with duct tape.  I'm probably "above average" strength in real life, only on the merit that I "work for a living."  I am not imposing or dangerous in a physical sense.  I gave this poor guy a concussion with a padded sword.  With intent, I could've killed him with it.

There's you some equivalent realism.  Training weapons being padded for training doesn't mean they're made of cotton candy.

[Barsook]

I say that the system that we have works and it reinforces roleplay better than doing it with code, thought it only works (the code) during combat.

[Jherlen]

The way I envisioned this working would be that only seriously huge hits (ones that take off say more than 25% of your hp) would even have a chance to leave a scar, it wouldn't always be a sure thing until you started losing more than half your hp in a single hit. I really doubt those kinds of injuries happen in sparring all that often. But if they do, why not play it out?  I don't see why you'd treat taking a vicious wound with a sparring spear any different than a normal one, if both hits knocked you down 30 hp.

[Barzalene]

What you're splitting is hairs.  I believe we're making the same point--  that any weapon type can break the skin, and therefore, create a scar.  I'm still a tad wary of this idea because I like for people to have control over their characters, and we do have a nice range of scars.  I'm also tired of people taking wounds that knocks down 1/3 to 1/2 of their life, and telling you with a laugh, "It's ok, I've had worse."  Have you?  Show me that scar, because that hit looked painful!

I will never treat sparring injuries like real combat injuries. Getting lightly beating on by sticks until you're half-health is not the same as getting your arm chopped off by a mul with a broadsword. You can't treat the code like some sort of equivalent realism in all scenarios. You should instead take everything within the context of the roleplay involved, and react accordingly.

I agree with this.
Can you imagine the melodrama that would ensue otherwise? All of the Byn would limp and there would only be sparring on the first three days of each month.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've knocked a guy out with a padded sword.  It was PVC pipe covered with 1" thick foam padding, and wrapped with duct tape.  I'm probably "above average" strength in real life, only on the merit that I "work for a living."  I am not imposing or dangerous in a physical sense.  I gave this poor guy a concussion with a padded sword.  With intent, I could've killed him with it.

There's you some equivalent realism.  Training weapons being padded for training doesn't mean they're made of cotton candy.

I think you missed my point. Yes, in sparring you can be knocked out, get broken bones, be maimed with an extremely hard hit. It happens on occasion. But treating every person at 50% hp like they're half dead doesn't make any sense, if you got there by a whole bunch of nicks and light hits.

This is why you should defer to the roleplay involved when determining how dead/injured your character actually is.