Fashion Police

[AmandaGreathouse]

I should invent/come up with something arbitrary that nevertheless would be allowed for nobles only. Commoners can't pay for metal rings, and nobody will ever get themselves a noble caste tattoo up in Tuluk. I'm thinking stuff like hairstyles and accesories in here.

I actually hate that. And, beyond that, if it's hairstyles, what about newbies or people who simply want that hairstyle? Why would it be offlimits? How would that add to the game world? I actually quit playing Dark Isles because of the sumptuary laws. They annoyed me to no end. Metal and caste inks make sense. Telling someone they can't wear certain other things seems pointless and arbitrary.

[HavokBlue]

In the cotton fields, no one can hear you scream.

[Reiloth]

I should invent/come up with something arbitrary that nevertheless would be allowed for nobles only. Commoners can't pay for metal rings, and nobody will ever get themselves a noble caste tattoo up in Tuluk. I'm thinking stuff like hairstyles and accesories in here.

I actually hate that. And, beyond that, if it's hairstyles, what about newbies or people who simply want that hairstyle? Why would it be offlimits? How would that add to the game world? I actually quit playing Dark Isles because of the sumptuary laws. They annoyed me to no end. Metal and caste inks make sense. Telling someone they can't wear certain other things seems pointless and arbitrary.

Don't all customs to outsiders look arbitrary and pointless?

I like laws like this. Quite a bit actually. Makes it seem like a real culture.

[Iiyola]

If a commoner can cover themselves in diamonds... I think that goes a bit too far. But that's just my own opinion.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If a commoner can cover themselves in diamonds... I think that goes a bit too far. But that's just my own opinion.

I think it looks gaudy and in poor taste, but I don't see any reason for the laws to appear out of nowhere and for no ostensible reason. If someone's putting on a ridiculous display of wealth, kill 'em for it if it's IC, if it's not, do what's IC to do about it.

I should invent/come up with something arbitrary that nevertheless would be allowed for nobles only. Commoners can't pay for metal rings, and nobody will ever get themselves a noble caste tattoo up in Tuluk. I'm thinking stuff like hairstyles and accesories in here.

I actually hate that. And, beyond that, if it's hairstyles, what about newbies or people who simply want that hairstyle? Why would it be offlimits? How would that add to the game world? I actually quit playing Dark Isles because of the sumptuary laws. They annoyed me to no end. Metal and caste inks make sense. Telling someone they can't wear certain other things seems pointless and arbitrary.

Don't all customs to outsiders look arbitrary and pointless?

I like laws like this. Quite a bit actually. Makes it seem like a real culture.

I think there's plenty of other things that do the same. Like the very real -taboo- against wearing silk for most of the pcs in Allanak outside an item or two, usually small ones. That makes its own sort of sense. But hard and fast laws, imposed OOC just for the sake of having them there, seem pointless and ridiculous to me.

[Iiyola]

51 players and it's past 2am server time. Lookin' good.

Voting works people!

Moar!

[HavokBlue]

Is there an actual documented taboo against commoners wearing silk in Allanak, or is this just something certain players like to believe? Because a decent number of Allanaki PCs seem to wear silk pretty regularly...

[BleakOne]

Is there an actual documented taboo against commoners wearing silk in Allanak, or is this just something certain players like to believe? Because a decent number of Allanaki PCs seem to wear silk pretty regularly...

There's a taboo if anyone with authority happens to think so at the time. If it's a pet peeve of a Lord Templar or member of the nobility, then it's pretty much law.

[HavokBlue]

Right, but is there anything in the documents to support this stance? I'm not debating whether it's right or wrong for certain PCs to take that stance, just wondering if there's any docs to back it up that I've somehow missed.

[MeTekillot]

Allanak is a class system, so the roles of commoners and nobles need to be a little more heavily enforced. So, silk really shouldn't be on all but the most important (GMH) commoners. Yes, that's nice that you've sold dozens of silky braies. Please stop cavorting about in full silk because I can't tell you from the noble who wears gloves.

