Idea on Movement

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

A few years ago, I suggested us being able to see: Whistling, you walk west, limping.

At that time, it was suggested that this would be put soon, as it was considered a good idea. Obviously, that didn't happen, but while I was thinking about it today, I thought about another idea.

Currently, when you move, it's instantly, followed by a delay when you enter the room. I propose two things.

First, delays.
Indoors: current
City:1 second
Outdoors: 5 seconds

Secondly, I suggest that the delay on movement happen both when you type in the direction, and when you arrive. That's a total of about ten seconds a room outdoors.

Now, the real meat of what I'd been thinking of. Here's what I would like to see from my end:

The Main Road [EW]

>w

You walk west.
The Main Road [EW]

>w (scowling)

Scowling, you walk west.
The Main Road [ES]

>s [staring up at the tall buildings]
You turn south.

You walk south, staring up at the tall buildings.
The Main Road [NS]

Your character would now have a state of movement. It would be east, west, north, south, up, down, enter, leave, or standing. To make this a little clearer, here is what someone following you would see.

The Main Road [EW]
The brawny woman stands here.

The brawny woman walks west.
You follow the brawny woman and walk west.
The Main Road [EW]
The brawny woman is here.

>l
The Main Road [EW]
The brawny woman is walking in from the east. (movement=west/while the one second arrival delay is active)

>l
The Main Road [EW]
The brawny woman is standing here. (movement=standing/after the one second arrival delay/before the one second departure delay)

>l
The Main Road [EW]
The brawny woman is walking west. (movement=west/the one second departure delay is active)

Scowling, the brawny woman walks west.
You follow the brawny woman and walk west.
The Main Road [ES]
The brawny woman is here.

The brawny woman turns south. (movement=south/causes echo if previous state from 10 seconds ago was not south. Note that above, continuing to walk west caused no echo, but did change ldesc)

The brawny woman walks south, staring up at the tall buildings.
You follow the brawny woman and walk south.
The Main Road [NS]

[slvrmoontiger]

Don't like it... Do you have a ten second delay when walking around outside? Its not RL like and it would get people killed out in the wilds. There is a delay... But a ten second delay would mean death for a lot of people.

[evilcabbage]

There's enough delay and there is a difference between city delay and wilderness delay. We don't need more delay.

[Fujikoma]

Also, keep in mind that the delay is slightly different depending on race, and maybe agility...

And yes, many would die because hahaha mek from out of nowhere and there's nothing you can do (unless the mek also suffers these penalties). Also, how would mount speed affect delay?

[evilcabbage]

Trust me when I say most mob npcs do not suffer from the same delay you do. You'd be amazed how incredible their reaction speeds can get.

edit: And don't even get me STARTED on the infamous "mob enters the room and attacks:DOUBLE ATTACK" that certain mobs somehow randomly get.

[Barsook]

I don't dig this.

[ShaLeah]

I don't dig this.

Ditto.
I love though, 7DV!

And don't even get me STARTED on the infamous "mob enters the room and attacks:DOUBLE ATTACK" that certain mobs somehow randomly get.

Ditto!

[Narf]

As an alternative you could do:

walking - delay before and after movement
running - delay after movement

A good jog is about twice as fast as a walking pace for most people, so this would seem appropriate.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Is it the delays that are throwing folks?

[A Large Bag]

I've tried similar things on other games and they turned me off from playing. Too much time spend in delays. I like it the way it is personally.

[Desertman]

A bahamet arrives from the north.

Ten seconds is nine seconds too long when that happens. You have to move, immediately, or instant reel-lock death.

[evilcabbage]

A delay BEFORE and AFTER movement is RETARDED. That's even WORSE, because now if you want to flee a room you have to fucking wait BEFORE you can even leave the room, and then that Mek or Bahamet just fucking ate you.

[FreeRangeVestric]

I'm a little torn on this. I do think people are able to move across vast expanses of wilderness entirely too quickly, but on the other hand, I see the playability issues adding to movement delay would bring up. Especially since, as people have pointed out, insta-kill mobs don't really have to play by the same rules as PCs do, even as things already are.

Maybe there should also be a delay added to the time between "A terrifying bahamet arrives from the north" and "A terrifying bahamet annihilates you on the neck, doing horrendous damage" to balance things out a little bit?

[evilcabbage]

There is a delay. Sometimes that delay is .0001 seconds, but there is a delay.

[RogueGunslinger]

You're wrong.

There is a Delay for mobs. Nyr went through this a few months ago in a very big thread. NPC's suffer the same delays that PC's do. Hey look, I found the thread:


http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,44712.msg725512.html#msg725512

Ok, so the issue we actually found isn't the issue we actually found?

