Ordering stuff in game, how tough should this be?

[greasygemo]

Without going into IC details, I've noticed that, every time I've ever placed an order with anyone anywhere, save the most basic, easy to get stuff, I have been either ripped off (as in my materials are taken and nothing ever is given back) or I never heard about it again despite constant badgering.

Is this the way it is supposed to be? Buyer beware? Does anyone else find that placing an order for something is unbelievably hard to get finished? Am I doing this wrong? 

[musashi]

Don't EVER pay in advance dude.

[Barsook]

I rarely order something.

[greasygemo]

Don't EVER pay in advance dude.

I wanted them to turn my <redacted> into a <redacted> ... 

I'll never get a <redacted> ....

[musashi]

Make them craft it in front of you >_>

[RogueGunslinger]

All my characters will be dead by the time a order goes through, so I don't order.

[musashi]

On a more thoughtful note: Getting special orders out of the GMH's can be a bit of a pain, yes. I think there exists a vicious cycle:

1) Everyone orders a bunch of stuff from the new GMH PC on the block.
2) The GMH PC gets overwhelmed and stores.
3) A new GMH PC arrives sometime later.
4) Everyone re-orders their stuff, and is miff'd about it to a degree corresponding to how long they've been waiting already.
5) The new GMH PC get overwhelmed and stores.
6) Repeat 3-5.

The only solution I've found that works is to be patient, very very very patient, and be nice to the new merchants. It's apparently a tough role.

[Narf]

Without going into IC details, I've noticed that, every time I've ever placed an order with anyone anywhere, save the most basic, easy to get stuff, I have been either ripped off (as in my materials are taken and nothing ever is given back) or I never heard about it again despite constant badgering.

Is this the way it is supposed to be? Buyer beware? Does anyone else find that placing an order for something is unbelievably hard to get finished? Am I doing this wrong? 

Having played on both sides of this, some hints:

People will be hesitant to bother staff over one or two little things. Wait until you have a lot of things to order if you can. If you can't you might have to wait until a few other people have also ordered things so they can be lumped into the same request. I know I do things this way when I play merchants, and I've talked to others that do the same.

Don't try to order things if no one knows who you are. Most of us don't trust you to survive the week.
(On that note, after an order keep badgering so we know you're still alive)

Don't order things from people that /you/ don't see very often. PCs will often take orders because they feel obligated to, and not neccessarily because it's a wise decision for them too. This is most true with PCs with infrequent playtimes, or playtimes drastically different than your own. Often times there's some background stuff you don't see that has to be done to fill an order, and a PC that's not on often might not be able to meet up with the appropriate people, or go to the appropriate places.

Don't pay in advance unless somone's previously proven themselves able to fill orders. Some PCs will overestimate what they are allowed to request from staff.

This isn't a comprehensive list, it's just the issues I've run into for filling orders in the past. Also it's more focused on the OOC aspects. IC aspects (like the characters actually are trying to rip you off, or they can't get the components to craft for you) should be dealt with ICly.

[greasygemo]

New Goal: Hire <redacted> to Kidnap merchants from all GMH's and <redacted> them to <redacted> and then force them to make the things I want.

[Desertman]

Place order.

Give merchant until date X to deliver.

Kill merchant if deadline is not met.

Rinse and repeat until you get your item or you are filthy rich from newbie merchant coins.

[Schrodingers Cat]

It's generally a pain in the butt.  But how painless it is depends mostly on who's involved (both players and staff), and what's being ordered.  

From the point of view of a person wanting to buy something, it'd be nice to have merchant NPCs for each house that worked like the various tailor NPCs (Merchant NPCs would take orders, issues tickets telling players to come back in several weeks when the item was ready, then collects the money and the ticket.)   But there are probably many reasons this is not the case.  It would sort eliminate the purpose of PC merchants and make harder to acquire items more common and less "neat". [Edited to add]  However this kind of system might work well for PC merchants inside merchant houses that allowed them to order items from the house, circumventing the need for staff members to load items.

