Allanaki City Elves

[Malken]

I still don't understand why the 'rinthi elf clan was closed down. I'd like an official answer on that.

[HavokBlue]

I like to pretend the ominous staff silence on this topic is the subject of an intense revamp effort and staff are waiting to unleash new elf tribes on us any day now


I can dream

[RogueGunslinger]

They did just say they greenlit something. It was around the time we were starting this whine on elves, but also around the time someone was talking about more Allanak love, so who knows.

[mattrious]

I am uncertain if this has already been posted in this thread, but I think it should be said: Be The Change

There are a handful of active clans/tribes that were actually created by players and not staff members. Does it take time? Absolutely. Though, imagine how rewarding it is to create your own family (tribe) with detailed documentation and the like? Get permission to put in a family role call and create a family of city-elves.

Also, I would like to note that while the "Jaxa Pah" is a coded clan - it's not actually a tribe.  It's a grouping of families/tribes that are working together for one common goal (survival in the Labyrinth).

Make a new family and convince the Jaxa Pah your family could be beneficial to them and are worthy of the other families protection. I understand the staff are holding back on providing documentation on the various city-elf tribes/families, though there is no reason you could not get ahead in the process. If you make an elven PC and successfully get a family off the ground? I am sure the staff would certainly look to you when revamping documentation.

That is what makes Armageddon such a wonderful game. City-elves are amazing and there are so many awesome pieces of documentation how to play an elf. Put the tests to use. I really hope they're still here in player form but the retired staff member Shalooonsh was amazing when it came to elves in general. They knew how to appropriately 'turn up'.

[Patuk]

.. You haven't read a post in this thread at all, have you?

[mattrious]

.. You haven't read a post in this thread at all, have you?

I've read a few actually. Though, it would appear that a majority of them are whining about the lack of staff support and providing various documentation to said coded clans. I also read how people think that elves would be more enjoyable to play if some of the rules were changed, etc. Oh, let's let them ride. Oh, let's make it so they can easily walk through the desert.

City-elves have morphed into a different breed than their desert-elf cousins. There is a reason that they can not hop through the sands like a happy little cricket.

There is nothing broke here with this race and nothing needs to be addressed in that regard. I see a thread that has 14 pages filled with various different whines and complaints. I am simply stating that you're playing a game that you can make the change. So, make the change. Do I need to read something specific? Please, let me know.

[RogueGunslinger]

You can't add other players to your tribe, and you can't create a tribe with other players.

A tribe is not the same thing as a family. People are complaining about not being able to play tribal city elves. This is what the bulk of the current conversation is surrounding that you seem to have missed.

[mattrious]

You can't add other players to your tribe, and you can't create a tribe with other players.

A tribe is not the same thing as a family. People are complaining about not being able to play tribal city elves. This is what the bulk of the current conversation is surrounding that you seem to have missed.

You are incorrect.

This was pulled from the Jaxa Pah help file: http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Jaxa%20Pah

The Jaxa Pah is a tribe of city elves consisting of a few smaller tribal components. This tribe is based out of the eastside of the Labyrinth in Allanak, and has risen to a position of significant influence in recent years, tangling with westsiders, southsiders, and other elven groups.

Three playable families make up the Jaxa Pah: Valuren, Sandas, and Kanosh.

You can in-fact add individuals into the Valuren, Sandas, and Kanosh. There are in-game events that allow all of these tribes/families to bring others into their fold. How do I know? Because, I've had PCs in every one of these families - and they were all recruited in. Are you saying that the Sandas, Valuren, and Kanosh are not actually tribes? Because, I'm certain there are some elves sharpening their knives right now and eagerly awaiting your response.

Again, what have I missed? Just because there are no open hard coded clans at current - does not mean you can not play by the same rules that have been in place for years. People need to quit whining and use the game world to their benefit. The main thing I've taken away from this thread? Whine.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm incorrect?