No.  To say that sometimes aggressive NPCs attack instantly or that the response time to a particular NPC is variable is largely saying the same thing.

We're not saying that, though.  In fact, we've found that aggressive NPCs do not (and should not) attack instantly.  We found a bug in a script that allowed this to occur with a particular NPC type.  We fixed it.

[evilcabbage]

Not from my experience, I've seen mobs pop in and have -very- very short delay timers when attacking. I've seen mobs execute two attacks instantly, which they should not be able to do. And the mob that executed two attacks is one of those that can just about kill you in one shot anyways, so.

[Fujikoma]

And if this is about people running away from arrows, I've seen a perfectly healthy human being taken out of the saddle, instadeath by arrow, so...

[Lizzie]

I'm another person who loves 7DV but doesn't love this idea.

I've experienced it in another game, like one other of you, and it was a total turn-off to that game, like one of you. It isn't a deal-breaker, but it's just too "code-ey" for my tastes. I already know I'm turning to the south. If I didn't want to turn to the south, I wouldn't have typed south. I don't need the game to tell me, or anyone else, that I'm turning to the south. Everyone will know that I'm turning to the south, when they see my character - go south. If I want to -only- turn south, but not actually go there, that's what emotes are for.

[evilcabbage]

This

Yes. I played a game like that where it did that stuff, I think a lot of us have played that game (*cough*uruk hai*cough* minas tirith*cough*) and eventually I was turned on to Arm. And when I came here, the one thing that struck me as neat was the coded instantly moving from one room to the other, with the delay after the fact. I kind of like that, I like it the way it is, and I think the changes that Venomz is offering up are actually detrimental to the game, more than helpful.

[valeria]

I wouldn't mind splitting the existing delay in half, with half in each room, and the messages suggested.  I don't like more delay.  I already get frustrated with the delay we have, sometimes.  Other times it has saved my character's life, giving me enough time to type out a giant STOP, so I guess I'm okay with it.

You need to haul butt cause that giant beasty just entered your room?  You would see it start to enter your room, so why are you waiting until it's in there?  Better start hauling before it arrives and its movement delay pops and it eats your face.

[evilcabbage]

I wouldn't mind splitting the existing delay in half, with half in each room, and the messages suggested.  I don't like more delay.  I already get frustrated with the delay we have, sometimes.  Other times it has saved my character's life, giving me enough time to type out a giant STOP, so I guess I'm okay with it.

You need to haul butt cause that giant beasty just entered your room?  You would see it start to enter your room, so why are you waiting until it's in there?  Better start hauling before it arrives and its movement delay pops and it eats your face.

How do you know you'd see it entering the room?

And then there's the delay of you actually entering the command to leave that room, which by then that beasties delay could end and he could reel lock you. Absolutely not. The delay is fine as it is.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I should have left out the delay. The meat of the idea were the echoes and the ldescs. The delays all assumed that NPCs had the same delay. It was birthed with the idea that instant movement sucks in certain situations.

[valeria]

I wouldn't mind splitting the existing delay in half, with half in each room, and the messages suggested.  I don't like more delay.  I already get frustrated with the delay we have, sometimes.  Other times it has saved my character's life, giving me enough time to type out a giant STOP, so I guess I'm okay with it.

You need to haul butt cause that giant beasty just entered your room?  You would see it start to enter your room, so why are you waiting until it's in there?  Better start hauling before it arrives and its movement delay pops and it eats your face.

How do you know you'd see it entering the room?

And then there's the delay of you actually entering the command to leave that room, which by then that beasties delay could end and he could reel lock you. Absolutely not. The delay is fine as it is.

I was under the impression that in the OP, 'so and so is entering from the X' would echo into the room that they're entering into.  So you would see that they're entering, you start leaving, in theory by the time they enter fully and wait off the second half of the delay and would be able to attack you, you're already in the next room.

It would have the same practical effect as the current system, where you see them enter, you zoom off while they're delayed, and while you're in turn delayed in the next room they come after you.  Except that if they're following close enough they might actually be able to see which direction you've gone more easily, which could lead to more realistic chase scenes.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Valeria is correct.

[evilcabbage]

The emotes and movement ldescs may be neat, but I don't think they fit into this MUD where you can pretty much emote it out yourself.

[Nyr]

Not from my experience, I've seen mobs pop in and have -very- very short delay timers when attacking. I've seen mobs execute two attacks instantly, which they should not be able to do. And the mob that executed two attacks is one of those that can just about kill you in one shot anyways, so.

Did you click that link?  You even chimed in there...then...and had that refuted...

