Slaves in Zalanthas

[Morrolan]

Most slavery that we see in Zalanthas is of the sort run by two noble houses in major population centers. This kind of slavery is (socially) of a very specific kind: slaves are property, and in many ways are considered outside of the social strata because they are not legally people.

This is not surprising, as it is the type of slavery seen is most Western fiction. [Yes, I know, Armageddon is a form of Western fiction.]

However, if we look around the world, we can find another kind of slave: People who are on the lowest rung of the social ladder, and who are limited in their movements, "owned" by a particular family, but otherwise have a fair amount of freedom. Often captives of war or raids, these slaves are doomed never to gain social status and both they and their children will always be considered outsiders.

One would expect slavery of this type to show up on Zalanthas. Especially with the high death rate that seems to be the order of the day, bringing in low-status people who can perform (particularly dangerous)  labor would relieve one of the production bottlenecks.

Such a role, while in many ways slavery, might be a more playable kind of slavery. It wouldn't be to much more restrictive than many lifesworn positions. Moreover, such slavery would probably actually pretty common in Zalanthas. Need (relatively) reliable labor? You can always steal some kids from your dune-neighbors! It's much cheaper than raising your own servants from scratch, doesn't require the approval of a Noble House (if you don't tell them or throw it in their face), and gives an opportunity for further development of social strata.

Yes, there is the argument that "Zalanthas is harsh." But, honestly, it isn't that harsh. Most groups, most days, get roughly enough water and food for minimal survival. Some get less and don't do so well. But sometimes we act like every place in Zalanthas is as harsh as the 'Rinth, and that isn't really true.

A broadening of the concept of "slavery" in Zalanthas could help create roles that are "slave" roles without making them unplayable. They might not fly in the city. Tribes might want to use a different word for it, "sworn follower" or "selaluya" or whatever. "Member of a lineage sworn to protect and defend my own" is actually a form of slave, but it isn't the abject, will-less figure from literature. They are people, and therefore much more playable.

[Marauder Moe]

I can't really agree with your assessment of Zalanthan slavery.  Only the virtual slaves are of the "western" type that know only chains and labor.  PC slaves usually WERE of the more autonomous sort you describe.

[Morrolan]

I can't really agree with your assessment of Zalanthan slavery.  Only the virtual slaves are of the "western" type that know only chains and labor.  PC slaves usually WERE of the more autonomous sort you describe.

They were not. More autonomous than the dudes in chains? Yes. But still much less free than the model I suggested. You might want to look up the reasons that slave PCs were removed (hey, I can't leave the compound without permission! I'm bored! I'm suicided or stored!).

EDIT: Modified for to remove excessive cattiness.

[Marauder Moe]

No need to be snarky.  I'm willing to have a discussion.

It's possible we knew/played different slaves.  I only interacted with two (EDIT: three, but the 3rd gained autonomy and even freedom later) that were on any real sort of leash (one I played, and in theory could have been granted more trust later).  The rest all seemed to be alowed to wander about of their own accord and even carry weapons.

[Morrolan]

The slaves that most PCs saw were the ones that were allowed a certain level of autonomy. Generally we didn't see the ones trapped on estates, etc. The discussion surrounding the end of these roles implied that such slaves were in fact much more common.

So, yeah, what I'm suggesting is that we work to develop a type of "slave" role that fits with the ones who are seen in public, maybe carry weapons (depending on role), etc. These may have existed in the past, but from what staff said at the time they were not the norm. The norm had much less autonomy and were problematic for that reason.

Edit for tense, plus to add this: Slave roles would need to be karma roles.

[Marauder Moe]

Regardless of the frequency, we had those kinds of roles but they were taken away anyway.

Also, do you have links for all the things the staff said about removing slave roles?

[Morrolan]

Yep.

[ShaLeah]

I wasn't gonna put my 2 sids in... now I can't help it.

You might want to look up the reasons that slave PCs were removed (hey, I can't leave the compound without permission! I'm bored! I'm suicided or stored!).

I <insert foul language> hate that any of that had anything to do with the decision to remove slaves, especially when we see HOW MANY sponsored roles log in three four times and never, ever be seen again? People should not apply for roles they are not aware of the in character AND out of character responsibilities, positives and negatives. Slaves are one of the mentalities that differ in game from real world and yet we don't really see one who isn't escaped (which are the minority of slaves).  High turn over shouldn't be the reason we don't have slaves anymore. If that was a reason, we shouldn't have any GMH family members. Ever.

