Marriage helpfile changes

[Nyr]

The marriage helpfile has been changed to better reflect Zalanthas.

Marriage contracts in-game have very little relation to the modern real-world institution of marriage, though it shares the name and origins.  In Zalanthas, marriage is a contract pertaining to the exchange of goods and services between noble houses (and, to a lesser extent, great merchant houses).  They tend towards being about the exchange of offspring, but they can also revolve around entirely material exchanges.  It has no relation to individuals outside of their stipulated duty relating to the marriage.  One might say that marriage in Zalanthas (in this context) has more in common with hostage-taking and slave-trading than it does with a proposal of vows and lifelong love.

The difference between this document and the prior documentation is that the prior documentation made exceptions for similar ceremonies and agreements for commoners, though they weren't recognized by the templarate.  This documentation change makes it clear that there aren't similar ceremonies or agreements for commoners, and that commoners taking mates is of no consequence or interest to the nobility or the templarate.  Ideally, PCs should be played like real people, and yes, real people can and do develop relationships.  There is no prohibition on having relationships (lasting, monogamous, or otherwise) as a Zalanthan commoner, but just keep in mind that these do not get formal recognition in any fashion.

We've also noticed that the quickstart guide is missing on the new site, which isn't a terrible loss, but it did have some interesting details laying out Zalanthan sexuality and the lack of sexism in Zalanthas.  We will need to find a new place to put that information.  We are also aware about the Bards of Poets' Circle docs that will need to be adjusted to account for this.

If you have questions about these docs, feel free to jump in!

[Barzalene]

Yay

This is neat.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Does this mean that those involved in a contract doesn't usually have one of the married moving to and taking the name of the other family now? Or is that something that will still happen from time to time?

[ShaLeah]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I liked the Quickstart! It is a terrible loss!

[Nyr]

Does this mean that those involved in a contract doesn't usually have one of the married moving to and taking the name of the other family now? Or is that something that will still happen from time to time?

All of that stuff hasn't changed, and that has been more of a "noble/gmh" documentation thing.

[Ouroboros]

Good to see this clarified once and for all, it left a grey area in the past that has caused more problems than good in my opinion.

The quickstart guide did indeed have helpful information, and should likely find a new home somewhere. If those tidbits are all that isn't addressed elsewhere and the document as a whole is no longer needed due to redundancy though, perhaps a simple "Genders in Zalanthas" could elaborate on concepts such as sexism, sexuality, marriage (or lack there of), and perhaps even whores and their place in [each] society. A thought.

[slvrmoontiger]

As well as the all important OOC Consent information to graphical situations.

[Qzzrbl]

>rent with <mate>

The only ceremony we've ever needed.

[Pale Horse]

>rent with <mate>

The only ceremony we've ever needed.

It's multipurpose.

Mating, Gambling, practicing of secret magicz, murder, betrayal.

It's the end all, be all of ceremonies!

..that being said, I wonder if, assuming Zalanthas was a "real" place and what goes on IG were actually how things were, the peoples of the Known would develop a singular word that meant Marriage/Mating/Murder/Betrayal, etc.

[BadSkeelz]

I've found "murdertrigger" to be a pretty good Zalanthan equivalent of "spouse."

[bcw81]

Code Select Expand

Alias kill backstab *mate* (lovingly)

[Timetwister]

Is this to say that a marriage between say two great Merchant House family members wouldn't be recognized?

[Molten Heart]

Is this to say that marriage in Zalanthas is only between two rich and powerful political people?

[manonfire]

Is this to say that

fuck it, got nothing

[LauraMars]

I am glad about this.

[ShaLeah]

Is this to say that a marriage between say two great Merchant House family members wouldn't be recognized?

It is recognized, and recorded on the city state. Maybe we should have a formal term to differentiate between marriage and the contractual union between merchant houses?

I propose Nuptial Trade. Heh.

[Barzalene]

Is this to say that a marriage between say two great Merchant House family members wouldn't be recognized?

It is recognized, and recorded on the city state. Maybe we should have a formal term to differentiate between marriage and the contractual union between merchant houses?

