Social Etiquette

[Yummri]

Ok, so I've been trying to get a few people into the game. (don't worry not more blind people yet lol) And many of them are asking me the same questions.

How do you know what house/clan/tribe a person belongs to?
How do you know what rank a person is in their house?
How do you address the people of that rank. i.e agent or something else.
How do you know who is and who is not a Chosen Noble?
How do you address a person even if you do?

And honestly I'm not really able to answer  any of these questions. And I haven't really been able to find anything on th main site or elsewhere to answer the questions or direct them to.

So please could you help with this. It would be easiest I think if it was broken down into North/south and the houses and various clans etc. But this woul d greatly helop with roleplay and maybe a helpfile or a place on the main site could be added?

[Hitsuchi]

I know there's this:

This is a reference guide to the most common uniforms and rings associated with various clans and ranks within the clans of Armageddon, brought to you by the various players of the game and the community around the General Discussion Board. This guide is kept intentionally vague; while your characters will be able to discern the most basic information from a clan member's attire, IC interaction to figure out the true relevance of that person's position in the clan and the world is encouraged. It will hopefully be helpful to new players and players returning from hiatus.

Most people in the Known world would know about...
a black leather and steel-grey sandcloth greatcloak - House Salarr
a bone ring with an eclipse signet - House Kurac family member.
a gemstone-embroidered sandcloth djellabah - House Kadius.
a hooded brown military aba - T'zai Byn.
a hooded, coal-black sandcloth dustcloak - Kurac.
a hooded, dun-colored dustcloak - Kurac.
a jet-inlaid marble signet ring - Salarr family member.
a lapis lazuli signet ring with an evening stone - Kadius family member.
a long, crested ebon silk dustcloak - Salarr.
a long, crested grey silk dustcloak - Salarr.
an oiled, decorated leather aba - Kadius.
an orange cloth epaulette - Salarr.
a pair of blue and purple armbands - Kadius.
a pair of one-striped studded sleeves - A T'zai Byn Trooper.
a pair of two-striped studded sleeves - A T'zai Byn Sergeant.

If you're from Allanak, you would know about...

an amethyst and jade silver signet ring - House Fale nobility.
a black leather patch with a jade cross - Arm of the Dragon
a grey, wyvern-adorned hooded aba - Borsail Wyvern.
a hooded, black and azure aba - House Oash.
a hooded black militia dustcloak - standard militia uniform (Arm of the Dragon).
a hooded, crimson linen aba - House Borsail.
various scorpion-emblazoned cloaks - House Tor.
a slender crimson and silver ring - House Borsail nobility.
a silver ring set with an azure stone - House Oash nobility.
a silver signet ring - House Tor nobility.

If you're from Tuluk, you would know about...

a hooded, blaze-sigiled black greatcloak - House Tenneshi .
a hooded, kenku-embroidered greatcloak - House Winrothol .
a hooded, kenku-stitched jade cloak - House Winrothol.
a hooded, mace-stitched grey linen cloak - House Lyksae.
a hooded, red and brown greatcloak - House Dasari.
a long, hooded red and white tabard - standard Legionnaire uniform (Utep Sun Clan, aka The Legions).
a ruby and moonstone inlaid, silver signet ring - House Lyksae nobility.
a silver-and-gold, scale-sigiled signet ring - House Kassigarh nobility.
a silver and sapphire signet ring - House Uaptal nobility.
a silver, blossom-sigiled signet ring - House Dasari nobility.
a silver, kenku-carved signet ring - House Winrothol nobility.
a silver ring emblazoned with a gold sun - House Tenneshi nobility.
a silver signet ring - House Negean nobility.

Found on the website under the documentation part of the Original Submissions. It doesn't have everything, and if the nobles are wearing gloves, you'd have no idea anyway. It's a start, at least.

[Lizzie]

Ok, so I've been trying to get a few people into the game. (don't worry not more blind people yet lol) And many of them are asking me the same questions.

