Sexual Taboos

[MeTekillot]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

[bcw81]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

Why? People don't know about genetics nor do they have a religion that tells them otherwise.

[palomar]

I believe even nobles would be careful about breeding baby nobles through close blood relationship (cousins would be fine, I guess). Wouldn't be too hard to figure out that some hereditary disabilities (maybe mutations) come as the result of such breeding, especially since some Houses have a pretty decent know-how regarding mul breeding.

A good (or scary) example from real world history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain

[Desertman]

If an enemy of mine ever dies in the near future, I'm hiring a prostitute to hump their corpse at meleth's every day.

Also humped a corpse, and used one as a pillow. Not the same corpse.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If an enemy of mine ever dies in the near future, I'm hiring a prostitute to hump their corpse at meleth's every day.

Also humped a corpse, and used one as a pillow. Not the same corpse.

Had a pc kill someone's pregnant mate (try to, they ran 1 room and got killed by an npc). They screwed on top the corpse. It was so abhorrent to play out, to me, but the characters were spurred on by how fucked up it was. Also had a character be intimate with a corpse once, though they weren't a habitual necro. Also got some weird responses from some people for having a sexually active 14 year old, though the last one, I don't really get. I became sexually active at that age, and I was under the impression that you're forced to start at 13 or older is because you're considered more or less 'grown' at that age in Zalanthas (which also confuses me why several people come in with 13 year olds and act like they're much younger - there's a reason you can't have 'girl' or 'boy' in your sdesc but can have 'teen').

Edit to add: I also had a pc in 2008 (200-late) who was in love with their brother (a pc), though it never went anywhere.

I think that's the most twisted ones I've got.

[Desertman]

(which also confuses me why several people come in with 13 year olds and act like they're much younger - there's a reason you can't have 'girl' or 'boy' in your sdesc but can have 'teen').

Folk like to play children. I don't see a problem with it personally. When they pick a 13 year old and play them like they are actually 8 or 9, something I see fairly often, I go with it. It makes for some interesting roleplay a lot of the time that I couldn't otherwise have if I was playing with 13yr+ characters.

I'm not sure what the reasoning was for not letting us play younger characters. Maybe because 'poor strength' alone wouldn't be enough to keep 10 year old warriors from stomping adult characters in combat and so we had to make a limit to that somewhere? If so, I would rather have code put in place to further limit child pc's abilities based on their age to make them act/react more realistically in coded situations to prevent unrealistic scenarios like the one mentioned above.

Maybe have their base offense and defense hardcapped much lower until they reach puberty along with hardcapping other skills and abilities appropriately? I don't know.

But that is all another topic I suppose.

[spicemustflow]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

Why? People don't know about genetics nor do they have a religion that tells them otherwise.

doesn't matter, people would notice that breeding with close relatives produces defective offspring. that's how the taboo against it appeared on Earth, I believe.

I'd love to see a mutated inbred noble, that has the desired trait of their particular house but is fucked up in every other way.

[Desertman]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

Why? People don't know about genetics nor do they have a religion that tells them otherwise.

doesn't matter, people would notice that breeding with close relatives produces defective offspring. that's how the taboo against it appeared on Earth, I believe.

I'd love to see a mutated inbred noble, that has the desired trait of their particular house but is fucked up in every other way.

Oooohhhh, I like that.

Borsail.

The ivory-skinned, silver-crowned midget.

[Patuk]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

Why? People don't know about genetics nor do they have a religion that tells them otherwise.

doesn't matter, people would notice that breeding with close relatives produces defective offspring. that's how the taboo against it appeared on Earth, I believe.

I'd love to see a mutated inbred noble, that has the desired trait of their particular house but is fucked up in every other way.

Plenty, plenty civilisations indeed did not have any such taboos. Shit, tradition mandated the egyptian pharaoh was made to marry his sister. Zalanthas is a lot less civilised than even most historical earthen cultures, due to its lack of metal. Brother/sister relations may or may not be taboo, but there's no telling without some guidelines.

[Marauder Moe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

[slipshod]

I think cousins getting comfy would probably not raise too many eyebrows.

Brothers and sisters, on the other hand, would probably ick people out.

Why? People don't know about genetics nor do they have a religion that tells them otherwise.

doesn't matter, people would notice that breeding with close relatives produces defective offspring. that's how the taboo against it appeared on Earth, I believe.

I'd love to see a mutated inbred noble, that has the desired trait of their particular house but is fucked up in every other way.

