Allanaki City Elves

[spicemustflow]

btw, I respect and admire the aforementioned long-lived elves. Kudos for persevering.

[FantasyWriter]

A crew of c-elves (munane, gick or some combination there of) would do well to start in Red Storm. It would solve a lot of the problems with PCs singling out elves in Nak and tracking them down with a vengence. Think indoor raiders.  Live in Storm, once in a while, when the weather clears, they travel to Nak, spent a few in-game days fucking over all the roundears there, then foot it back to Storm (like gypsies but with pointed ears). Seriously. If you guys ever see me post a call for an elven family....

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

All I can say is there might or might not just be a few someones trying to be the change. Followed with the obligatory "Find out IC".

Look man, there's no "be the change" when staff have explicitly said that forming new tribes isn't allowed. You can form a close circle of trusted friends but it'll never grow into a tribe.

Pretty sure the no new tribe/clan policy went away with the death of 2.0.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't know if staff would go for that but I guess there's nothing to stop someone from creating a player-created tribe in the vein of the Akai where unclanned elves can join up.

There is, actually. We currently don't allow tribe-calls via players. We had abuse of this in the past, which lead to family roles requiring previous approval. The terminology difference between tribe and family may seem blurry -- especially where elves are concerned. It's something we have discussed in the past, but this is current policy as it stands.

I suppose technically your elf could start a tribe, but there doesn't seem to be enough of a PC presence in the city elf population to warrant this ever really coming about. It looks like a catch 22, at times -- players imagine a world where city elves are a more playable race, but the niche that elves fit via documentation doesn't allow for most of that.

I suppose a question I have is -- Do players enjoy playing city elves enough to warrant these kinds of changes? I played several city-elves in the past, both in the Labyrinth and Allanak, and didn't have much trouble playing to the documentation and having a great time. They are a difficult race to get into, but i'm unsure if broad changes to the race as a whole are going to solve the problem for some people. Should they be a more accessible race? Should they be karma restricted?

[Asche]

After reading the documentation, I personally just arrive at the conclusion that the in-game structure does not accomodate city elves in the PC capacity. Playing one would feel like a chore. Also, adopting humans into your tribe should be an incredibly rare occurrence few elves would even consider. It shouldn't be the backbone of your RP with them.

[valeria]

I don't know if staff would go for that but I guess there's nothing to stop someone from creating a player-created tribe in the vein of the Akai where unclanned elves can join up.

There is, actually. We currently don't allow tribe-calls via players. We had abuse of this in the past, which lead to family roles requiring previous approval. The terminology difference between tribe and family may seem blurry -- especially where elves are concerned. It's something we have discussed in the past, but this is current policy as it stands.

I suppose technically your elf could start a tribe, but there doesn't seem to be enough of a PC presence in the city elf population to warrant this ever really coming about. It looks like a catch 22, at times -- players imagine a world where city elves are a more playable race, but the niche that elves fit via documentation doesn't allow for most of that.

I suppose a question I have is -- Do players enjoy playing city elves enough to warrant these kinds of changes? I played several city-elves in the past, both in the Labyrinth and Allanak, and didn't have much trouble playing to the documentation and having a great time. They are a difficult race to get into, but i'm unsure if broad changes to the race as a whole are going to solve the problem for some people. Should they be a more accessible race? Should they be karma restricted?

I don't take from this that a PC elf tribe could never be a player construct.  The way I read this, you can't just start a "tribe" and invite all your OOC friends to come play as "family" to your elf.  You can't recruit for your tribe on the boards or whatever.  You'd either need a preapproved family role, or to completely build a tribe ICly.  And in either case, don't expect staff support.

[BadSkeelz]

You cannot recruit in to your tribe, period.

So to clarify, a group of elves, family app or otherwise, could congregate in-game and call themselves a the Fuckwood Crew and do all their hunting and killing and drinking and fucking and whatever else, but they can't call themselves the Fuckwood Tribe?

Correct; this is an OOC restriction on PC roles.  Inevitably, someone in the Fuckwood "Tribe" will try to recruit someone else into their tribe.  Perhaps they will get a mate, and say "well my mate is actually part of the tribe now, that's how the tribe works," and then we're stuck dealing with at least a couple of players that have made things incredibly awkward to handle IC.  And yes, we do have to deal with it, because endlessly perpetuating tribes is the same problem as endlessly perpetuating families.

If you want to play a member of a tribe that does recruit under controlled conditions that are laid out carefully and approved by staff, you have limited options.  At this time, I think it's fair to say that we do not feel that the ability to recruit people into a tribal role is integral to a tribal role, so that's why it is rare in-game in the cases where it is allowed (and otherwise disallowed/not part of the documentation/reserved for the most rare of occurrences).

[Armaddict]

See, that's where I view things differently.