How do you know what house/clan/tribe a person belongs to?
How do you know what rank a person is in their house?
How do you address the people of that rank. i.e agent or something else.
How do you know who is and who is not a Chosen Noble?
How do you address a person even if you do?

And honestly I'm not really able to answer  any of these questions. And I haven't really been able to find anything on th main site or elsewhere to answer the questions or direct them to.

So please could you help with this. It would be easiest I think if it was broken down into North/south and the houses and various clans etc. But this woul d greatly helop with roleplay and maybe a helpfile or a place on the main site could be added?

It already is broken down into north/south and the houses and various clans. It's on the main website here: www.armageddon.org and right smack dab in the middle, on the top under the game banner, is the word "CLANS" with a drop-down menu. The houses and their "colors" are detailed under the appropriate region - north or south. GMHs (Greater Merchant Houses) have their own section since they're not specific to a region and are instead worldwide.

Specific answers to specific questions:
How do you know what house/clan/tribe a person belongs to?
You don't always know. But if you look at someone, and they're wearing what appears to be a "special" outer garment (such as a hooded, jade-emblazoned black silk greatcloak, you can type "look springy's greatcloak" (assuming it's the springy-haired, freckle-peppered lass), and get a description of the cloak. Usually (but not always) the description will tell OR imply that the design is part of a house's livery.

Also, if they're wearing a signet ring on their finger (which you would be able to see as long as they're not wearing gloves), the signet ring will either state plainly which house it's for, or it will give a specific detail that you can match up with the website's data.

How do you know what rank a person is in their house?
You don't always know. Usually, if it's a military group's PC (such as the Byn, or the Kuraci Fist, or the Legion, for example) a single stripe on a sleeve or shoulder-something will indicate an officer, but a low-ranking officer. That'd be at least a step up from recruit, who would not typically get any stripes at all. Two stripes always indicates someone of "significance." A metal signet ring ALWAYS indicates someone of importance - even merchant house family members don't get to wear them until they've achieved a significant rank.

How do you address the people of that rank. i.e agent or something else.
Usually the person in question will tell you how he wishes to be addressed when he introduces himself to you. Example:
"Oh hello young plebian unimportant, but potential customer. I'm Overseer Minverisa Kadius."
Call that one Overseer.
"Hey, nice ta meetcha there, my new best friend who's gonna be spyin on S'larr for me and makin me richer than I already am.  Korvlot-da Kurac, Agenty-type o'fella, at yer service."
Call that one Korvlet-da, never leave the -da off (it's a familial title given to male Kurac family. Females end in -di). You -could- call him Agent, but he's basically given you permission to call him Korvlot-da.

If they don't make it clear to you, it's okay to ask, ICly. If your character cares. Or your character might just call everyone Sir and Ma'am and let them correct you if they don't like it. I had a character who did that

How do you know who is and who is not a Chosen Noble?
Chosen is a term used exclusively for northern nobility. If they're a southern noble, they won't be a Chosen anything. That's just to clarify.
If they're nobility, north or south, they will be wearing a metal signet ring of their house, and they will *usually* be dressed very well. If they have a guard with them, look at their guard. If their guard is wearing the livery of a noble house, then you can be pretty confident that the person they're guarding is a noble. This might not always be the case, but exceptions would be rare.

How do you address a person even if you do? Chosen Lord/Lady, Faithful Lord/Lady, for northern nobles/templars, respectively. My Lord/Lady, My Lord/Lady Templar, for southern nobles/templars, respectively. You can leave the "My" off for templars if your character isn't too concerned about formalities but still wants to enjoy the head attached to his shoulders

[Jherlen]

A lot of this info is more fun to learn in game! Trust me, it's okay to not know all the insignia and ranks of all houses and tribes in both cities as a player. There are actually schools/tutors in both cities that train aides and socialites on this kind of thing. So rather than trying to assemble an exhaustive list of all insignia, I hope you won't mind some more general answers.

How do you know what house/clan/tribe a person belongs to?