[HavokBlue]

I don't think there's anything to suggest that commoners who can afford silk shouldn't be wearing it, though. If anything, it seems like a noble who's upset about a commoner in silk would be laughed at by his peers, because he couldn't buy an outfit flamboyant and distinct enough to distinguish himself from Merchant Talia in her silk cloak.

Source: http://armageddon.org/general/clothing.html#Allanak

Edit: Now a commoner trying to one-up a nobleman's outfit in terms of outlandishness and style would be another matter entirely.

[Reiloth]

If a commoner can cover themselves in diamonds... I think that goes a bit too far. But that's just my own opinion.

I think it looks gaudy and in poor taste, but I don't see any reason for the laws to appear out of nowhere and for no ostensible reason. If someone's putting on a ridiculous display of wealth, kill 'em for it if it's IC, if it's not, do what's IC to do about it.

I should invent/come up with something arbitrary that nevertheless would be allowed for nobles only. Commoners can't pay for metal rings, and nobody will ever get themselves a noble caste tattoo up in Tuluk. I'm thinking stuff like hairstyles and accesories in here.

I actually hate that. And, beyond that, if it's hairstyles, what about newbies or people who simply want that hairstyle? Why would it be offlimits? How would that add to the game world? I actually quit playing Dark Isles because of the sumptuary laws. They annoyed me to no end. Metal and caste inks make sense. Telling someone they can't wear certain other things seems pointless and arbitrary.

Don't all customs to outsiders look arbitrary and pointless?

I like laws like this. Quite a bit actually. Makes it seem like a real culture.

I think there's plenty of other things that do the same. Like the very real -taboo- against wearing silk for most of the pcs in Allanak outside an item or two, usually small ones. That makes its own sort of sense. But hard and fast laws, imposed OOC just for the sake of having them there, seem pointless and ridiculous to me.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. Can you be specific? While I appreciate vagueness for the sake of not divulging too much IC detail, this seems like being vague for the sake of not having too solid an argument, and relying on 'well this that and the other thing'.

Also the documentation on Allanak's clothing styles is here:

http://www.armageddon.org/general/clothing.html

[AmandaGreathouse]

It's mostly something I've seen grow up in game over the past few years. I've seen people be whipped, have the items taken and so on. It's not in the documentation, it's much more recent and more held up by the players regularly than the documentation.

Edit to add: Not like 'no silk', but more of a question of people not dressing head to toe in it regularly. If people wear too much silk in Allanak and they're not fairly important in the terms of ranks that pcs in game can achieve via the caste system, they often get shit about it, whether from nobility, templars, or others. A scarf or a belt or even like a shirt and pants, is fine in many cases, I mean the whole head to toe overload thing.

[Reiloth]

Seems about right.

Allanak isn't the United States of America. Templars can make up whatever laws they see fit, and so can Nobility to some extent. It's a despotic dictatorship, where the dictator lives in a tower made out of Gold high above people who never even see him. If they decide you're wearing too much silk and you deserve to be whipped, so be it. If they decide you are too ugly to live, off to the pit, so be it. If you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and should be made to stand on your tiptoes while reciting "Wind over the Plains" backwards, so be it. Such is the facist regime that rules Allanak.

[BleakOne]

I think it's an extremely complicated thing, really. Based on who you are, where you are, and who you are speaking to.

A Borsail Aide probably should wear fine silks when out and about, but nothing to outshine their betters. It might be offensive if they're tromping around in sweat-stained tunics and the like, since it's a bad image for the House.

A wealthy, well-connected commoner could probably get away with wearing a silk scarf or maybe a pair of gloves. He'd risk getting laughed at if he turned up to the Gaj in them though, or have them taken if some random highborn decided it was offensive.

Obviously Merchant House family members can wear whatever they damn well please, as long as they're not too obvious about showing up the nobility. House Kadius could probably get away even with that, being the fashion house and all.

Common grebbers might get pulled aside for disrespecting the noble material if they make a habit of grebbing, hunting or other menial tasks while wearing it.