It's actually even less thoughtful and deliberate than that.  The taboo developed physiologically, as a way for our bodies to protect us from breeding that would weaken or retard our bloodlines.  Just like you don't need a knowledge of bacteria and microbes to gag and be revolted by the idea of eating feces, one's body has a biological aversion to sexual contact with a close family member.  Even the scent of a close family member will be a turn off to a relative (with a healthy mind).  There are exceptions to the rule - people whose perversion overrides their body's programming, or who for whatever other reason are still attracted to a close relative - but the general population at large will reject incest without needing to think about or culturally justify why.  It's just natural.  It's the flip-side of the coin to what determines attraction.  People are naturally attracted to different genetic pools, because that maximizes the chances of filling in gaps in immunities and traits their own bloodline is lacking.  By the same token, a close family member has the same basic genetic makeup and has nothing to offer as a mate that will improve the chances of offspring thriving.  This is a sceevie topic though, heh.

Edit:  Inca royalty also favored brother/sister marriages.  But even there and in Egyptian society, these were not customs that the masses were encouraged to adopt or mimic.  They remained exceptions to the natural norm.  Western royal families who inbred, even at the level of cousins, in an effort to keep the bloodlines pure thought they were smarter than nature, and the results (like Charles of Spain) show how wrong they were.

[Malken]

The playerbase of Armageddon is one of the most twisted, perverted and wicked players I've had the honor (and horror) of playing with.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

[ShaLeah]

There are two Houses on Armageddon that know very well the results of breeding. Marriages are contractual on Zalanthas and, very likely, used in mind to mingle the bloodline. Incest would remain taboo, no matter how many <insert species> kank while calling themselves brother and sister.

[Maso]

The playerbase of Armageddon is one of the most twisted, perverted and wicked players I've had the honor (and horror) of playing with.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

[Morrolan]

Edit:  Inca royalty also favored brother/sister marriages.  But even there and in Egyptian society, these were not customs that the masses were encouraged to adopt or mimic.  They remained exceptions to the natural norm.  Western royal families who inbred, even at the level of cousins, in an effort to keep the bloodlines pure thought they were smarter than nature, and the results (like Charles of Spain) show how wrong they were.

Yeah, incest taboos are universal, but not universaly the same. The level of consanguinity allowed within a culture often has a lot to do with that culture, as well as clan membership and inheritance rules.

Marrying your cousin is actually a tradition in many parts of the world. But it has to be your mother's brother's kid or your father's sister's kid (cross-cousin) not mother's sister's kid, or father's brother's kid (parallel cousin). That's because parallel cousins end up in the same clan (roughly "have the same last name") but cross-cousins do not.

"It's Ok, We're Not Cousins by Blood": The Cousin Marriage Controversy in Historical Perspective

In an effort at clarification, the National Society of Genetic Counselors (NSGC) convened a group of experts to review existing studies on risks to offspring and issue recommendations for clinical practice. Their report concluded that the risks of a first-cousin union were generally much smaller than assumed—about 1.7%–2% above the background risk for congenital defects and 4.4% for pre-reproductive mortality—and did not warrant any special preconception testing. In the authors' view, neither the stigma that attaches to such unions in North America nor the laws that bar them were scientifically well-grounded.

[Desertman]

Do we have any players from Arkansas?

(Oh yes I did.)

[Patuk]

It's actually even less thoughtful and deliberate than that.  The taboo developed physiologically, as a way for our bodies to protect us from breeding that would weaken or retard our bloodlines.  Just like you don't need a knowledge of bacteria and microbes to gag and be revolted by the idea of eating feces, one's body has a biological aversion to sexual contact with a close family member.  Even the scent of a close family member will be a turn off to a relative (with a healthy mind).  There are exceptions to the rule - people whose perversion overrides their body's programming, or who for whatever other reason are still attracted to a close relative - but the general population at large will reject incest without needing to think about or culturally justify why.  It's just natural.  It's the flip-side of the coin to what determines attraction.  People are naturally attracted to different genetic pools, because that maximizes the chances of filling in gaps in immunities and traits their own bloodline is lacking.  By the same token, a close family member has the same basic genetic makeup and has nothing to offer as a mate that will improve the chances of offspring thriving.  This is a sceevie topic though, heh.

Humans aren't attracted to different gene pools en masse. Culture tends to help out with that. You're right about brother/sister relations, but things go further than this - people tend not to grow attracted to any different sex people they grow up with. That's why daughters tend not to try and jump their fathers, and why adopted kids don't sleep with everyone in their adoptive family once they reach puberty either. In fact, when brothers and sisters get separated at an early age, there's been multiple cases of them getting attracted to each other in the end because of scent recognition.