For noble houses, you can look at the clans page for both cities:
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Allanaki%20Clans
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Tuluki%20Clans

These have basic info about each house including their colors and symbols. (There used to be other docs about nobility in both cities, I guess they haven't made it to the new website yet?) Not everyone wearing black and silver is a Tenneshi, but if you see someone who's wearing a lot of those colors and also has the Tenneshi symbol on their cloak or jewelry, it wouldn't be a bad guess!

How do you know what rank a person is in their house?

If you haven't been introduced and aren't familiar with their clan insignia, you may not. But typically, people of higher ranks will have fancier uniforms and more obvious markings, while lower level recruits and privates may just have an armband or a patch or something.

How do you address the people of that rank. i.e agent or something else.

If they look important and/or you're scared of them and/or you're a nice person, and/or you want something from them, ask them politely what their title is and how they'd prefer to be addressed. If you're a rougher type, a simple "What the krath am I supposed to call you?" will suffice.

How do you know who is and who is not a Chosen Noble?

One dead giveaway is if they're wearing a silver signet ring on their finger. Also, nobility typically will always have at least one NPC guard with them in public. Nobles typically (but not always these days) wear lots of silk, or at least dress fancier than the average commoner can afford. If you guess wrong and address a commoner as a noble, the commoner will definitely probably correct you, because nobody wants to be accused of acting that far above their place in either city. One note, the term "Chosen" only applies in the north.

Lastly, don't be afraid to make a mistake! It may be scary at first, but some fun interaction can happen when you make a little breach of etiquette here and there. You might even find someone ICly who can take you under wing and help you learn the ropes, so to speak.

[Yummri]

Thank you for you inputs everyone. I've been enjoying finding things out. But I wasn't capable of answering some of these questions. Having somewhere to direct people to is very helpful and the people I'm talking to will appreciate it greatly.

[slvrmoontiger]

I wanted to further comment on this.

Chosen Lord/Lady you address as Chosen Lord/Chosen Lady.
Templars in the north address as Faithful Lord/Faithful Lady.

I've never heard of anyone addressing them with My first unless they are part of the House or a Patron to the Faithful.

[FreeRangeVestric]

I wanted to further comment on this.

Chosen Lord/Lady you address as Chosen Lord/Chosen Lady.
Templars in the north address as Faithful Lord/Faithful Lady.

I've never heard of anyone addressing them with My first unless they are part of the House or a Patron to the Faithful.

Not sure if you were implying this as well, but they are only called 'Chosen Lord/Lady' in the north. That's a rather important bit, as doing so in Allanak could likely be seen as offensive.

That being said, people will generally note that you're a new player, and not kill you over social etiquette, in my experience. Just relax, listen, and it will come more naturally to you as you play more!

[slvrmoontiger]

I wanted to further comment on this.

Chosen Lord/Lady you address as Chosen Lord/Chosen Lady.
Templars in the north address as Faithful Lord/Faithful Lady.

I've never heard of anyone addressing them with My first unless they are part of the House or a Patron to the Faithful.

Not sure if you were implying this as well, but they are only called 'Chosen Lord/Lady' in the north. That's a rather important bit, as doing so in Allanak could likely be seen as offensive.

That being said, people will generally note that you're a new player, and not kill you over social etiquette, in my experience. Just relax, listen, and it will come more naturally to you as you play more!

Sorry, my mistake.... Yes in the north they are called Chosen Lord/Chosen Lady... They aren't even considered "Chosen" in the south, just Nobles.

[Jherlen]

By the way, in the south, if a noble or templar addresses you directly, or you enter or leave their presence, you bow. If you are (mis)fortunate enough to be in the presence of a senior noble or red/black robe templar, you may even want to consider groveling. Southern highborn are typically less appproachable than the northern types, although on the plus side, there is no caste barrier preventing them from having deeper relationships with commoners than might be the case up north.

[Mad Max]

By the way, in the south, if a noble or templar addresses you directly, or you enter or leave their presence, you bow. If you are (mis)fortunate enough to be in the presence of a senior noble or red/black robe templar, you may even want to consider groveling. Southern highborn are typically less appproachable than the northern types, although on the plus side, there is no caste barrier preventing them from having deeper relationships with commoners than might be the case up north.