Essentially, elves doing that long term relationship thing that I've been talking about, with testing and what not, ends up in a 'tribe', it's just not a tribal structure.  They still treat these people as other elves treat their tribe, though.  This often happens with long lived elves in clans, which is where elves become crazy good employees (if they don't fuck you over early and they fall in with everyone, they're deathly loyal).

So while you can't recruit into an -actual- tribe, you -do- end up in a tribal play scenario.  That is the area where our thought paths are diverging.

[HavokBlue]

nope

it's a crew scenario

no tribe scenario

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm a little confused. If someone passes all your trust tests are they considered part of your tribe? I figured you just trust them now, not nearly the level of trust elven tribe members share, but on par with that long-time friends humans can make.

Armaddict seems to be saying that if they pass all your trust tests they're essentially among your tribe. I haven't read the elf docs in a long enough time to really know if that's true.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I'm a little confused. If someone passes all your trust tests are they considered part of your tribe? I figured you just trust them now, not nearly the level of trust elven tribe members share, but on par with that long-time friends humans can make.

Armaddict seems to be saying that if they pass all your trust tests they're essentially among your tribe. I haven't read the elf docs in a long enough time to really know if that's true.

I see it this way too.

Ye Olde Levels of Elf Trust
a stranger >> the crap on your boots > a stranger that has passed a trust test > a stranger that has passed a lot of trust tests > ( you > your tribe member ) *these are the people in your tribe

[Armaddict]

...you guys have got to be trolling me.

Backing out, yet again.  More productive to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

[Spider]

Once a party passes the elven loyalty tests, the elf then passes the tribal mentality to that party. This includes complete and utter loyalty to that party, as well as the expectation of the same in return.  Do note that the elf also expects tests to be performed by the other party onto them as well.  

The final test of the process is generally a situation where the elf puts them-self into a real life threatening situation, and then asks the other party to put them-self into a real life threatening situation to get them out of it. It doesn't matter what race the other is, such a form of loyalty and selfless behavior is enough to convince the elf to put their full trust in that party.

Is this an actual tribe? In my opinion, it is to the elf.  There might not be a fancy name to it, or a long history of blood-lines, but a tribe and this companionship, as far as their nature, are indistinguishable.

[Reiloth]

Once a party passes the elven loyalty tests, the elf then passes the tribal mentality to that party. This includes complete and utter loyalty to that party, as well as the expectation of the same in return.  Do note that the elf also expects tests to be performed by the other party onto them as well.  

The final test of the process is generally a situation where the elf puts them-self into a real life threatening situation, and then asks the other party to put them-self into a real life threatening situation to get them out of it. It doesn't matter what race the other is, such a form of loyalty and selfless behavior is enough to convince the elf to put their full trust in that party.

Is this an actual tribe? In my opinion, it is to the elf.  There might not be a fancy name to it, or a long history of blood-lines, but a tribe and this companionship, as far as their nature, are indistinguishable.

Truf.

[spicemustflow]

Yes, we all know that city elves can form strong bonds with other elves and even other races and that forming such a group can be very satisfying roleplay for all involved. You want that, you roll up a tribeless elf. I love them.

As an elf, I love even more to be a part of an extended family with strongly established customs and traditions. It doesn't have to be a super powerful entity that controls all the crime in the city. It doesn't even need to have a coded building.

I really don't understand the argument that forming a tribe crew from scratch is the essential part of elven experience when it's only one part of it.

[RogueGunslinger]

That has never really made sense to me.

Elf puts himself in mortal danger just to figure out if he can trust someone with his life in mortal situations... That elf is a fucking moron, and deserves to die in a world as harsh as zalanthas.

Now the much more natural situation where someone saves your life at the possible expense of their own? That can happen to anyone, and has nothing to do with tribal nature or tests of trust, imo.

[MeTekillot]

You're not forming a tribe, you're forming a crew. No tribes allowed

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That has never really made sense to me.

Elf puts himself in mortal danger just to figure out if he can trust someone with his life in mortal situations... That elf is a fucking moron, and deserves to die in a world as harsh as zalanthas.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be mortal danger in the eyes of the testee, but the tester is sure of his ability to survive whatever this situation is.

[RogueGunslinger]

That has never really made sense to me.

Elf puts himself in mortal danger just to figure out if he can trust someone with his life in mortal situations... That elf is a fucking moron, and deserves to die in a world as harsh as zalanthas.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be mortal danger in the eyes of the testee, but the tester is sure of his ability to survive whatever this situation is.

That sounds like is has probably never happened...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've got several ideas regarding the sorts of tests in which that could happen, even via code.

Hmm, maybe I should play an elf.

[MeTekillot]

go ahead! just no tribes.

[Reiloth]

Don't be a dick.

[HavokBlue]

He's just pointing out the current policies and options for city elves who aren't in the Akai.

[Patuk]

That's all city elves. The Akai are closed.

[Reiloth]

Edited to not play GDB.