So to clarify, a group of elves, family app or otherwise, could congregate in-game and call themselves a the Fuckwood Crew and do all their hunting and killing and drinking and fucking and whatever else, but they can't call themselves the Fuckwood Tribe?

Correct; this is an OOC restriction on PC roles.  Inevitably, someone in the Fuckwood "Tribe" will try to recruit someone else into their tribe.  Perhaps they will get a mate, and say "well my mate is actually part of the tribe now, that's how the tribe works," and then we're stuck dealing with at least a couple of players that have made things incredibly awkward to handle IC.  And yes, we do have to deal with it, because endlessly perpetuating tribes is the same problem as endlessly perpetuating families.

If you want to play a member of a tribe that does recruit under controlled conditions that are laid out carefully and approved by staff, you have limited options.  At this time, I think it's fair to say that we do not feel that the ability to recruit people into a tribal role is integral to a tribal role, so that's why it is rare in-game in the cases where it is allowed (and otherwise disallowed/not part of the documentation/reserved for the most rare of occurrences).

Maybe should stop calling everyone whiners and seek to further understand what the hell they're talking about. Also, Jaxa Pah are closed, and have been for quite some time.

[Patuk]

I stand by what I posted.

[mattrious]

I'm incorrect?

So to clarify, a group of elves, family app or otherwise, could congregate in-game and call themselves a the Fuckwood Crew and do all their hunting and killing and drinking and fucking and whatever else, but they can't call themselves the Fuckwood Tribe?

Correct; this is an OOC restriction on PC roles.  Inevitably, someone in the Fuckwood "Tribe" will try to recruit someone else into their tribe.  Perhaps they will get a mate, and say "well my mate is actually part of the tribe now, that's how the tribe works," and then we're stuck dealing with at least a couple of players that have made things incredibly awkward to handle IC.  And yes, we do have to deal with it, because endlessly perpetuating tribes is the same problem as endlessly perpetuating families.

If you want to play a member of a tribe that does recruit under controlled conditions that are laid out carefully and approved by staff, you have limited options.  At this time, I think it's fair to say that we do not feel that the ability to recruit people into a tribal role is integral to a tribal role, so that's why it is rare in-game in the cases where it is allowed (and otherwise disallowed/not part of the documentation/reserved for the most rare of occurrences).

Maybe should stop calling everyone whiners and seek to further understand what the hell they're talking about. Also, Jaxa Pah are closed, and have been for quite some time.

Damn. Sorry, I missed a post that is nearly a half-a-year old. Though, I'll see your six month old post and raise you one that is....you know what? No. How about this? Make a "group" "family" "gang" "crew" "tribe" "posse" and do whatever the hell you want? Seriously, you're arguing over if you can call your grouping of elves a tribe or family. There are so many ways you can skin this cat that it is truly ridiculous.

So please tell me. What is your beef or argument? You want some hard coded city-elf clans to be opened up? Why? What would these clans do for you that you can not currently achieve? You would have a nice safe place to rest while twinking up your skills? The Red Fang did not have a coded encampment for IRL years and they did just fine without it. Please tell me what it is that you're wanting and why.

[Dakota]

I am uncertain if this has already been posted in this thread, but I think it should be said: Be The Change

I see that in a thread like this and I get more irked than anything. I've tried a lot to be the change with a few different PC's for a few different things (and with my most successful PC, I hope I was).  Frankly I think the climate (at least from 2011-2013) in Arm (in Staff-land) wasn't really open to add in new coded clans or lend staff support for such 'from the ground up' things.

Has that climate changed? I think so and for some odd reason, I'm more optimistic about Arm now that I was in 2011.

But even though I didn't play arm pre-2011... It's a far different place than it was when LoD and HD were running about making tribes and starting revolts and 'being the change'.

But BACK TO C-ELVES... Yes they should have some sort of coded options available to them for tribes or clans in both City States. NO... should they get some sort of boost or massive change in their make up and social placement within the Arm eco-system. They are fucking elves. In the city they steal your coin and babys out of their mothers arms. In the desert they run around like savages, spit fire and scalp the dead.