And how does one process all this from entering one room to another?  (Even if I was to make all room descriptions short.)  Just standing in a room reading/listening to the board/rumors and trying to list what is available and see what all the goings on are about in said room, I have a hard time trying to keep up.  Even just a couple of people talking or emoting seems to fill up my screen rather quickly and I am desperately trying to scroll up on what was missed and retype 'look' to see if the people in the room changed, etc.  I doubt I would even be able to process who was who for the most part.  Any tricks to that?  I use MUSHclient if that helps.

[Lizzie]

By the way, in the south, if a noble or templar addresses you directly, or you enter or leave their presence, you bow. If you are (mis)fortunate enough to be in the presence of a senior noble or red/black robe templar, you may even want to consider groveling. Southern highborn are typically less appproachable than the northern types, although on the plus side, there is no caste barrier preventing them from having deeper relationships with commoners than might be the case up north.

And how does one process all this from entering one room to another?  (Even if I was to make all room descriptions short.)  Just standing in a room reading/listening to the board/rumors and trying to list what is available and see what all the goings on are about in said room, I have a hard time trying to keep up.  Even just a couple of people talking or emoting seems to fill up my screen rather quickly and I am desperately trying to scroll up on what was missed and retype 'look' to see if the people in the room changed, etc.  I doubt I would even be able to process who was who for the most part.  Any tricks to that?  I use MUSHclient if that helps.

Here's what I do when I haven't been in a location for a long time and want to catch up. It's a totally OOC thing to do, but hey - it's not as jarring as ignoring people who are trying to interact with you while you're trying to read a bulletin board.

With MUSHCLIENT (I have it too):

FILE>LOG SESSION>(click OK)>(give the file a name and make sure to remember that it's saving to the log folder in your mushclient subdirectory, which is located ON your desktop!)>SAVE
Now:
read board
read board 1
read board 2
up-arrow>backspace 3
up-arrow>backspace 4
etc. etc. etc. until you've captured every post on that board in your log file.
Go to the quit-safe room and QUIT (then type X after you quit, to be sure).

Then FILE>END LOG (or whatever it says to close the file).

THen go to the log file and read it, offline, without having to worry about interruptions.

Then log back in and play, having been 100% caught up and ready to RP.

[Jherlen]

By the way, in the south, if a noble or templar addresses you directly, or you enter or leave their presence, you bow. If you are (mis)fortunate enough to be in the presence of a senior noble or red/black robe templar, you may even want to consider groveling. Southern highborn are typically less appproachable than the northern types, although on the plus side, there is no caste barrier preventing them from having deeper relationships with commoners than might be the case up north.

And how does one process all this from entering one room to another?  (Even if I was to make all room descriptions short.)  Just standing in a room reading/listening to the board/rumors and trying to list what is available and see what all the goings on are about in said room, I have a hard time trying to keep up.  Even just a couple of people talking or emoting seems to fill up my screen rather quickly and I am desperately trying to scroll up on what was missed and retype 'look' to see if the people in the room changed, etc.  I doubt I would even be able to process who was who for the most part.  Any tricks to that?  I use MUSHclient if that helps.

The brief command helps some, if you don't want to read room descriptions. But honestly once you get into the swing of things, you'll find the game becomes much easier to follow. When I play I notice my eyes sort of skim past things that don't directly involve my character or he's not interested in at the moment in order to help keep track of what he's doing. You really only need to do this in crowded taverns though.

[Ouroboros]

By the way, in the south, if a noble or templar addresses you directly, or you enter or leave their presence, you bow. If you are (mis)fortunate enough to be in the presence of a senior noble or red/black robe templar, you may even want to consider groveling. Southern highborn are typically less appproachable than the northern types, although on the plus side, there is no caste barrier preventing them from having deeper relationships with commoners than might be the case up north.

