Server Time

[Marauder Moe]

Sorry people, but I really don't think this "server time" thing is working out.

Time and time again I see people go:

RPT at RPT o'clock, server time!

and inevitably

What's server time?

It's EST

And then if we're lucky we get into a discussion about time zones and daylight savings.

Making up a new name for EST/EDT doesn't make it any easier for people to translate time zones.

[BadSkeelz]

Those people are usually newbies. They will learn.

[Maso]

Lol. It really does help. It helps me out a shitload. It doesn't matter whether it's EST or EDT or GMT or ACDT. It's whatever it says on the home page and that makes life easier.

I can't see how it harms anyone and if new players ask...It's hardly complicated to explain it. It's a notion that somehow works for major gaming communities and online games that have millions of players.

[Patuk]

Point said person at the time the website shows. Problem solved.

If this is what we call complicated, well.. So's tying your shoelaces.

[Maso]

Maybe it could be more prominent on the web page. It is kind of a bit...Tuluki.

[Drayab]

I like it because it saves me the trouble of separating what somebody typed from what they actually mean. And yeah, I'd like it if the time was placed more prominently, too. Like, right below the current IG time and date.

[Delirium]

Lol. It really does help. It helps me out a shitload.

Yep.

[Riya OniSenshi]

If the rpt post contains a time zone (assuming it's the correct one accounting for daylight savings) then it's fair easy to figure out what time it is for you unless you are so completely lazy as to not know where in the world you live.

"Sever Time" is just another way to say EST/EDT.

I'm pretty sure this was brought up before when they first added that to the webpage.

It doesn't really help or change the situation from what it was as people who couldn't/wouldn't bother themselves to convert the time before still won't no matter what you call it.

[bcw81]

I wish we would all just use GMT and get over it.

Seriously.

That's what GMT was made for.

There's a specific time, and if you are off of the area where it's that time, you're GMT -#.

So take the Pacific coast (where I'm from). We're GMT -8. The East coast is GMT -5.

[Refugee]

I've seen arguments on game boards about GMT too. 

Server time is best and it's easy to point someone at the website.  It would be great if it was more prominent.  It would make no difference if Server time was Eastern or GMT or some other zone, just having that source to refer people to is great.

[Drayab]

I do like the idea of GMT, simply because some people will already be familiar with it, or they can google it to find out, while server time is Armageddon specific, thus new players have to ask.

One possible downside to GMT is that it does not change with the seasons, while most of our players live in daylight savings observing regions (or the local equivalent). It might be disorienting to some when their clocks change but the one on the homepage does not. The server is currently set to EST/EDT, depending on the time of year, which means that the time difference for people in observing regions is more or less fixed. When the server time changes, your local time changes at the same time (or at least pretty close to it). This is good for lazy people.

All staff would have to do is set the time shown on the webpage to GMT, but I would prefer how things are currently.

[Marauder Moe]

Why would it not actually be best to just say "EST"/"EDT" time and skip the step of making people look at the website and/or ask what "server time" means?

Note: the webside doesn't actually define server time, it just gives the current clock value.

[Maso]

Man I lived in England for 25 years and I ALWAYS used GMT on here. That is...I had no fricking clue when it was Daylight Savings Time in the UK (even though I was in it). So everything was "x to x GMT, or...daylight...or whatever, I dunno. You Americans can figure it out."

Server time has rescued my blonde ass (I'm not even blonde ). If we stop using it, I'll drown in confusion.

[Marauder Moe]

I mean, if we still want to adopt a guideline that says "Please post RPTs in US Eastern time", that's fine with me.  Just skip the confusing alias in favor of the actual term, which people already know.

[Maso]

Why would it not actually be best to just say "EST"/"EDT" time and skip the step of making people look at the website and/or ask what "server time" means?

Note: the webside doesn't actually define server time, it just gives the current clock value.

1. Because then people would have to figure out their time in relation to EST and EDT and people who live nowhere near the East coast would need to know which phase the East coast was in.

2. Server time doesn't need to be defined. It is what it is. IT'S THE SERVER TIME. You just figure how you relate to it, and everythings gravy.

I really don't get why this is an issue for people. What harm does it do you?

