What almost turned you off the game WHEN YOU WERE NEW

[Is Friday]

3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.

You know what?

This complaint is spot on.  Clearly marked or not, there's no reason there should be any situations in game where a single keystroke can bring you semi-certain character death that any half way cognizant real person could avoid.  (Of course in situations of sandstorm blindness, poor wagon piloting skills, mount panic, fleeing, etc a chance to go over the edge is more reasonable.)

I'd be cool with something like "n !", "n jump", "n climb" as the only way to willingly walk off a cliff.

I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.

[RogueGunslinger]

I too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there. And had a friend die in high-school, from falling off of a cliff.

[Fujikoma]

If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.

I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.

Don't know what clans you play for, but most of them don't seem to pay for shit or supply shit unless they're feeling generous. Is a reason there's a whole 'nother thread bitching about independents having too much shit...

Working on your own gives you a bit of backstory, and some contacts, I hear your words but they don't mesh well with my personal experience, maybe my experiences are based around new plot developments. Maybe you only play humans, dwarves or half-giants, but I'm not equipped to judge. I do know a number of the newbie accessible clans will pay somewhat to equip a half-giant just because of how useful they are, and even waive their fee.

Maybe you're so socially adept that people just throw bits of armor and weaponry at you, and if that's the case, I salute you, however, you must understand that under those circumstances you are exceptional. That shit you can get in the hall is mildly useful, and can keep you alive a while, but it's not good shit, and it's heavy. Being clanned is essential in my book, too many advantages there to count, but few will just throw freebies your way and you will need money.

Our experiences may differ, I just got started playing and have experienced numerous deaths of characters with good stats, and have started to look at ways to minimize my losses. Gith armor isn't so bad once you get it fixed up, but too heavy. Nothing wrong with getting clanned just be ready to get your gear yourself, is all I'm saying. Get geared up and fucking live through some sparring matches, that in itself can be a challenge, depending on what you're playing and who you end up sparring while no one is around. If you haven't had any trouble, try OOC rping a newb sometime. Won't always happen but good to be prepared for everything.

[Fujikoma]

Also, there's nothing wrong with having an incentive to learn the market, and having a little extra coin, the beasts in the stable don't poop often enough to keep the new shitcloaks garbed in good gear, and they'll likely die with it anyway, which means someone else will get to wear it if it is recovered. I see no problem with gathering up what you think you might need to survive before being thrown into the maw of some terrible beast. At least you'll die knowing you did your best.

[Fujikoma]

3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.

You know what?

This complaint is spot on.  Clearly marked or not, there's no reason there should be any situations in game where a single keystroke can bring you semi-certain character death that any half way cognizant real person could avoid.  (Of course in situations of sandstorm blindness, poor wagon piloting skills, mount panic, fleeing, etc a chance to go over the edge is more reasonable.)

I'd be cool with something like "n !", "n jump", "n climb" as the only way to willingly walk off a cliff.

I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.

Oh god I've had some terrible falls IRL because Sergeant said to go that way, one doesn't argue... Despite the evident tumble... But we all ended up laughing about it in the end, as we watched others fall. Suppose there could have been a broken neck or two but, sheesh, infantry doesn't seem to accept that kind of shit can happen. Oddly, despite all the possibilities I never saw it happen, and I'm thankful for that.

Sliding and crawling down wet and muddy hillsides in Hawaii, good times, even with the ass-bone shattering rocks encountered along the way. Grab them fucking roots! Oh shit, snap, fall! *splat* I'm ok, just give me a minute to breathe...

[Quell]

Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.

Why is that? I've always figured ICly that's what the majority of people do, NPC and PC.

[Fujikoma]

... Then what's the problem? That large had to come from somewhere.

EDIT: It's not like your parents bribed you a large to leave home when everyone in the known has trouble putting food on the table. Grebber background is the only one that makes sense to me.

[Wastrel]

If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.

I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.

The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.

[Is Friday]

Off the top of my head I can think of 5 clans that will supply you with armor/weapons dependent on leadership generosity/merit. Find out IC.

[FantasyWriter]

Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.

I disagree. Working on your own gives you experience and skill that makes you more attractive to potential bosses.  My leader PCs have very seldom hired employees who did not prove that there were competent enough to handle small tasks and show enough loyalty and a give-a-damn to stick around for a while and prove that they would be worth my PCs time and coin to train and supply. This trial time would normally include food, water, and hang out time with my other employees without clan access, salary pay, and taking up a spot on the roster.  Hiring folks right off the street ICly sounds like a good way to get robbed or ganked.