And how does one process all this from entering one room to another?  (Even if I was to make all room descriptions short.)  Just standing in a room reading/listening to the board/rumors and trying to list what is available and see what all the goings on are about in said room, I have a hard time trying to keep up.  Even just a couple of people talking or emoting seems to fill up my screen rather quickly and I am desperately trying to scroll up on what was missed and retype 'look' to see if the people in the room changed, etc.  I doubt I would even be able to process who was who for the most part.  Any tricks to that?  I use MUSHclient if that helps.

Pro Tip: For nobility, and sometimes GMH family as well, look for characters who walk in pairs or more. More often then not, nobility will travel with a guard (or ten). So when you see two or more characters walk into the room together, it's a good hint to look at one of them and check of House-specific insignia. It's by no means a hard-fast rule, as commoners often might follow one another, and likewise nobility might travel alone. But it's at least an indicator you can use, until you learn the current sdescs of whatever nobility is active where you're playing. You can also look for everyone else bowing, if other PC's are present, and do the same. Templars, you don't need a hint or trick to recognize, their short description flat-out states what they are, both north and south.

Lastly, most Nobles won't be offended if don't stop to bow when you're simply walking past them on the street. There's hundreds of virtual commoners walking along the crowded streets and not every single one will stop and bow for every single Noble (or even Templar sometimes) passing by them. They're going where they need to go, you're going where you need to go, it's business as usual. Bowing is expected at their arrival, or when addressed, for the most. It's also a good idea to bow to any present ones in a room you enter and stay in, but you're usually offered some modicum of time to actually look through present folk's descriptions and identify they're Nobility before having to bow. Less so when they're the ones entering the room though.

[armacc]

In the north you only bow your head to the Nobles and Templars.
In the south you bow or curtsy fully.

[slvrmoontiger]

In the north you only bow your head to the Nobles and Templars.
In the south you bow or curtsy fully.

You do not bow in the north. A respectful nod is all that is required and even wanted in the north.

[manonfire]

I've had characters bow to northern nobility and templars when I felt like they had a reason to be uber grateful for something.

[manipura]

In the north you only bow your head to the Nobles and Templars.
In the south you bow or curtsy fully.

You do not bow in the north. A respectful nod is all that is required and even wanted in the north.

Pretty sure that 'bowing your head' is the same as nodding.

[Jherlen]

bow your head

respectful nod

[slvrmoontiger]

Bowing seems formal and slow and left to linger...

A nod is just a quick acknowledgment. Per the documentation I've seen it says that bowing the head is not something wanted because it reminds them of the time when Tuluki's had to bow during the time of Allanaki control over Tuluk.

Can we get some clarification from staff on this one?

[manonfire]

You want clarification from staff on the difference between bowing your head and nodding your head?

Since the now distant struggles of the Tuluki people against Allanak's occupation, the prevalent custom of bowing to nobles and templars has declined. During the occupation, many citizens of Gol Krathu were forced to bow to their oppressors. Most of these people only did so out of fear, rather than respect. Now that Tuluk is ruled by the servants of the Sun King, most Tuluki nobles and templars, while knowing full well that they are better than commoners, wouldn't usually feel the need to make people bow to them. They would consider it more respectful for a commoner to show their respect in a more productive manner, such as service to them or their respective house. While bowing isn't expected, it isn't necessarily considered a disrespectful act, either. But if a noble or templar feels that a person is insincere while bowing to them, trying only to curry favor with them, they may take offense (but may or not show it). The people that are usually bowing are servants or someone that is already serving that noble or templar in some capacity, these people are usually not total strangers. In fact, it is far more common to see people in Tuluk bow only their heads in respect to a noble or templar when they see them. This custom has evolved out of recognizance of the position of the highborn compared to the lesser people. A higher-ranked noble or templar would certainly warrant a greater show of respect.

Come on dude, make an effort.

[manipura]

You want clarification from staff on the difference between bowing your head and nodding your head?

