On Mul magickers and selective breeding ability.

[Nyr]

Possible != automatically approved though.  You'd need 6 karma to even app for it.

[Harmless]

I just thought that as the breeding happened a magicker or templar would look at the preggo mom and see if the baby inside has potential. If so, infanticide/abortion. This might be applicable to other races, sure. Not really a "cure" for magickers though.

But I agree with Moe.

[catchall]

They are possible through special application, yes.

I really wish this was a hard prohibition.  Mul magickers are the most impossibly munchkiny PC types imaginable.  This suggests a player who's not happy with the crazy levels of power possible with their existing high karma options and insists on spec-apping a mul that not only was a sufficiently special snowflake as to slip through the magicker screening process, but probably also escaped slavery and was forgotten by their pursuers long ago in Convenient Background World.  The snowflakeism inherent in even apping a mul magicker is, IMO, a terrific warning sign that the player shouldn't have one.  It says not only "I insist on playing the exception" but also "I deserve to play the exception in a way that minmaxes away even the minimal checks on PC power that exist."

Sounds like a great griefing PC, though.

[Marauder Moe]

I find the above post to be rather obnoxious.

[Harmless]

I find the above post to be rather obnoxious.

It's also a derail. The topic is the IC justification for the ban. Stay on topic, everybody. Complaints about what kinds of PCs are too "powerful" don't belong here.

[MeTekillot]

I was under the impression that they test newborn muls for magician potential the same ways they test possible 'gickers. If it comes back positive, they gut the baby and try again?

[Twilight]

They are possible through special application, yes.

I really wish this was a hard prohibition.  Mul magickers are the most impossibly munchkiny PC types imaginable.  This suggests a player who's not happy with the crazy levels of power possible with their existing high karma options and insists on spec-apping a mul that not only was a sufficiently special snowflake as to slip through the magicker screening process, but probably also escaped slavery and was forgotten by their pursuers long ago in Convenient Background World.  The snowflakeism inherent in even apping a mul magicker is, IMO, a terrific warning sign that the player shouldn't have one.  It says not only "I insist on playing the exception" but also "I deserve to play the exception in a way that minmaxes away even the minimal checks on PC power that exist."

Sounds like a great griefing PC, though.

Wow.  I'd think just the opposite, that those players would use the uniqueness of the role to draw other players in to create plots.  Before the ban, I special app'd a mul magicker.  As per what was requested in the special app, the current noble of the House the mul had escaped from was informed.  The circumstances that the mul would return to captivity were laid out in the app as well.  The noble and his minions even got the mul back into the city.  Unfortunately, certain outside events happened, and the mul had to escape, again.  Even after that, the noble was involved, as well as the templarate.  IMO, all mul apps, if recently escaped in the background, should have that knowledge passed on to the current PC noble, if they exist.

It sounds like that potential isn't gone completely, which is kind of cool.  I see the need for the restriction, as there was a rash of mul magickers at one point.

More on topic, didn't even know the North could breed muls again.  Not sure how both mul breeding Houses would breed magick out of muls, at the same time, given the likelihood of them sharing the knowledge of how to do it in the spirit of friendship and all.

[gfair]

ICly, most people would have no idea how this is accomplished.  It could be as simple as propaganda that isn't true--they just squelch rumors to the contrary and kill all aberrations.  It could be a very complicated procedure involving eugenics and magick.  It could be so prohibitively difficult to do that it really is only viable in cases where the profitability of the end transaction (the sale of a mul) outweighs the difficulty and cost of doing whatever it is that is done.

Thank you for addressing (and correcting) my assumptions and proposal Nyr. I think your response here does a great job at adding some meat to the IC element, which is more than satisfactory.

Side note: perhaps the elf on Trademan's Street can now sell "the cure" in a bottle, in addition to maps to Steinal.

Second side note: Perhaps my own living, breathing, greedy-ass PC can sell the cure in a bottle.

