Allanaki City Elves

[BleakOne]

I'm more afraid of the fire-breathing spiders born from the magickal fusion that happened because of the movement of the volcano. And they ride on bahamet.

Chainsaw-wielding bahamet, no less.

[Molten Heart]

Bump

[Fujikoma]

Don't be too ballsy and brazen too often and you just might survive. Other than that, keep your long-ears open for rumors and your finger firmly on the pulse, and always have an escape plan for when things inevitably get ugly. Whenever another sharp does something, everyone knows you know about it, even if you don't, prepare to BS your way out of a bunch of garbage.

[HavokBlue]

allanaki city elves - join the byn or have fun being a more isolated than a breed with no clans and no tribe despite tribes being a central facet of your documentation

[BadSkeelz]

You're supposed to act out with your tribe virtually. Just like dwarves act out their focus virtually, and people poop virtually.

[Harmless]

You're supposed to act out with your tribe virtually. Just like dwarves act out their focus virtually, and people poop virtually.

Doesn't sound too appealing does it

[Armaddict]

allanaki city elves - join the byn or have fun being a more isolated than a breed with no clans and no tribe despite tribes being a central facet of your documentation

...you guys have gotten spoiled.  There used to be no coded city elf tribes at all.  None.  With the same tribal emphasis.

It made you learn how to treat other PC's as an elf.  It made the 'test' an actual part of elven roleplay.  It made finding comraderie the central part of elven survival, but only in the case they earn it because of how sweet it is to have an elven friend who's on your side.

I don't think it's worth griping about, over and over, when the alternative to open City Elf clans is cooler in the first place.  There is one...ONE city elf clan that has been coded that is actually cool, and it hasn't been open in a good long time.

[Patuk]

I would now like to note that the lack of coded tribes predates the whole 'can't rp out having a tribe people can join' thing.

[Malken]

...you guys have gotten spoiled.  There used to be no coded city elf tribes at all.  None.  With the same tribal emphasis.

When was that? For as long as I can remember there were always coded elf tribes in the 'rinth, and more than just one. I can remember as far as halflings hanging out in the Sanctuary and buying healing potions in Tuluk.

[Armaddict]

You're thinking of the one city elf clan, then, which was special application, malken.  As noted, the vast vast majority were not in a coded tribe. Some clans accepted elves in the labyrinth and city, but were far from tribal in nature. I'd be curious to hear which ones you're thinking of.

[Malken]

You're thinking of the one city elf clan, then, which was special application, malken.  As noted, the vast vast majority were not in a coded tribe. Some clans accepted elves in the labyrinth and city, but were far from tribal in nature. I'd be curious to hear which ones you're thinking of.

I'm trying to think far way back, but my first memory of Armageddon is me playing with some elf Kuraci or Kadius LEADER taking me around in his wagon, so I think that's a bit flawed and things were definitely changed afterward. It feels like the 'rinth has been exactly the same ever since it was created (by that I mean eastsiders being an elf coded clan or two or three), but I'm not a professional Allanaki player, so of course I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong if my memory is, as well.

[Armaddict]

Meh. I don't want to tangle this up. The point I wanted to make was that elves and the elven mentality was both doable and enjoyable without coded tribes. It is a little different, but that is part of the experience.  Maybe I'll type something up when I'm not poking on my phone (I hate phone typing).

[Reiloth]

Meh. I don't want to tangle this up. The point I wanted to make was that elves and the elven mentality was both doable and enjoyable without coded tribes. It is a little different, but that is part of the experience.  Maybe I'll type something up when I'm not poking on my phone (I hate phone typing).

I concur with Armaddict -- The one exception in the Labyrinth was the Haruch Kemad, which had a 'shadowy organization' street tribe of its own. Beyond this, the Dairiki, Valuren, and Kanosh were simply flavor. Some people knew their backgrounds and would incorporate it into their PC's backgrounds. No one really ever questioned if you were a Dairiki or Valuren, because why would you lie about it?

I also agree that the elven experience felt a little more Zalanthan to me in this respect before large coded tribes.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You're saying that having a coded tribe made elves feel less tribe-like? How?

I think I could see how it would make the game harder, and I suppose that's good to some people, but shouldn't city elves in particular be more accessible to players who haven't spent enough time playing the game to embody the principles of the elven persona? I've been playing for a really long time, and I'll be the first time to admit that I have no idea how to RP an elf correctly. The dwarven persona I have down pat, and I think I could swing the childish thought process of a giant, but the elven mentality eludes me. And not grasping that makes me not want to play an elf for fear of doing it poorly.

A coded clan helps you understand the mores of whatever that clan is for - for instance, Tor allows you to understand what a Scorpion thinks of others and how they carry themselves, the Byn shoves the gritty, dark, hardened nature of hired killers in your face all of the time. This is where I would think a fully fleshed out elven tribe would be of the most assistance. It would provide a base for city elves.