I've experienced this double-attack bug, on the receiving end. It is not nice at all. I have yet to perform the double-attack, unless I'm wielding two weapons! So would I get a quadruple attack if the bug kicked in my favor?

[Desertman]

I should have left out the delay. The meat of the idea were the echoes and the ldescs. The delays all assumed that NPCs had the same delay. It was birthed with the idea that instant movement sucks in certain situations.

Now, if mobs get the same delay, I have no problem with this idea. In fact I like it.

[evilcabbage]

Not from my experience, I've seen mobs pop in and have -very- very short delay timers when attacking. I've seen mobs execute two attacks instantly, which they should not be able to do. And the mob that executed two attacks is one of those that can just about kill you in one shot anyways, so.

Did you click that link?  You even chimed in there...then...and had that refuted...

I've experienced this double-attack bug, on the receiving end. It is not nice at all. I have yet to perform the double-attack, unless I'm wielding two weapons! So would I get a quadruple attack if the bug kicked in my favor?

I am saying that very very recently a mob with no weapons railed me with a doubleattack. It -only- happens if the mob initiates attack, and it's a couple mobs that do it.
And it's not always with two aggro mobs. It's -one- mob doing an attack -twice-.

[MeTekillot]

Are you sure you didn't like attack a skeet and then like it's hidden skeet friend assisted him

[evilcabbage]

Uh, yeah, it was not a skeet, it was not its hidden friend, IT initiated combat and doublestruck me.

[Qzzrbl]

Request tool + logs > GDB

[evilcabbage]

When/if it happens again I plan to do just that.

[Nyr]

Not from my experience, I've seen mobs pop in and have -very- very short delay timers when attacking. I've seen mobs execute two attacks instantly, which they should not be able to do. And the mob that executed two attacks is one of those that can just about kill you in one shot anyways, so.

Did you click that link?  You even chimed in there...then...and had that refuted...

I've experienced this double-attack bug, on the receiving end. It is not nice at all. I have yet to perform the double-attack, unless I'm wielding two weapons! So would I get a quadruple attack if the bug kicked in my favor?

I am saying that very very recently a mob with no weapons railed me with a doubleattack. It -only- happens if the mob initiates attack, and it's a couple mobs that do it.
And it's not always with two aggro mobs. It's -one- mob doing an attack -twice-.

Did you click that link?  You chimed in there with the same argument, a year ago, on a thread that had links to a thread a year before that explaining the testing process and everything we'd done.  You're repeating yourself without giving any more information.  As Morgenes said, provide a timestamped log.  The code doesn't work this way.  We've tested it numerous times.  If it does get you the results you've seen then it is either:

lag
a bug in the code
a bug in a script
a feature of a script

Please provide a timestamped log in the request tool, or at least tell us what the npc was.

[evilcabbage]

I will, I will, I SWEAR, the second it happens again I will screenshot it and timestamp it and this it and that it. It's happened, it nearly bloody killed me, that's why I mention it. As I've seen it is, literally, TWO specific mobs that do it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Haha.

[Nyr]

I will, I will, I SWEAR, the second it happens again I will screenshot it and timestamp it and this it and that it. It's happened, it nearly bloody killed me, that's why I mention it. As I've seen it is, literally, TWO specific mobs that do it.

If you don't have a log handy, could you at least tell us what the NPC was?

[jcortrig]

I will, I will, I SWEAR, the second it happens again I will screenshot it and timestamp it and this it and that it. It's happened, it nearly bloody killed me, that's why I mention it. As I've seen it is, literally, TWO specific mobs that do it.

If you don't have a log handy, could you at least tell us what the NPC was?

I've seen the double-attack thing as well, with gith in the tablelands, amongst other things.  I'll try to get an example logged, too.

[Nyr]

I will, I will, I SWEAR, the second it happens again I will screenshot it and timestamp it and this it and that it. It's happened, it nearly bloody killed me, that's why I mention it. As I've seen it is, literally, TWO specific mobs that do it.

If you don't have a log handy, could you at least tell us what the NPC was?

I've seen the double-attack thing as well, with gith in the tablelands, amongst other things.  I'll try to get an example logged, too.

Taking a look at gith scripts now.

[Kronibas]

You stop watching the south exit.
The dude pokes your foot, nicking you.
You deftly parry the dude's attack.
The dude lightly pokes your waist.
You deftly parry the dude's attack.

You're fighting for your life!

That's what it looks like when the double attack thing happens.  But I don't think this is a bug... Raptors have done it occasionally for as long as I can remember.

[manonfire]

I figured that was normal, agility-based attacking.

If this is a bug, can I get my ranger from 2006 resurrected plz tia.