[Hitsuchi]

I don't mind seeing Server Time used as it is right now - it's not that hard to figure out when things happen. And apparently most of our players are playing in the US: it's a lot easier shifting times by one or two hours instead of 5-6 hours for every RPT. That's what European and Asian/Oceanian players get to do - and we can't join in on nearly as many of them. I agree that the server time should be more prominent on the webpage (though I disagree with "right below the IG time" - since right now it doesn't show on the mobile interface).

It also gets much easier when you use online time converters to get that visual representation of how late you're actually going to have to stay up. Or how early you're forcing your fellow players to log in, for that matter...

Idea: Is it possible to add, after the current server time, "and you are X hours ahead/behind it"? This would make it easier for when you don't think about those two weeks every spring and fall when Europe is one hour closer to East Coast US.

Why would it not actually be best to just say "EST"/"EDT" time and skip the step of making people look at the website and/or ask what "server time" means?

Note: the webside doesn't actually define server time, it just gives the current clock value.

This, too. I've noticed quite a few people are using EST when they mean EDT, so..."RPT at X PM, Server Time (EDT)" seems like the least confusing way of saying it.

[Marauder Moe]

Why would it not actually be best to just say "EST"/"EDT" time and skip the step of making people look at the website and/or ask what "server time" means?

Note: the webside doesn't actually define server time, it just gives the current clock value.

1. Because then people would have to figure out their time in relation to EST and EDT and people who live nowhere near the East coast would need to know which phase the East coast was in.

But people still have to figure out their relation to EST and EDT because that's what server time is.

2. Server time doesn't need to be defined. It is what it is. IT'S THE SERVER TIME. You just figure how you relate to it, and everythings gravy.

Wat?  That's not how time works. All time zones are defined in relation to GMT, with some having adjustments for daylight savings seasons.  Server time is no exception.

I really don't get why this is an issue for people. What harm does it do you?

I'm looking out for the newbies and all my other Armageddon friends who get mixed up when someone posts an RPT and only lists "server time".  A problem doesn't have to affect me personally before I'm willing to speak up about it.  (I'm also an engineer.  Solving problems is what I do.)



What we really need is some kind of SMF (the forum system that the GDB runs on) tag that translates times to the viewer's timezone set in their account.  Sadly, I don't think anyone has written such a module.

[Barzalene]

I never know when it's st or dt

[Drayab]

I mean, if we still want to adopt a guideline that says "Please post RPTs in US Eastern time", that's fine with me.  Just skip the confusing alias in favor of the actual term, which people already know.

It more than just an alias. By using it, we can bypass the discussion of geography and daylight savings stuff.

Your suggestion of adopting a more familiar guideline highlights this very point.

Person 1: "Please post RPTs in US Eastern time"

Person 2: "EDT or EST?"

Person 1: "EST"

Person 2: "Year round? Or do you mean that we use EDT when daylights savings is in effect?"

Person 1: "What?"

Person 3: "I live in Arizona, so I'm laughing at both of you."

Person 4: "Just look at the damn website..."

[Marauder Moe]

You do realize that Server Time is affected by daylight savings too, right?

[Maso]

Yeah, but it's just whatever it says on the front page. We don't have to -know-. Krath. Everyone is saying how much easier it is for them. How can you argue that? Because one new player asked if it was GMT? Which frankly I thought was a joke (like....this RPT is happening at a time that's good for me, right?)

What Drayab said is spot on. All you gotta do is check the home page and you can see how many hours you are away from the impending RPT...without having to figure shit out.

[Drayab]

You do realize that Server Time is affected by daylight savings too, right?

Yeah, that was my argument against GMT.

[Patuk]

You really are making this a lot more complicated than it has to be. Stop it already.

[manipura]

 
Every time this issue comes up on the GDB I can't help but wonder why time zones are so difficult for people to figure out.

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah, but it's just whatever it says on the front page. We don't have to -know-. Krath. Everyone is saying how much easier it is for them. How can you argue that? Because one new player asked if it was GMT? Which frankly I thought was a joke (like....this RPT is happening at a time that's good for me, right?)

You and Drayab don't count as "everyone".

What Drayab said is spot on. All you gotta do is check the home page and you can see how many hours you are away from the impending RPT...without having to figure shit out.

How would it be any different if we abandoned the term "server time"?  You could still go to the webpage and look at the clock.

[Maso]

We're not the only people who have posted on the thread.

If you abandon the phrase 'Server time' you are then back to having to switch between EST and EDT.