[AmandaGreathouse]

@Reiloth: Exactly. That part, I like. It's not hard and fast. It's whimsical and based on the opinions of those in power. That is a big part of why I am opposed to adding arbitrary outside laws for no reason. People have invented and hold to their own in game and they do a fair job of keeping it up, and I feel that it is more reasonable and allows for more flexibility and enjoyment (and unintentional offense!) than hard and fast sumptuary laws would.

I think it's an extremely complicated thing, really. Based on who you are, where you are, and who you are speaking to.

A Borsail Aide probably should wear fine silks when out and about, but nothing to outshine their betters. It might be offensive if they're tromping around in sweat-stained tunics and the like, since it's a bad image for the House.

A wealthy, well-connected commoner could probably get away with wearing a silk scarf or maybe a pair of gloves. He'd risk getting laughed at if he turned up to the Gaj in them though, or have them taken if some random highborn decided it was offensive.

Obviously Merchant House family members can wear whatever they damn well please, as long as they're not too obvious about showing up the nobility. House Kadius could probably get away even with that, being the fashion house and all.

Common grebbers might get pulled aside for disrespecting the noble material if they make a habit of grebbing, hunting or other menial tasks while wearing it.

Yeah, I like it this way, really. I think it makes a lot more sense with the shifting degrees of importance and power in game than hard and fast laws would. I think the shifting and changes make it seem more realistic than hard and fast laws would, honestly. That's why I expounded on my disagreement, but you put it very well.

[hyzhenhok]

It's important, especially in Allanak, to have nobles and templars bullying the common folk over what we would see as stupid, petty matters. Using wardrobe as an excuse is a pretty decent mainstay for that; I don't think it's an issue.

You'd probably have wealthy commoners trying to get away with dressing above their station even if Templar Fancypants has a reputation for punishing people who do, as long as he isn't executing them for it. If you get fined or your silks are confiscated, it's just another fashion expense. Something the wealthy commoners who have the resources and the reasons to be wearing silks should have no problem handling.

[Dakota]

If a commoner can cover themselves in diamonds... I think that goes a bit too far. But that's just my own opinion.

Sap bait.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

>read last two pages

>ask is Tek's Tower really made of gold?

[Lizzie]

>read last two pages

>ask is Tek's Tower really made of gold?

It's made out of cheese, just like the moon.

[Patuk]

Nobles and the alike being petty and arbitrary makes perfect sense both ICly and from a real-life perspective. I've read recountings of medieval peasants being put to death because they owned hawks(only noblemen above a certain ranks could do so) and women having torches shoved down their mouth for dancing on sundays. During the cultural revolution, multiple unfortunate citizens of china were publicly shamed and sometimes even killed because their hair looked too much like Mao Zedong's(there are pictures of this, even.) Randomly killing people for things they can't always help is a dick move, agreed, but as it stands I wouldn't mind seeing some more high-class brutality.

[Harmless]

Random killings in real life is fine as inspiration. I want to remind my malevolent players of nobles and templars that in Armageddon going straight for the death sentence would just be noobish, when there are countless ways to punish someone or get them to do what you want.

[Lizzie]

Random killings in real life is fine as inspiration. I want to remind my malevolent players of nobles and templars that in Armageddon going straight for the death sentence would just be noobish, when there are countless ways to punish someone or get them to do what you want.

I think that's a judgment call that only the staff of the game can make. If your character was killed by a "malevolent player" of a noble or templar, and you object to it, send a player complaint.

I've found in most cases, when templars killed my PCs, it was justified and made IC sense. I often objected to the timing of it, and in one case I objected to an OOC complaint that I didn't consent to torture, and I even don't like it that one particular templar was responsible for 3 of my PC deaths, but for the most part I was okay with the fact that my PC was PKed by them (or their player-animated NPC soldiers).

[Malken]

Random killings in real life is fine as inspiration. I want to remind my malevolent players of nobles and templars that in Armageddon going straight for the death sentence would just be noobish, when there are countless ways to punish someone or get them to do what you want.

Like death by snoo snoo.

[bcw81]

I really wish waking up wouldn't sit you up. If I want to sit up, I'll tell you I'm sitting up. The code should allow for you to wake up just like it does when you come back to your senses after passing out.