Since the now distant struggles of the Tuluki people against Allanak's occupation, the prevalent custom of bowing to nobles and templars has declined. During the occupation, many citizens of Gol Krathu were forced to bow to their oppressors. Most of these people only did so out of fear, rather than respect. Now that Tuluk is ruled by the servants of the Sun King, most Tuluki nobles and templars, while knowing full well that they are better than commoners, wouldn't usually feel the need to make people bow to them. They would consider it more respectful for a commoner to show their respect in a more productive manner, such as service to them or their respective house. While bowing isn't expected, it isn't necessarily considered a disrespectful act, either. But if a noble or templar feels that a person is insincere while bowing to them, trying only to curry favor with them, they may take offense (but may or not show it). The people that are usually bowing are servants or someone that is already serving that noble or templar in some capacity, these people are usually not total strangers. In fact, it is far more common to see people in Tuluk bow only their heads in respect to a noble or templar when they see them. This custom has evolved out of recognizance of the position of the highborn compared to the lesser people. A higher-ranked noble or templar would certainly warrant a greater show of respect.

Come on dude, make an effort.

Hmm, it would seem that the documentation has taken into account the various speeds of one's head movement and has deemed bowing of the head and nodding of the head to be the same thing.
Whew.

[Jherlen]

Well, we are talking about Tuluk, where subtle distinctions matter...

Code Select Expand

The Sun King's Sanctuary [NESWU]
I forget the desc and I'm too lazy to look it up.

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble is sitting here at a polished wooden bar.

The tall, muscular man has arrived from the north.

Glancing around the room, the tall, muscular man bows his head respectfully to the foppish, dappled-dickens noble.

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble thinks:
   "He -bowed his head- to me?! That ASSHOLE."

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble contacts the fiery-haired, totally-not-a-secret-magicker aide with the Way.

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble sends a message to fiery-haired, totally-not-a-secret-magicker aide over the Way:
   "Aide Infernoa, find me a good shartist... er, shadow artist. A man here bowed his head to me instead of just nodding."

The fiery-haired, totally-not-a-secret-magicker sends a message to the foppish, dappled-dickens noble over the Way:
   "It will be done, Chosen Lord."

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble thinks:
   "Good... good.... muahahahhahaa."

The foppish, dappled-dickens noble smiles subtly.

[HavokBlue]

Just wanted to add that I've also seen/used "milord" and "milady" to refer to nobles in the south. I would stick to the Lord Templar or Lady Templar when speaking to the Templarate though.

[James de Monet]

never leave the -da off (it's a familial title given to male Kurac family. Females end in -di). You -could- call him Agent, but he's basically given you permission to call him Korvlot-da.

I disagree with this. From reading the clan docs, it seems (seemed) to me that both -da and -di are honorifics used within House Kurac. It is easy to understand why others would adopt the practice, hearing Kuracis address their family members so, but it is my feeling that any Kuraci introducing themselves to non-house personnel as -da or -di is in error.

(IIRC, the reason for this impression had something to do with where that data was presented in the docs, which was in an area that detailed other customs internal to the house, related to language and guardianship, that I will intentionally leave vague.)

[James de Monet]

I should probably clarify that a mite.

I don't think any Kuraci asking people to address them so is in error, but I think most would be.

If my understanding of the docs is correct, the suffix is kind of a mix between an honorific and a term of endearment. So, if Amos Kurac asks people to call him Amos-da, that's a bit like asking people to call him Uncle Amos, or like Don Corleone asking people to call him the Godfather. Does this make sense within the House to foster bonds and loyalty between the staff/soldiers and the family? Yes.

Would Amos ask the cops (city militia) to address him so? Only if they were in his pocket.

Would he ask a noble to address him so? No. They don't owe him an honorific, and it would be familiar and presumptuous of him.

Would he ask a Templar? Hell no.


The point is, it's an honorific, not a title. It's the difference between "Prince" Charles and "Your Royal Highness". Would the Queen call Charles "Prince Charles"? Maybe. Prince is his title, it's part of who he is. But she isn't going to call him "Your Royal Highness" (except in really weird formal occasions) because she outranks him. Honorifics go up, not usually down.