[Hitsuchi]

While we're at it, here's a completely unambiguous way of scheduling the coming RPTs that started this thread:

Late Morning on Barani, the 186th day of the Descending Sun in the year of Silt's Peace, year 9 of the 22nd Age.
Late Morning on Cingel, the 202nd day of the Descending Sun in the year of Silt's Peace, year 9 of the 22nd Age.

This is a joke. Please, do not ever use this as a means of communication. Why did I put it here? Because though it can only mean one time, it's hard to use. I think we're suffering from a lack of information, not from having the wrong information. And we're making too much of an issue out of it.

[Marauder Moe]

We're not the only people who have posted on the thread.

If you abandon the phrase 'Server time' you are then back to having to switch between EST and EDT.

You could just say "Eastern US", and everyone, including newbies, will understand that it essentially means the time for New York.  That's what the TV networks usually do.

[Maso]

That's what TV Networks do in America. That's not a concept that is particularly familiar for the rest of the world.

It took me like 6 months to figure out the shows weren't on when I was expecting them to be on. Especially since they give a time for Eastern and Central. What about West mofos?

[Marauder Moe]

The rest of the world has to figure out when server time is off by an hour just the same they'd have to figure out Eastern time.

West Coast US always knows they're 3 hours behind Eastern.

[Riya OniSenshi]

Eastern/EST/EDT and "Server Time" are exactly the same thing.

There's no real reason why someone can't be expected to remember that and what the difference in their time zone and the server is.

Hell, in Windows 7/8 you can even make multiple clocks that display along with your system clock when you mouseover it, so it would be even easier to aid in the time translation.

If this was really such a problem, I'm having a hard time believing that the mud lasted in excess of 20 years.

[Drayab]

Eastern/EST/EDT and "Server Time" are exactly the same thing.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong.

Eastern, EDT, and server time mean the same thing right now, but they won't this winter.

EDT and EST never mean the same thing. EDT is UTC-4, EST is UTC-5.

[Riya OniSenshi]

Eastern/EST/EDT and "Server Time" are exactly the same thing.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong.

Eastern, EDT, and server time mean the same thing right now, but they won't this winter.

EDT and EST never mean the same thing. EDT is UTC-4, EST is UTC-5.

In the context of relating the time compared to the Eastern Time Zone of the US, where the server is located, they are all interchangeable - EST/EDT when applicable. However, even when daylight savings is in effect, the majority of people know that EST is going to mean the Eastern time zone of the US.

"Eastern/EST/EDT" was meant to be a list in my post - meaning that which ever one is picked it going to be the same (or meant to be the same by the poster as so frequently happens)  as "Server Time".

Or are you suggesting some people use EST during EDT and actually mean to use the -5 rather than -4 UTC?

[Drayab]

In the context of relating the time compared to the Eastern Time Zone of the US, where the server is located, they are all interchangeable - EST/EDT when applicable. However, even when daylight savings is in effect, the majority of people know that EST is going to mean the Eastern time zone of the US.

"Eastern/EST/EDT" was meant to be a list in my post - meaning that which ever one is picked it going to be the same (or meant to be the same by the poster as so frequently happens)  as "Server Time".

Or are you suggesting some people use EST during EDT and actually mean to use the -5 rather than -4 UTC?

Yeah, I know that some players use EST and EDT interchangeably, but it's ambiguous at best, because those terms have specific meanings. Saying Eastern US time would be better because it implicitly leaves the daylight savings puzzle to be solved by the reader. This interpreting what the poster meant instead of what they actually typed is the very reason we should be using server time. That is, when somebody posts an RPT time in EST during summer, I realize they really mean the time on the website clock - EDT. Isn't it just easier and clearer to point directly at the website clock by saying server time?

[Morgenes]

FWIW, I have tried to make the Server Time a little more prominent on the page, and have included the user's time so you can see the comparison.

[Riya OniSenshi]

In the context of relating the time compared to the Eastern Time Zone of the US, where the server is located, they are all interchangeable - EST/EDT when applicable. However, even when daylight savings is in effect, the majority of people know that EST is going to mean the Eastern time zone of the US.

"Eastern/EST/EDT" was meant to be a list in my post - meaning that which ever one is picked it going to be the same (or meant to be the same by the poster as so frequently happens)  as "Server Time".

Or are you suggesting some people use EST during EDT and actually mean to use the -5 rather than -4 UTC?