[mattrious]

I am uncertain if this has already been posted in this thread, but I think it should be said: Be The Change

I see that in a thread like this and I get more irked than anything. I've tried a lot to be the change with a few different PC's for a few different things (and with my most successful PC, I hope I was).  Frankly I think the climate (at least from 2011-2013) in Arm (in Staff-land) wasn't really open to add in new coded clans or lend staff support for such 'from the ground up' things.

Has that climate changed? I think so and for some odd reason, I'm more optimistic about Arm now that I was in 2011.

But even though I didn't play arm pre-2011... It's a far different place than it was when LoD and HD were running about making tribes and starting revolts and 'being the change'.

But BACK TO C-ELVES... Yes they should have some sort of coded options available to them for tribes or clans in both City States. NO... should they get some sort of boost or massive change in their make up and social placement within the Arm eco-system. They are fucking elves. In the city they steal your coin and babys out of their mothers arms. In the desert they run around like savages, spit fire and scalp the dead.

Thank you. I mean it's quite possible to be the change, and Armageddon as a game has changed and morphed over the years. Is it possible to bring back the good while pushing out the bad? I am sure it is. This game will still be here when most of the staff have retried and moved on - there is turn over.

I will absolutely agree that coded clans are a nice feature and do make playing a bit easier. Though, I still feel that it should not be the end-all to playing a city-elf. It's not hard to establish this same thing all in-game. If you make a city-elf PC and manage to survive a few IG years? You will certainly have the tools in place to bring others into your fold.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm incorrect?

So to clarify, a group of elves, family app or otherwise, could congregate in-game and call themselves a the Fuckwood Crew and do all their hunting and killing and drinking and fucking and whatever else, but they can't call themselves the Fuckwood Tribe?

Correct; this is an OOC restriction on PC roles.  Inevitably, someone in the Fuckwood "Tribe" will try to recruit someone else into their tribe.  Perhaps they will get a mate, and say "well my mate is actually part of the tribe now, that's how the tribe works," and then we're stuck dealing with at least a couple of players that have made things incredibly awkward to handle IC.  And yes, we do have to deal with it, because endlessly perpetuating tribes is the same problem as endlessly perpetuating families.

If you want to play a member of a tribe that does recruit under controlled conditions that are laid out carefully and approved by staff, you have limited options.  At this time, I think it's fair to say that we do not feel that the ability to recruit people into a tribal role is integral to a tribal role, so that's why it is rare in-game in the cases where it is allowed (and otherwise disallowed/not part of the documentation/reserved for the most rare of occurrences).

Maybe should stop calling everyone whiners and seek to further understand what the hell they're talking about. Also, Jaxa Pah are closed, and have been for quite some time.

Damn. Sorry, I missed a post that is nearly a half-a-year old. Though, I'll see your six month old post and raise you one that is....you know what? No. How about this? Make a "group" "family" "gang" "crew" "tribe" "posse" and do whatever the hell you want? Seriously, you're arguing over if you can call your grouping of elves a tribe or family. There are so many ways you can skin this cat that it is truly ridiculous.

So please tell me. What is your beef or argument? You want some hard coded city-elf clans to be opened up? Why? What would these clans do for you that you can not currently achieve? You would have a nice safe place to rest while twinking up your skills? The Red Fang did not have a coded encampment for IRL years and they did just fine without it. Please tell me what it is that you're wanting and why.

I want to experience a tribe with my city-elf. I want to go in knowing I've got people behind my back no matter what. I want to play out the idea that the tribe always comes first. This isn't something you can just make happen with random pc elves from varying background over multiple trust tests.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's a difference between an elven tribe and gang, or a family. That's the whole reason why staff have said you can't make a tribe.