[spicemustflow]

Again, soft-coded tribes would elegantly solve all this shit.

[Armaddict]

I did not say coded tribes were bad.  Only that the consistent gripe about not having one were irritating when they are, in actuality, completely unnecessary for the elven role as it is.

A coded clan helps you understand the mores of whatever that clan is for - for instance, Tor allows you to understand what a Scorpion thinks of others and how they carry themselves, the Byn shoves the gritty, dark, hardened nature of hired killers in your face all of the time. This is where I would think a fully fleshed out elven tribe would be of the most assistance. It would provide a base for city elves.

The difference here is that clans are, for the most part, decidedly non-tribal.  The Tor Scorpions recruit.  They bring people in, start granting goals, and start assigning ranks.  Yes, they teach about the clan.  No, they do not teach what it is to be a warrior, or soldier, they teach how Scorpions are different from others.

For coded tribes to be effective in providing the same education you're speaking of, there will need to be many of them, in which case they will need regulation.  'One coded city elf tribe' doesn't provide education on elven roleplay so much as it provides an easy outlet for social interaction, which is, really, the challenge of the elven role altogether.  They're xenophobes.  They distrust -everyone-.  The tribe is the only way around this distrust, and so whenever I see the coded in clan with easy access, I see a bunch of very trusting elves thrown in together.

Again, I'm not saying this necessarily hurts the elven population, but I'm not saying it helps either.  There's a lot to be gained by thinking everyone is out to get you as an elf, because it teaches you to be out to get everyone else...which is kind of the point.  So.  I am not averse to elven clans, so long as it's more than one.  I'm not averse to coded tribes, so long as it's more than one.  Elves are one of those rare exceptions where consolidation is not necessarily a good thing, and the work involved in maintaining the flavor is quite a bit to ask when it's of minimal benefit aside from a. A coded clan that provides nothing you can't do without the coded clan and b. A way for people to get around the elven mentality, which is distrust, testing, and long term investments in relationships.

Kind of my take on it, which can be argued away (it's not deadset, just kind of my viewpoint as a lover of elven roleplay).

[HavokBlue]

Roleplaying trust tests is not tribal roleplay and when you get down to it, the lack of a city elven tribe in Allanak means any Allanaki city elves are more isolated than breeds, can't trust a single PC character until they've performed a long string of rigorous tests, and are stuck on hardmode++++ in regards to a wide variety of gameplay aspects unless they join the Byn.

Tribes are not a "way to get around the elven mentality" because tribes are a central aspect of the elven mentality.

[Armaddict]

You're not reading it correctly.

Tribes are the elven mentality.  Clans are not.

The two are being made to be the same thing.  They are not.  That is what all of my posts have been regarding.

Edited to add, or rather to reiterate:
My original response came to the complaint that there are no tribes for city elves.  I said, 'hey, you don't need a coded clan to roleplay a tribal city elf'.  That is the issue I'm speaking of, is that mentality which is not very conducive to the elven mentality as a whole, which is outlined in various places throughout documentation, complete with help guides, none of which assume that you should automatically be in a coded clan because you are an elf.  That is an assumption that I am trying to combat with these posts.  Clan does not equal tribe, and tribe does not equal clan, and trying to circumvent the tribe with the clan will be damaging and unsuccessful to the end goal of tribal roleplay.

[HavokBlue]

Staff have explicitly stated that you can't start a group in game and call it a tribe, so without coded tribes, your elf cannot be in a non-virtual tribe.

[Armaddict]

Roleplaying trust tests is not tribal roleplay and when you get down to it

Also.  This is an intrinsic part of elven roleplay, hence why it is included in the documented guides on 'how to play an elf'.

Likewise, you're trying very hard to split hairs that can't be split.  You can play the tribal mentality of an elf without an entire coded clan for you to sink into, and it has been done for many many years already, with precedence of fantastic, wonderful, and rich elven roleplay that has been observed, created, and enjoyed since at least 1999, when I first started playing elves (without code support).  So.  That is that.

[Armaddict]

Staff have explicitly stated that you can't start a group in game and call it a tribe, so without coded tribes, your elf cannot be in a non-virtual tribe.

Correctamundo, you can't start recruiting family members IC.  That is accurate.

[HavokBlue]

So are we in agreement that there are no options for tribes and tribal roleplay for Allanaki elves despite it being a significant part of their documentation?

[Armaddict]

...


...


Nevermind.  No longer worth it.

[HavokBlue]

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and I can't because you seem to be ignoring a a significant portion of elven documentation and focusing on xenophobia and trust

[Fujikoma]

While it does pose a tremendous handicap, all the xenophobia and lack of coded tribes, this is in place for balance considerations, to keep Nakki city elves from conquering the known.