Yeah, I know that some players use EST and EDT interchangeably, but it's ambiguous at best, because those terms have specific meanings. Saying Eastern US time would be better because it implicitly leaves the daylight savings puzzle to be solved by the reader. This interpreting what the poster meant instead of what they actually typed is the very reason we should be using server time. That is, when somebody posts an RPT time in EST during summer, I realize they really mean the time on the website clock - EDT. Isn't it just easier and clearer to point directly at the website clock by saying server time?

That's what we keep saying - Calling it "Server Time" instead of "Eastern", "EST", or "EDT" (whichever being applicable), or using another, valid time zone results in exactly the same situation: the person needs to find out the difference between where they are and where the server is in relation to the time posted.

Calling it "Server Time" changes nothing, though having the server clock is better than not having one as it can be useful in aiding the time translation, and a thank you to staff for that and their work on its visibility on the new website.

[Hitsuchi]

FWIW, I have tried to make the Server Time a little more prominent on the page, and have included the user's time so you can see the comparison.

Thanks, no more searching for it now! 

[Drayab]

I think I'm ready to agree to disagree at this point.

If you'd rather live in a microcosm where EST and EDT mean the same thing, unlike anywhere else I am aware of, and are simultaneously meant to be an alias for 'go look at the website,' as opposed to one where we we introduce a new phrase 'server time' which has no confusing connection to the outside world and also means 'go look at the website,' then be my guest.

But the next time somebody posts an RPT in EST, I am asking them if they live in Ecuador.  

[Nyr]

rpt is at x server time

"oh but I don't know what I am in relation to x"

ok so look at your clock
then go to the homepage

use math

done

[Kismetic]

but nyr i want to est/edt man why you make it so easy for us, I MUST HAVE SOMETHING TO DO

[Barzalene]

FWIW, I have tried to make the Server Time a little more prominent on the page, and have included the user's time so you can see the comparison.

That is awesome.

[Drayab]

Wow, adding the local time was a nice touch. Now I don't even have to shift my eyes 20 degrees to see my computer clock!

[Molten Heart]

I prefer to use Zalanthas time, thank you very much.

[manipura]

Every time this issue comes up on the GDB I can't help but wonder why time zones are so difficult for people to figure out.

rpt is at x server time

"oh but I don't know what I am in relation to x"

ok so look at your clock
then go to the homepage

use math

done

Ohh, I see now. 
It's the math part that folks have trouble with...

[FreeRangeVestric]

I prefer to use Zalanthas time, thank you very much.

Non-arm playing friend: "Hey dude, what time is it?"

Molten Heart: "It is currently early morning on Huegel, the 814th day of the Descending Sun, in the year of Silt's Peace, Year 9 of the 22nd Age."

Non-arm playing friend: "... "

[RogueGunslinger]

What a silly thread

[Barsook]

What a silly thread

[Fredd]

rpt is at x server time

"oh but I don't know what I am in relation to x"

ok so look at your clock
then go to the homepage

use math

done

it's a great addition, but...Kind of an eye sore?

[Barsook]

Maybe someone can write a app for this?

[Cutthroat]

I think server time is very easy to use. IMO, the point isn't really to make RPT times easier to determine for people in other timezones - that is already easy with basic arithmetic. The point of server time is to standardize RPT announcements and phase out the use of a bunch of different timezones to describe different RPTs.

Perhaps server time can be added to the output of the IG command "time" to make it easier for people reading IG board posts about an RPT or discussing playtimes with the OOC command. But I don't see an urgent need for change.

[Barsook]

Perhaps server time can be added to the output of the IG command "time" to make it easier for people reading IG board posts about an RPT or discussing playtimes with the OOC command. But I don't see an urgent need for change.

Why did I not think of that?  I dig that idea.

[Maso]

This might sound super dorky....But the output for the current time command is very much IC...and having server time on it could breaks peoples immersion....they might not wanna know what time it is in the real world. 

Maybe a separate command though?

[Barsook]

Yeah, good point.

[Fujikoma]

Maybe even... A way to put it in your prompt?

[Patuk]

No, no.. Real pro's play without prompts. They break immersion after all. You can't reduce health or how tired you are to a fixed number, you have to RP it properly instead.

[Fujikoma]

Us power-gaming twinks have a different concept of what makes a pro. 

Humor aside, I have been tempted a few times to turn prompt off, but then I realize all the inevitable disasters that await me.

[Khommie]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind this if there was a function in-game that could easily tell you the server time without needing to check the website.