To an elf, tribe is key. The tribe is almost always placed before the individual for an elf. While city elves may operate more or less independently, they too form small tribes within the walls of the city. Elves, all elves, are deathly loyal to their tribe. You can almost attribute a sort of 'hive mind' to elves, in that most of them consider the welfare of their tribe above their own personal welfare. An elf would tell you that they would give up their own life without hesitation to protect or serve their tribe. Not all of them have that much willpower, but all of them wish they did, and certainly all of them will claim they do.

This is the distinction that makes elves elves in my eyes. And the only way you get to play it out is by making it entirely virtual, you can't involve other pc's.

[HavokBlue]

anybody that wants a coded clan to support their character's relevant documentation and make for viable gameplay in an already volatile area of the game is a twink

be the change

[BadSkeelz]

Riding a high horse is never a good idea, but riding one in a City Elf thread is just doubly silly.

[Jingo]

*thread dissolves into a puddle of incomprehensible, distilled e-peen*

[IntuitiveApathy]

Once a party passes the elven loyalty tests, the elf then passes the tribal mentality to that party. This includes complete and utter loyalty to that party, as well as the expectation of the same in return.  Do note that the elf also expects tests to be performed by the other party onto them as well.  

The final test of the process is generally a situation where the elf puts them-self into a real life threatening situation, and then asks the other party to put them-self into a real life threatening situation to get them out of it. It doesn't matter what race the other is, such a form of loyalty and selfless behavior is enough to convince the elf to put their full trust in that party.

Is this an actual tribe? In my opinion, it is to the elf.  There might not be a fancy name to it, or a long history of blood-lines, but a tribe and this companionship, as far as their nature, are indistinguishable.

Apologies that I'm bringing up a bit of an older point here but I wanted to comment on this.

While I don't disagree that elves could potentially get to this end-point in trusting another party, and it certainly a necessary condition in the formation of a new tribe, I do want to make the point that there should be some distinguishing between full blown tribal trust as opposed to tested trust.  I wouldn't say that there might be such a difference between tribal trust and tested trust for another elf, and I don't disagree that other races can be the subject of elven trust tests, but my belief is that elves would be keenly aware that non-elves just don't have that sort of undying loyalty to the tribe that an elf would.  Racism is prevalent in Zalanthas, and elves are certainly subject to it, but would also certainly be propagators of it as well - perhaps to elves, humans are wishy-washy, dwarves are insane, half-giants are just mindless imitating children.  How could any full-blooded elf really fully trust someone like that, even if they've proven themselves temporarily in the short term?  There'd always be that niggling thought in the back of their head - is this mul going to flip out on me today?

I think it's important to keep in mind that incompatible genetics aside, there would presumably never be an elven tribe with any permanence that contained different races for that very reason.  This alone should give reason to distinguish tribe vs. tested trust.

[Dresan]

I don't think it's like a 'Don't buy gas for a day' conspiracy. I think city-elves have their problems, but if the whole player base rolled dwarves, half-giants, or half-elves, you'd see similar problems in different arenas. Noble Houses would all be shut down, and without Nobles as an economy fluid for the player base, you'd see everyone playing an Indy or in the GMH's. It'd be a pretty boring PvE game. Hunting, skinning, selling products to people, more hunting, skinning...Not to say that Nobles are the be all end all of fun for the game, but you'd also have a lack of Templars, and minions.

If anything, I think the population count of Elves could be dropped in the documentation, from 60% or whatever to 20%. That might reflect the lack of popularity in playing elves, and massage the need to address these perceived issues.

Because honestly, fuck elves.

Noble houses and templars would still be run by the sponsored players. Yes some places would suffer, but the clans dwarves and half-elves can join wouldn't suffer at all. It would still be business as usual. The byn would still function normally, and both noble houses and templars could make use of them. Half-giants are three karma due to their insane strength, difficulty of playing and rarity so not everyone can play them anyways. My point is that a byn full of nothing but elves cannot fuction as well as a byn full of dwarves. They would not be able to even take some routine contracts. Kurac Fist full of elves would probably find themselves in similar situation though possibly not as severe.