[/my opinion]

[lordcooper]

If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.

I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.

The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.

Ever asked?

[Zoltan]

I wouldn't advise brand new players to head out of the gates straight from chargen to make 'sids and get their skills up, as it would probably lead to a quick death. But it's a totally valid thing to do, of course. That said, I think every clannie PC I've ever run basically went straight to their clan from the get-go. Gear is nice, but without interaction boredom comes tumbling in. Having a crafting subguild is probably not a bad idea, though I think the only thing I've ever really crafted in this game were arrows.

There are other occupations, particularly in the city states, that could explain your starting 'sid that don't necessarily entail grebbing. Yeah, they kind of fall apart once they make contact with the coded reality of the world, but whatever. Use the power of make-believe.

From a hiring stand point, it really depends on the clan and what you're hiring people to do. My leader characters have run the gamut of "hire anyone who can walk" to only wanting those with expertise or at least demonstrated competence. This being Arm, I've found that either category of characters is as likely to rip you off as become super loyal minions. 

[Barzalene]

Wrong thread!!!!

[eltanimras]

I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.

I too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there.

There's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game than your character paying for your own OOC typo or mistake.

Actually, I just made this post for that joke. Sorry?

I suspect that either there's a nontrivial difference in the way we've visualized the game world -- and, to be fair, I haven't played in ages, and never seriously -- or else we're arguing statistics. I mean, I'm from Hawaii. A few people die every year, and more fall but survive. Most of them were [purposely] a whole lot closer to the edge than I've typically imagined my PCs getting. They fall from ridgelines; they slip on narrow (and often muddy & overgrown) trails. If RL cliffs were half as dangerous as the Zalanthan variety, we wouldn't have a tourist industry, and I wouldn't be here typing now. But the size of outdoor rooms has always been ambiguous, and I'm reasonably content with the option of bugging confusing descriptions.

"Nobody type 'e'!": http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg

Enough silliness from me. Back to the employment discussion!

[BuNutzCola]

There's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game  I mean, I'm from Hawaii.

Where at? Moving back next year /derail

[eltanimras]

Big Island. That's MacKenzie State Park in the pic. Job market's wretched, though.

[Wastrel]

@cooper yes

"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>

Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.

[Patuk]

@cooper yes

"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>

Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.

Runners are redshirts. It's the way it is.

[FantasyWriter]

The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.

Sure they do. All you have to do is scavenge around the base of the shield wall or in spider territory to pick it up.

*ba-da-ching*

[RogueGunslinger]

I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.

I too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there.

There's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game than your character paying for your own OOC typo or mistake.

Actually, I just made this post for that joke. Sorry?

I suspect that either there's a nontrivial difference in the way we've visualized the game world -- and, to be fair, I haven't played in ages, and never seriously -- or else we're arguing statistics. I mean, I'm from Hawaii. A few people die every year, and more fall but survive. Most of them were [purposely] a whole lot closer to the edge than I've typically imagined my PCs getting. They fall from ridgelines; they slip on narrow (and often muddy & overgrown) trails. If RL cliffs were half as dangerous as the Zalanthan variety, we wouldn't have a tourist industry, and I wouldn't be here typing now. But the size of outdoor rooms has always been ambiguous, and I'm reasonably content with the option of bugging confusing descriptions.

"Nobody type 'e'!": http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg

Enough silliness from me. Back to the employment discussion!

You caught me! I still stand by both statements though. Falling is common enough that it's not hard to play if off ICly. That doesn't mean I'm not frustrated and pissed off that I have to do it. Again. But nearly all falls in game I can think of either have a warning, or actually do the "Are you sure you want to jump off this cliff to your death.?" Thing. Bugging the ones that don't is a good idea.

[spicemustflow]

@cooper yes

"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>

Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.

It depends on your sarge. I remember being given some ok-for-a-noob gear but was told it was property of the Byn, just as my ass will be if I lost or sold it.

[Fujikoma]

*you have no idea the horror I am planning just for you.*

[MeTekillot]

What

[Fujikoma]

What

Yes, just you, may take me a while to find you but I'll fuckin' do it. Just you wait... May take me a few years, please be patient. I have time...

Actually a bit drunk, sorry for the death threats MeTekillot... But I still fully intend to get you if I am able. And even then, I won't do a damned thing. Leave you guessing the whole time and even then I won't be that guy because I can't. I feel so inadequate.

[MeTekillot]

You shouldn't drink so much