Slave roles would need to be karma roles.

Agreed.  I think Slave roles should only be playable by a player who has proven trustworthy, who know their place, who is NOT going to be playing an escaped slave or a personal slave but a House slave, used by all the people of that house.  Personal slaves should be purchased as NPCs and orderable by their purchaser, so that they act like they're supposed to, THEIR slave, catering to THEIR needs and wants.

I really would like the slave roles to be reconsidered for opening. Even if you just limit the amount you can have per slaving house, even if you can just log into that gladiator you have once in a while so that your House can parade you.

[Marauder Moe]

Yep.

Thanks, though I'm not seeing much talk about which sort of slaves were played.

I actually think slaves roles are cool.  As I mentioned, I played one and was enjoying it (though it was tragically brief). 

I guess my point is that your initial line of reasoning (invent a new type of slave role) doesn't seem likely to affect much change on the staff's mindset (because what you described isn't actually new).

[Gilgamesh]

Maybe Human slaves should have these types of special privileges, whereas other races (elves, muls, dwarves etc.) should be much more restrictive? It'll help show the human supremacy found in both cities. Changing the type of slavery in game doesn't seem like something the staff could do, but through a series of player-guided plots involving either House Borsail or House Winrothol?

[Delirium]

Without slave roles, Aja Driamusek would never have been sprung from captivity and returned to take the northern stages by storm.

I see why the policy's there but I hate that storage is the only option.

[Kassindra]

I miss my slave girl. She was of one of the slave houses in game and she did have some freedom to walk around, do errands and other things and the role was beautiful and so different and so RARE, that it was one of the best experiences I have had.

I honestly do believe slavery could work again and I hope one day soon it is re-examined and discussed to see how we can make it more enjoyable. Offering it as a karma role is good or even opening it up as a staff called role (like it was in my experience), making it less restrictive, IE: Giving them the freedom to walk around, do errands etc to avoid the "I'm bored." thing when a master isn't around or have different playtimes could really help I feel.

[Morrolan]

Offering it as a karma role is good or even opening it up as a staff called role (like it was in my experience), making it less restrictive, IE: Giving them the freedom to walk around, do errands etc to avoid the "I'm bored." thing when a master isn't around or have different playtimes could really help I feel.

Making this an 7-8 karma role, similar to other highly restrictive RP-intensive roles, might be something we could ask staff to consider.

[Marauder Moe]

Staff have already said that if one of them is inclined to support a slave role they will put out a role call for one.

[Vwest]

Yes, there is the argument that "Zalanthas is harsh." But, honestly, it isn't that harsh. Most groups, most days, get roughly enough water and food for minimal survival. Some get less and don't do so well. But sometimes we act like every place in Zalanthas is as harsh as the 'Rinth, and that isn't really true.

Not on topic, but thank you for saying it.

[Kassindra]

Staff have already said that if one of them is inclined to support a slave role they will put out a role call for one.

Makes me wish I were staff.

[Morrolan]

Staff have already said that if one of them is inclined to support a slave role they will put out a role call for one.

Makes me wish I were staff.

I recommend the following:

Code Select Expand

>say (tapping %boots heels together three times) There's no place like staff-land.

Or, you could just send in an app, you know. 

[Kassindra]

Staff have already said that if one of them is inclined to support a slave role they will put out a role call for one.

Makes me wish I were staff.

I recommend the following:

Code Select Expand

>say (tapping %boots heels together three times) There's no place like staff-land.

Or, you could just send in an app, you know. 

*taps her boots together three times* Lol. 

[Suhuy]

In Old Tuluk, legionnaires were born into their ranks and thus property of the city-state. Armed slaves, essentially.

[musashi]

All Lyksae elite warriors are still slaves to this day. Pity 

[Is Friday]

All Lyksae elite warriors are still slaves to this day. Pity 

Lyksae is an awesome clan and needs to be re-opened.

[Barsook]

All Lyksae elite warriors are still slaves to this day. Pity 

Lyksae is an awesome clan and needs to be re-opened.

+1

[Nyr]

Lyksae is an awesome clan and needs to be revamped entirely in order to be re-opened.

[musashi]

Well?! Jeeze get to it Nyr! What else could you possibly be occupied with?!

[Riev]

Well?! Jeeze get to it Nyr! What else could you possibly be occupied with?!

Seriously. What do we pay you for?