Changing their documentation, begins risking making them popular. Which in turn potentially leads to suffering across the board due to their inability to paricipate in all their clan activities. The fact that they are so gimped both codedly and through their documentation(required to be thieves of some sort) leads them to being so unpopular. The fact they are so unpopular in turn allows the game to fuction normally and as well as it currently does. This is why I suspect that if we were to petition people to play nothing but city elves for a while it would force some change.  Or more then likely a mysterious disease would spread among them, killing large numbers of them and making them much rarer in cities.Their karma level would be changed to two or three due to their new found rarity and difficulty of play. Though making them rarer would be rather unfortunate when esspecially when the race could be changed to be something more along the lines of dwaves and half-elves.  

[Mendel]

Wanted to play a C-elf for my next char so I read the majority of this thread, and another one with staff response about tribes.  Immediately stopped wanting to play a c-elf.

I really don't understand what the 'ideal' roleplay scenario for a c-elf is ATM.  Supposed to have a virtual tribe and roleplay the elven mentaility through solo stuff?  Supposed to make friends with other elves in an informal way, while retaining xenophobia and paranoia?  Supposed to be an indy, somehow integrated into city culture but you have to be a straight up thief cus reasons and docs.  Suposed to .  I don't get it.

In light of the vast swathe of opinion spread in this thread, I think the docs need cleaning.  Or the staff needs to make some statements about what exactly is a c-elf's intended role in the game, both IC and OOC.

emote shrugs

[Zoan]

Staff is going to release something neat for c-elves, a bunch of rolling apps will come and go, then nobody will care and nobody will play them because humans are prettier/more connected/stronger.

[RogueGunslinger]

I recently gave c-elves a shot(a "long lived" shot, at that) and it left a bitter taste in my mouth, and is basically the basis for my whole argument here.

Basically I was the only elf around who had been alive for an IC year or longer and had mildy frequent playtimes. All other examples only showed up once or twice a month and could basically be considered non-existent(though I sure as fuck appreciated the few times they would log on, even if they weren't and could never be in my tribe it's nice to see another elf now and again)

I really doubt I'll play another city-elf if there isn't some sort of tribal support. Either in the way of a full fledged coded clan, or in simple background tribes that are staff-endorsed so other players can immediately be in the tribe with you.

Staff is going to release something neat for c-elves,

Don't get our hopes up.

[Reiloth]

Bitter much?

[RogueGunslinger]

and it left a bitter taste in my mouth,

Definitely bitter. Have you played a c-elf recently? You'd probably be bitter too.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Instead of thieving elves, elves should be considered the ultimate con-artists, which, uh, includes thieving, but certainly doesn't restrict them to thieving, and doesn't force an elf to play as a thief. The same principles could apply.

Never trust an elf.

If an elf says it costs three hundred, it probably costs two.

If an elf says a runner died on a contract, the truth is that the elf probably killed him, or, that the elf ran and let him die.

If an elf comes in with seven hides, he originally had nine, because he sold two before he arrived back to the storeroom.

If an elf is telling you information, ply him, because he's forgetting to tell you about that one thing, that one time.

Always send an elf to barter, he'll convince the seller that what he's selling is utter shit, and get it back to you for resale at maximum profit.

Always send an elf with your crew - if somebody has to die, it's one less sharp.

Always stay on an elf's good side - he'll figure out a way to fuck you over for life if you don't.

Send an elf to do a spy's work - nobody notices another elf.

Well, somebody has to run the gambling game - and sharps read faces like second nature.

Let an elf ask the prisoner questions. They always know when someone is lying.

The word con-artist opens a vast world to me, where as this whole thief thing forces me to try to understand how to actually do that and not pick pockets or raid houses. I think it allows for soft cons and hard cons, elves who are almost acceptable, and elves who are plain villains.

I also think it allows for elves to have a different image IG, while also allowing them to be semi-acceptable within certain clans. And that, of course, opens up play for them.