Also from a customer's perspective, offering large tips (or other favors) might work well to motivate PC merchants.  But then again it would depend on the relative wealth of the merchant.

[Marauder Moe]

Here's my take on it:

Neither Salarr nor Kadius are freaking Amazon.  I never thought it was particularly reasonable that what is essentially a medieval institution would provide that level of variety and customer service.

If I were running either of those clans, instead of letting my merchants take orders I'd be like "Here's a box full of stuff.  Go sell it and don't bother me until it's empty."

Special orders should only be for people with metal rings and a LOT of cash, and I mean a lot.  Markups on special orders should be huge compared to what you'd sell the product for if it was already in inventory.

[James de Monet]

Having played a GMH merchant for a very long time, to add to what Narf already mentioned, here are a few key pointers:

• 1) The things you want from the GMH are very seldom 'sitting around the warehouse' (though it can happen). Most GMH orders are handled by special request to the Imms, who then must hand load the items. This is important for two reasons:
  
  
  • a) It means your order must be loaded individually by staff.  Most merchants I know of placed their orders with staff once an RL week (much like clan reports). It is not uncommon for Imms to try to respond to requests within an RL week. This means that if it has not been more than two RL weeks since you placed your order, it is not a "long time". Two RL weeks should be your average 'decent' turnaround time.  This, of course, does not take into account items that necessitate rare materials or that have limited production within the House. Those will take more time (but for IC reasons, not OOC ones).
    
  • b) (For reasons I decided might be better left unclear) this also means that PC merchants must PAY to pick up your goods. They are unlikely to carry your ordered goods around with them, because it means investing their own coin in some crap they don't want.  For this reason, they may ask you to make down payments if you're a nobody or likely to die (or if they've been burned before). The House wants their money, whether you live to see the goods or not.
• 2) GMH merchants do not magically get a list of all the House's goods and prices on being granted the role. They have to figure this out as they go along.  This means:
  

  
  Some PCs will overestimate what they are allowed to request from staff.
  

  and also that if a PC has been with a house less than RL months, they will be guessing on what things cost and what is available. Even at that point, they will only have a good handle on the commonly ordered items. It can take forever for a PC to become a master merchant with a thorough knowledge of the House's wares. Even then, there will be things they've never seen, and the prices for House goods change in every civilization center, so just because they've sold a thousand of product <x> in city <y> doesn't mean they'll know what it costs to get it shipped to town <z>.
  
• 3) Finally, it just depends on the character. If they're lazy, or arrogant, or rich, they probably won't care about the order for a few small worth of crap placed by your Byn runner. Keep in mind, socially, they're a step above commoners, often with ladder-climbing aspirations, and they've got bigger fish-like things to fry (nobles to please, knives to avoid, expeditions to plan, etc.).
  

Disclaimer: All of these aspects are from my personal experience as a merchant (and experiences in/with GMH clans) and are subject to change based on time, House, Immortals involved, and code mechanics.

[greasygemo]

I'm just going to spam throttle every merchant I see until my dreams come true.

Code Select Expand


:grabs ~fancypants by the silk collar
You shout, in fancypant's face: "GET ME MY DEADLY, JET-BLACK, SERRATED WARSWORD OF DOOM!"
Fancypants says, sputtering: "But but but .. I work for Kaidus!"
You say, lowly: "I. Don't. Care."

[BadSkeelz]

Just get your PC (or a friend of your PC) into a position where they can easily PK the merchants if things go south. That seems to speed customer service.

[greasygemo]

Should totally be more pk'ing of uppity merchants. Screw those guys.
(just kidding, I loves you!)

[Eurynomos]

Any sort of thread that = "templars suck" or "where are the merchants" or "man Salarris up north really blow right now" will lead not only into locking, but me saying the following:

Be patient. Mastercrafts take a lot of work Staffside, both with writing and our approval process.
Mastercrafts are not available to just anyone.
All of the things James de Monet said are true. Usually, the customers do not give enough information, and the Merchant has to guess what they were talking about, and then we as Staff have to find what seems the closest thing available. It isn't Amazon.

The ordering system (according to us as Staff) is completely fine.