I propose Nuptial Trade. Heh.

Civil Union?

[ShaLeah]

Is this to say that a marriage between say two great Merchant House family members wouldn't be recognized?

It is recognized, and recorded on the city state. Maybe we should have a formal term to differentiate between marriage and the contractual union between merchant houses?

I propose Nuptial Trade. Heh.

Civil Union?

It's not a union though. Most are for a limited time, limited coin, limited offspring.  Afaik noble marriages are for life unless otherwise stipulated. 

We really should have a word, civil union doesn't grab me but the powers that be make that decision.

[Nyr]

Is this to say that a marriage between say two great Merchant House family members wouldn't be recognized?

Merchant houses also form formalized unions for much the same
reasons as the nobility. The contracts are often identical to a
marriage contract and they are also registered with the city state.  
The main difference is that because the parties involved are not noble,
the union is not called a marriage.

They're also registered with the city-state.  It doesn't really matter what it's called in the long run; it's an agreement that is written down.

Is this to say that marriage in Zalanthas is only between two rich and powerful political people?

Yes.  If you want to get married, you'll need to be a noble or GMH family member, then hope that you get set up with someone you can tolerate.  If you can't tolerate them, I guess you'd better find a way to kill them in a way that benefits you and your House the most without you getting painted as the killer.

It's another Zalanthan juxtaposition.  Yay, you can read and write and you are more educated than 99% of the world's populace!  Too bad you're a political pawn for your House sometimes.

[Jherlen]

So what would a Kuraci getting wedded to a Kadian call that arrangement? This almost happened to me some years ago and I think we were referring to it as a "marriage contract" back then. I'm cool with not using the m-word if you're a merchant, but what term would merchants use instead? And after the wedding, would it be correct to say "Here's my wife, Bitsy Kadius", or are "husband/wife" also terms only used by nobles?

[ShaLeah]

So what would a Kuraci getting wedded to a Kadian call that arrangement? This almost happened to me some years ago and I think we were referring to it as a "marriage contract" back then. I'm cool with not using the m-word if you're a merchant, but what term would merchants use instead? And after the wedding, would it be correct to say "Here's my wife, Bitsy Kadius", or are "husband/wife" also terms only used by nobles?

Ceebeeteeay
C B T A
Chief breeding trading associate

[Nyr]

So what would a Kuraci getting wedded to a Kadian call that arrangement? This almost happened to me some years ago and I think we were referring to it as a "marriage contract" back then. I'm cool with not using the m-word if you're a merchant, but what term would merchants use instead? And after the wedding, would it be correct to say "Here's my wife, Bitsy Kadius", or are "husband/wife" also terms only used by nobles?

Good place to come up with something or just simplify it and say it's a marriage contract, too.  I'll bring that up in the staff discussion.

[flurry]

It seems like there's a contradiction in the help file, on this point about merchant houses.

Only nobles and merchant houses use the formal term marriage for their contractual relationships.

Merchant houses also form formalized unions for much the same reasons as the nobility. The contracts are often identical to a marriage contract and they are also registered with the city state. The main difference is that because the parties involved are not noble, the union is not called a marriage.

The first sentence suggests merchant houses do use the term marriage, and then in the following paragraph it says they don't.

[Nyr]

It seems like there's a contradiction in the help file, on this point about merchant houses.

Only nobles and merchant houses use the formal term marriage for their contractual relationships.

Merchant houses also form formalized unions for much the same reasons as the nobility. The contracts are often identical to a marriage contract and they are also registered with the city state. The main difference is that because the parties involved are not noble, the union is not called a marriage.

The first sentence suggests merchant houses do use the term marriage, and then in the following paragraph it says they don't.

There was a contradiction before we changed anything in the old helpfile.  We'll go over this.

[Pale Horse]

Why not just call it a "Contract."  It's an agreement written down.  Zalanthan culture does not seem to put as much value onto love as an important quality in a marriage or mating (as was/is the practice in many cultures in reality).  I am not sure if they would feel that a specific word would be needed to signify a contracted mating.