This item looks like it was made by...

[Maso]

Or whatever the line is. When you value or view (or whatever the commands are)...

My suggestion is to add a new field to this....more useful for those in clans (but would also have some use out in the world):

This item looks like it was made by the Northern Branch of Kadius for House Salarr.

- If you're in Kadius you now know not to sell it to other folks.
- If you're in the bazaar and this in the Kadian shop (oopsie) or any other shop, you can avoid it...or use it for RP (buy it and return it to Salarr because...it probably came off one of their guys after they got backstabbed for it) or whatever.

I just think this would make life a little bit easier. Having been in a clan or two in my time I've noticed there's a lot of 'clan specific' gear, but unless you know then you...don't know and there's always a lot of random stuff everywhere and it can just get messy. I can think of one item in particular which has a regular version and then a house specific version and the only difference is a tiny adjustment in the mdesc.

Would all the items in the world need a new field? Worth it anyway, for the neatness. Questioning the realism? How would your character know it was made for Salarr? Well...how would they know it was made by Kadius? This more a headache reliever than anything else...but realistically, a piece of Salarr uniform made by Kadius is more likely to have a Salarr emblem on it than a Kadian one.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Totally bitchin rad idea.

[Nyr]

How often is this a problem?  Most clan-specific gear is complete with an emblem or symbol of some kind, so that would be a good clue in-game. 

Additionally, most clan-specific gear isn't craftable by other clans in a literal sense; it is assumed to be done virtually if it is not indicated otherwise.  The things you are mentioning may be on the top end of requested items for a House, and in my experience, those sorts of items are not craftable but orderable.  If you order things, your staff looks it up.  When they look it up, they should see these OOC tags on the items and can inform you (if necessary) that this is in fact meant to be for this House or that event.

Identifying the clan make separately from the intended clan for sale would be something of a hassle code-wise.  I'm just not sure it is worth the investment.

[ShaLeah]

This seems easily remedied by clans that sell things having a list of their product which I think they should anyway.
Also, houses should have a quartermaster who knows everything that belongs to them.
Not to mention not everyone is a trader, why would anyone outside the house that created it and the house it was created FOR know its livery?

[Nyr]

Not to belabor the point, but...how often is this a problem, and how much of a problem is it when it does occur? 

Even if we disregard your proposed solution, ShaLeah, clans that sell things go through their staff to load them up (via the request tool).  We have some code ideas for revolutionizing that, but getting that off of the ground is not a priority at this time.  I don't mean to say that simply because it has always been this way, it shouldn't change, but it has always been this way, and it does work.  I believe that several clans do have quartermasters, yes, but I am not sure what you mean here--are you saying the code should be updated on them to provide this information?  That'd bring us right back around to this being a hassle code-wise, and not necessarily worth the investment (because we are again questioning how often this is an issue and how big of an issue it actually is).

As for people knowing livery, if you mean OOC, that's in the public documentation for any clan that is publicly known.  If you mean IC, that's certainly something a single character might not know, but there's also no reason they couldn't (or wouldn't) learn.

[ShaLeah]

Not to belabor the point, but...how often is this a problem, and how much of a problem is it when it does occur? 

Not much. I've played many merchants and I've only encountered the whole this should go back to X person/house thing a handful of times at best.  Someone either tells you your shit is for sale or returns it. Those who murder you/your people usually keep that shit for trophies too, it seems.

I just don't see Maso's pet peeve cause enough to make a new coded tag and give everyone merchant information. Not -everyone- should know enough about mercantile arts to know which GMH made what imho.

Even if we disregard your proposed solution, ShaLeah, clans that sell things go through their staff to load them up (via the request tool).  We have some code ideas for revolutionizing that, but getting that off of the ground is not a priority at this time.  I don't mean to say that simply because it has always been this way, it shouldn't change, but it has always been this way, and it does work.  I believe that several clans do have quartermasters, yes, but I am not sure what you mean here--are you saying the code should be updated on them to provide this information?  That'd bring us right back around to this being a hassle code-wise, and not necessarily worth the investment (because we are again questioning how often this is an issue and how big of an issue it actually is).

As for people knowing livery, if you mean OOC, that's in the public documentation for any clan that is publicly known.  If you mean IC, that's certainly something a single character might not know, but there's also no reason they couldn't (or wouldn't) learn.

It would be time consuming and tedious but I feel (always have actually, probably having been a quartermaster for the Army) that everything you sell (as a merchant arts geared clan) should be on an inventory sheet (part of the docs) so that your merchants can get your product out there. Your merchants should be knowledgeable about your product, they should know who they can and cannot sell certain things to, that should be the standard.

GMHs that make special House things, should have them categorized as such.  A Salarri merchant should not be selling a noble's only piece of armor to some female who likes scorpions. That should be pretty obvious.