[RogueGunslinger]

While we're on the subject, how come sometimes it seems like you just wont attack for days, and other times you swing 10 times in a  row really fast. And other times it's medium paced.

Shits crazy.

[Twilight]

Its just the normal combat pacing putting the first aggro attack(s) into the same displayed combat round as the next hits.  Normal combat pacing, how fast you are hitting and who gets to do the attacks being determined by ***tnarssimsoin smarclbed***

It happened to me in the last couple of days, fighting a scrab.  My combat round looked like:

The scrab hits at you but you dodge out of the way.
The scrab hits at you but you dodge out of the way.
You whack at the scrab and hit it.
You whack at the scrab and hit it.

So one block of attacks together, but its really no different than:

The scrab hits at you but you dodge out of the way.

The scrab hits at you but you dodge out of the way.
You whack at the scrab and hit it.
You whack at the scrab and hit it.

It just has to do with how the combat pacing showed up in "rounds" of attacks.

[evilcabbage]

I will, I will, I SWEAR, the second it happens again I will screenshot it and timestamp it and this it and that it. It's happened, it nearly bloody killed me, that's why I mention it. As I've seen it is, literally, TWO specific mobs that do it.

If you don't have a log handy, could you at least tell us what the NPC was?

I'll send in a request stating which two NPCs -I've- had the experience with.

[Nyr]

Based on an in-depth discussion about this from Tiernan...any double attack bug is a double attack feature.  In other words, yes, sometimes something (even you) might get two attacks from striking first. 

[evilcabbage]

Based on an in-depth discussion about this from Tiernan...any double attack bug is a double attack feature.  In other words, yes, sometimes something (even you) might get two attacks from striking first. 

Never had it happen. Once. Ever.

[manonfire]

Based on an in-depth discussion about this from Tiernan...any double attack bug is a double attack feature.  In other words, yes, sometimes something (even you) might get two attacks from striking first. 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=It's%20not%20a%20bug%2C%20it's%20a%20feature

[evilcabbage]

As I am well known for being Han Solo against mobs (I ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST),

I have NEVER received a double attack, EVER, from attacking a mob first. The only time I doubleattack is when I'm using two weapons, and that is -clearly- not a doubleattack.

[RogueGunslinger]

As I am well known for being Han Solo against mobs (I ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST),

I have NEVER received a double attack, EVER, from attacking a mob first. The only time I doubleattack is when I'm using two weapons, and that is -clearly- not a doubleattack.

And I have NEVER seen a double attack bug from an NPC. Feature seems pretty rare, yeah? Your anecdote and mine mean nothing.

[MeTekillot]

Based on an in-depth discussion about this from Tiernan...any double attack bug is a double attack feature.  In other words, yes, sometimes something (even you) might get two attacks from striking first. 

Never had it happen. Once. Ever.

prioritize agility

[Cabooze]

Based on an in-depth discussion about this from Tiernan...any double attack bug is a double attack feature.  In other words, yes, sometimes something (even you) might get two attacks from striking first. 

Never had it happen. Once. Ever.

prioritize agility

Prioritize agility indeed. I've had a ******* (ye shant know thy race) manage to pull off the double attack before. It was -very- satisfying.

[Nyr]

As I am well known for being Han Solo against mobs (I ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST),

I have NEVER received a double attack, EVER, from attacking a mob first. The only time I doubleattack is when I'm using two weapons, and that is -clearly- not a doubleattack.

Anecdote does not trump code.

[evilcabbage]

If I pull off a doubleattack I'll be more than happy to drop my claim, but until the day I see this:

you solidly the thing
you solidly the thing

and I'm just a normal everyday guy with one weapon, I am going to continue to believe that there is a bug in the system that is causing NPCs to attack more than once when they get First Strike.

Then again, maybe I'm not skilled enough for First Strike...


TIME TO RAISE ALL THE SKILLS?


Also, as long as ther isn't a modification/added delay to movement, I say it's good, but we just managed to make Nyr derail a thread -with us-.

[Nyr]

If I ever get struck by lightning I'll be more than happy to drop my claim, but until the day I see this:

you get struck by lightning

and I'm just a normal everyday guy with an equally likely chance to get struck by lightning assuming all variables are equal which they aren't but I'm overlooking that right now for the sake of being facetious, I am going to continue to believe that there is a bug in the universe that is causing some people to get struck by lightning when the conditions are appropriate for that sort of thing to occur, even though it is admittedly rare.

FTFY

As to the OP proposal, I'm afraid that's a very, very drastic code change and is unlikely to be implemented.  To prevent further derail along the lines of "I've never seen this happen therefore it never happens," I'm locking the thread.