[HavokBlue]

There are two Houses on Armageddon that know very well the results of breeding. Marriages are contractual on Zalanthas and, very likely, used in mind to mingle the bloodline. Incest would remain taboo, no matter how many <insert species> kank while calling themselves brother and sister.

My point is that the noble families aren't huge. You can interbreed between families all you want, but kind of like the kings and queens of Europe back in the day, everybody is eventually everybody's cousin.

[musashi]

You have discovered the sekrit reason behind the Grey Hunt and Hlum nobility! They need the fresh injection of genetic material ... you must now disappear!!!

[Cutthroat]

Bearing in mind that a lot of IRL noble inbreeding was due to protecting status/wealth and keeping succession lines close for ruling families, there isn't much of an advantage to noble inbreeding in Zalanthas because marriage contracts between Houses function as a trade, so giving and taking is to be expected. Plus, Zalanthan noble families don't really have succession lines to protect since their city is ruled ultimately by one undying dictator. Surely it can be complicated by sex outside of marriage, bastard children (in Allanak), or some sort of freaky Zalanthan equivalent of a Cersei/Jaime/Robert situation, but it seems to me that inbreeding is avoided because the "normal" alternative is so much more desirable. With that and the number of nobility numbering in the dozens to hundreds per House, while most nobility will be related to each other, the relations will be distant enough so as to not produce an inbred child. I mean if two married nobles have great-grandparents who were siblings, that really isn't a risky situation, assuming they aren't more closely related further down the tree.

[Iiyola]

I played a 15 year old kid once, who felt he was on top of the world when someone hired him a whore. Nothing wrong with that, I think personally. Like someone else said in this thread, in Zalanthas 13+ years old = sexually active = no taboo. I haven't seen many teen pregnancies though, come to think of it. But even that shouldn't be a taboo for Zalanthas, imho.

Kanking a rinthi, different race, gicker = definitely taboo. Rinthi are dirty and have crotch rot, 'gickers make your dick fall off and they're just scary, difference race is just... well... disgusting.

If a dwarf calls my human beautiful or handsome, I always get creeped out.

[Fredd]

Bearing in mind that a lot of IRL noble inbreeding was due to protecting status/wealth and keeping succession lines close for ruling families, there isn't much of an advantage to noble inbreeding in Zalanthas because marriage contracts between Houses function as a trade, so giving and taking is to be expected. Plus, Zalanthan noble families don't really have succession lines to protect since their city is ruled ultimately by one undying dictator. Surely it can be complicated by sex outside of marriage, bastard children (in Allanak), or some sort of freaky Zalanthan equivalent of a Cersei/Jaime/Robert situation, but it seems to me that inbreeding is avoided because the "normal" alternative is so much more desirable. With that and the number of nobility numbering in the dozens to hundreds per House, while most nobility will be related to each other, the relations will be distant enough so as to not produce an inbred child. I mean if two married nobles have great-grandparents who were siblings, that really isn't a risky situation, assuming they aren't more closely related further down the tree.

perhapse it's just the Merchant families then. But i KNOW it's in the docs they do it. Though I think it's more cousins/ect then like, close blood.

[Twilight]

I really wish I had gotten to do more with my necrophiliac.

That said, I will go against the grain, and say that interracial is probably at an intermediate step between frowned upon and taboo.  And that certain traditions may twist this into acceptable.

To give an example of what I am talking about, take muls.  Normally, humans and dwarves don't mate.  But obviously, there is a context, even if they are forced (which don't think they are given they are bred for it) in which humans and dwarves do mate.  And produce muls.  And in that context, it is completely acceptable.

Further, the IC attitude is going to have to somehow support the half-elven population.  While some is half-elf / half-elf mating, I've never heard of that being a large percentage.  The large percentage is rape.  It probably makes sense that interracial sex is sometimes viewed as okay when the act of mating is rape.  One could argue it is more an act of displaying power than sexually motivated. 

A long term interracial relationship might be taboo, but half-elves do come from somewhere.

On a related note, once upon a time I wouldn't have said rape was taboo really either.  Plenty of my PCs have it in their background, I suppose because I envision more of a forced, violent sexual set of interactions.  With staff consent policy now, I'm not really sure if it is as widespread as I thought but we have consent downplaying its role in current roleplay, or whether it was determined overall to not happen that much.

[Marauder Moe]

taboo != never happens

[maxid]

I think you'd still get some sort of stigma if you weren't at the bottom of the barrel if you raped cross species elf-human or whatever.  It's just that in Zalanthas enough people either don't have access and let their hormones override or are sadistic enough not to care or have secret fetishes for other races that it creates a population of it.