Going through the hundreds of thousands (?) of items and giving each clan a comprehensive list that is updated as items are added seems a bit more realistic in keeping the powers that be up where they belong and the lay man clueless.

By every clan should have a quartermaster I mean that (npc or virtually) someone in the clan -would- know exactly what is allowed, what isn't, what can be worn by employees, what can only be worn by nobles, agents or other high ranking peeps. The "quartermaster" is the list. Either in the members only docs or the clan section.

The ease with which a merchant can get the items via the request tool seems fine but totally contingent upon a) the Imm having the time to load it and b) the player playing.
You -could- make an actual warehouse with merchant NPCs selling THEIR items only, a weapons counter, an armor counter, a miscellaneous counter, high end clothing, regular clothing, accessories, jewelry, shoes... like a big ole Macy's or Sears (in ones prospective House) and that would eliminate the need for lists. Make it so that only rare (or laaaaaaaaaaaaarge) items would need to be requested through the request tool.

[Nyr]

We are not going to provide anything more than a list of common goods to people in clans that need them, and that is at the discretion of clan administration.  They determine whether that is needed, and if so, what to provide.

By every clan should have a quartermaster I mean that (npc or virtually) someone in the clan -would- know exactly what is allowed, what isn't, what can be worn by employees, what can only be worn by nobles, agents or other high ranking peeps. The "quartermaster" is the list. Either in the members only docs or the clan section.

The "quartermaster" is staff.  We already load stuff on NPC quartermasters to be sold, but at the moment at least it is far easier for a knowledgeable (or even a brand new) merchant PC to correspond with staff regarding item orders.  "I have a guy that wants some scorpion stuff."  We look through and say "hey, here's the scorpion stuff we have."  It gets more specific in that (the more specific that the merchant PC can be, the better for us to find something obscure that fits it), but that is the gist of the way things work.  Additionally, this allows us to cycle in some obscure (but otherwise common) goods that match the same needs that the "customer" wants.  "Hey, we found this old scorpion-carved thing that was definitely not created for Tor.  Here." 

I don't think that we as staff are making a habit of loading stuff that is restricted to group A being sold to non-affiliated dude B.

The ease with which a merchant can get the items via the request tool seems fine but totally contingent upon a) the Imm having the time to load it and b) the player playing.

This would be a potential issue if a) staff of great merchant houses did not already devote time to loading items for item orders and b) we did not expect certain playtimes and communication about those playtimes out of players of merchants in GMH roles.  The past two months of item order requests saw the majority resolved in five days or less, with the majority of those done within a day or two.  The outliers (five of them) saw two requests during the week leading up to/week of Christmas actually taking a few days longer than the five day time.  The longest of the outliers took 8 days to resolve. 

You -could- make an actual warehouse with merchant NPCs selling THEIR items only, a weapons counter, an armor counter, a miscellaneous counter, high end clothing, regular clothing, accessories, jewelry, shoes... like a big ole Macy's or Sears (in ones prospective House) and that would eliminate the need for lists.

These already exist to some extent, though not as extensive as you lay it out here (it's tied in with how stuff works with orders; we load orders up on these npcs).  I indicated earlier that we have some ideas for revolutionizing how this works in general (and we do!), but the overall system implementation is not a priority at this time.

[Fredd]

When playing a stealthy type this comes up when stealing though. try to sell something and you get told it's owned by someone, but you can't find the mark in the mdesc.

Probably not a big enough problem to put staff on though, but it would be a nice little extra.

[ShaLeah]

A whole buncha stuff

Yeah, it was a suggestion to alleviate staff's burdens and free them up for other things, not a tuluki type hint to insinuate staff -doesn't- do it or does it poorly, any time I've needed anything it's been supplied quite quickly.

[Wug]

I understand the sentiment but I think it'd actually be more difficult currently to implement than just dealing with questions or infrequent mixups.

On that note though I played a merchant role where I ran into a few items where I couldn't quite tell if they were for a certain clan or not. In that case I just noted that in item order requests and cleared it up that way.

[Nyr]

A whole buncha stuff

Yeah, it was a suggestion to alleviate staff's burdens and free them up for other things, not a tuluki type hint to insinuate staff -doesn't- do it or does it poorly, any time I've needed anything it's been supplied quite quickly.

I didn't think you were complaining about staff.  I do think the two things that you indicated there could definitely be an issue if we did not have standards or measures in place to address them.  The data doesn't seem to show it as an issue, that was the point I was making.

[greasygemo]

I fully support NPC shopkeepers -not- buying and selling their own restricted gear. Because that seems both silly and confusing. If you buy a thing at X shop, it ought to not be X shops private clan item.