[BleakOne]

ICly, most people would have no idea how this is accomplished.  It could be as simple as propaganda that isn't true--they just squelch rumors to the contrary and kill all aberrations.  It could be a very complicated procedure involving eugenics and magick.  It could be so prohibitively difficult to do that it really is only viable in cases where the profitability of the end transaction (the sale of a mul) outweighs the difficulty and cost of doing whatever it is that is done.

Thank you for addressing (and correcting) my assumptions and proposal Nyr. I think the post above does a great job at adding some meat to the IC element, which is more than satisfactory.

Side note: perhaps the elf on Trademan's Street can now sell "the cure" in a bottle, in addition to maps to Steinal.

*cough*
Sand tonic
*cough*

[Dalmeth]

I really wish this was a hard prohibition.  Mul magickers are the most impossibly munchkiny PC types imaginable.  This suggests a player who's not happy with the crazy levels of power possible with their existing high karma options and insists on spec-apping a mul that not only was a sufficiently special snowflake as to slip through the magicker screening process, but probably also escaped slavery and was forgotten by their pursuers long ago in Convenient Background World.  The snowflakeism inherent in even apping a mul magicker is, IMO, a terrific warning sign that the player shouldn't have one.  It says not only "I insist on playing the exception" but also "I deserve to play the exception in a way that minmaxes away even the minimal checks on PC power that exist."

If you're going to put down special apped muls, then you might as well put down the entire special app process.  The entire point is you're supposed to impress whatever staffer is checking the application, so shenanigans are a given rather than the exception.

As for breeding out magick, it's stated clearly in the docs that no one really knows what causes magick.  So any campaign to rid magick from the breeding stock has no basis to stand on.

It'd be a really good project for a noble to take on, where they run "experiments," to see whether they can test for the magickal trait in their slave populations, but that's about the limit.

[Erythil]

I think this can easily be handwaved with one sentence: "It's really, really, really expensive."

Also -- can't think of a single real-world society that ever managed to totally control breeding even in a slave class.  Look at what happened in America -- white masters raping their black slaves left and right despite that supposedly being abominable.

[Sephiroto]

Seeing as how anyone can technically learn sorcery, this means that mul sorcerers can be special apped and approved too, right?  I say this as 50% joke and 50% curious because as ridiculous as it sounds, I'm interested on whether or not it would be seriously considered by staff.  A mul sorcerer would be just plain unfair in many ways, but if it were possible then why not try to play one once, right?

[bcw81]

Seeing as how anyone can technically learn sorcery, this means that mul sorcerers can be special apped and approved too, right?  I say this as 50% joke and 50% curious because as ridiculous as it sounds, I'm interested on whether or not it would be seriously considered by staff.  A mul sorcerer would be just plain unfair in many ways, but if it were possible then why not try to play one once, right?

Since the rule of thumb for spec apps is 3 over your current karma, and muls are already 7 karma, I doubt it would be considered for very long... Though I also imagine it would be just as possible as an elf sorcerer in the general setting.

[gfair]

I think this can easily be handwaved with one sentence: "It's really, really, really expensive."

Also -- can't think of a single real-world society that ever managed to totally control breeding even in a slave class.

I think the issue has been sufficiently addressed, but "hand waiving" has negative connotations to it.  It was debated, respected, and I'm comfy with the added clarity provided.

The process is expensive - but price doesn't stop it from spreading, which is what I argued would happen. The price being high limits the population, but that population still includes every Noble family, possibly some of the Templarate, and potentially rich aides and merchants.  These are all people for whom status and image are almost everything; a magicker in the family would be the equivalent of a social death sentence. They would do everything to provide trust and reassurance and safety, to ensure that their merchant or noble interests are the sole focus.

[Molten Heart]

I think mul elementalist gladiators fighting in the arena would be pretty spectacular.

[Twilight]

Seen it 1 time, about 1999.  Sadly, Sparky put on a poor showing.  Perhaps that is why I have never seen another?

Or perhaps it was retcon'd, along with the one gemmed human krathi Nakki soldier that existed around then, for a very short period.