Hello, my name is stealth skills and golly I irk Kryos

[timb]

  You see groups of people moving and you move along with them.  To prying eyes and authorities, they generally view you as "part of the group."  With a mastered hide skill, you're using your surroundings to your advantage, wherever you might be.

This is why it's good the game has no city type camo. It would be so weird to see someone decked out in multi-thousand sid gear just part of the group of day laborers, blending his way down the street together.

[thatkid]

  You see groups of people moving and you move along with them.  To prying eyes and authorities, they generally view you as "part of the group."  With a mastered hide skill, you're using your surroundings to your advantage, wherever you might be.

This is why it's good the game has no city type camo. It would be so weird to see someone decked out in multi-thousand sid gear just part of the group of day laborers, blending his way down the street together.

A commoner-hide cap looks like it could be worn on the head.
A commoner-hide cap looks like it would help with stealth.

[Suhuy]

  You see groups of people moving and you move along with them.  To prying eyes and authorities, they generally view you as "part of the group."  With a mastered hide skill, you're using your surroundings to your advantage, wherever you might be.

This is why it's good the game has no city type camo. It would be so weird to see someone decked out in multi-thousand sid gear just part of the group of day laborers, blending his way down the street together.

Who says the game has no city camo?

City hide is not exclusively blending in with crowds, that is but one function of the skill. it can also be hiding in the shadows, hiding behind obstructions, etc. And any existing city camo in game surely has an mdesc which indicates as much.

[Qzzrbl]

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.
You notice someone has their hand in their pocket.
You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

Look

You don't have scan so you don't see anyone.

You say, "Hey stop that I'll kill you."

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.
You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

You say, "Stop pls your so bad."

You say ooc: "Srsly man, stop. I'd report you if I could see you."

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

You say, "Fuuuuuuuuck."

n
n
n
n
n
n
n
w
unlock door
open door
n
close door
lock door

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

draw sword
draw sword

look

A short figure in a black hooded cloak is here.

kill hooded

You don't see that here.

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

look

nothing

look

nothing

look

You see a short figure in a black hooded cloak

look figure

You don't see that here.

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

Kill figure

You don't see that here.

You say ooc: "Seriously, this is dumb."

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

A short figure in a dark hooded cloak has departed from the land of Zalanthas.

Based on a true story.

[MeTekillot]

something something file a player complaint something something the code is the way it is something guild with scan something apartment something abuse of the code based on a case by case something

[AmandaGreathouse]

something something file a player complaint something something the code is the way it is something guild with scan something apartment something abuse of the code based on a case by case something

Well played.

[Cind]

I really appreciate you pickpockets and burglars and shit who have all the power in the world to take all my clothes and pack while I'm sleeping or passed out, or to take my dresser, bed and couch out the door of my room, and don't. Actually most of them don't I think. Its sort of hard to tell sometimes when you've been hit.

I try to OOCly find ways to let pc criminals off the hook if I can.

[timb]

  You see groups of people moving and you move along with them.  To prying eyes and authorities, they generally view you as "part of the group."  With a mastered hide skill, you're using your surroundings to your advantage, wherever you might be.

This is why it's good the game has no city type camo. It would be so weird to see someone decked out in multi-thousand sid gear just part of the group of day laborers, blending his way down the street together.

Who says the game has no city camo?

City hide is not exclusively blending in with crowds, that is but one function of the skill. it can also be hiding in the shadows, hiding behind obstructions, etc. And any existing city camo in game surely has an mdesc which indicates as much.

I may or may not know this, find out I.C.           Anyways, when I've tried to play this type of role I've always thought about it as the blending into the crowd thing. I really don't see how someone could convince them self that standing around in the Gaj (in gear worthy of the 1%) that they justify their hiding in the shadows based on code alone. For the P.C. does not live on code alone but by every word that comes from the R.P..

[Suhuy]

This is why it's good the game has no city type camo. It would be so weird to see someone decked out in multi-thousand sid gear just part of the group of day laborers, blending his way down the street together.

Who says the game has no city camo?

City hide is not exclusively blending in with crowds, that is but one function of the skill. it can also be hiding in the shadows, hiding behind obstructions, etc. And any existing city camo in game surely has an mdesc which indicates as much.

I may or may not know this, find out I.C.           Anyways, when I've tried to play this type of role I've always thought about it as the blending into the crowd thing. I really don't see how someone could convince them self that standing around in the Gaj (in gear worthy of the 1%) that they justify their hiding in the shadows based on code alone. For the P.C. does not live on code alone but by every word that comes from the R.P..

Naturally, this is where the player's discretion, common sense and fairness comes in to play. When hiding it is up the the player (and sometimes the code if the room has hide restrictions) to determine where and how they are hiding. When I said that it is not always blending in with the crowd, I meant exactly that. Sometimes. I certainly did not say never. Your example of the Gaj would be a perfect scenario where the player would RP it as blending in with the crowd - in which case whatever type of camo being worn really is quite pointless. If you're deep in the alleys of the Labyrinth being chased down by someone bigger than you, there's a good chance your hide skill is indeed hiding in shadows or otherwise using some sort of cover. And any existing camouflage designed for the latter activity very clearly takes this into consideration as evidenced by its mdesc.

[Bluefae]

something something file a player complaint something something the code is the way it is something guild with scan something apartment something abuse of the code based on a case by case something

Well played.

     *laugh*  M.T., you just saved about half-a-dozen posts, possibly a flame or two, and plenty of angst.  Strong work!

[Bluefae]

     One of the most egregious offenders of "hide-as-invisibility" is the iconic "single, bare room" scenario.  How about some application of scan that allows it to "build" over repeated uses, provided you don't move from the square?  Or, barring that, a new skill (the way watch was added) that everyone has, that starts off with a terrible percentage but can again slowly accrue each time you use it vs. hide.  This could simulate a slow, deliberate search of a limited area.  This new skill, call it 'inspect', could never raise normally, the same way 'analyze' is frozen.  That way it's not "super scan".  The delay on it could be hideous, there could be a stamina expenditure slapped on it, etc.

     Just a thought for how to remedy the worst of the coded abuses for hide.  With a true master, most other scenarios in which hide gets used seem feasible to me (think Batman-esque talent). 

[Jenred]

    One of the most egregious offenders of "hide-as-invisibility" is the iconic "single, bare room" scenario.  How about some application of scan that allows it to "build" over repeated uses, provided you don't move from the square?  Or, barring that, a new skill (the way watch was added) that everyone has, that starts off with a terrible percentage but can again slowly accrue each time you use it vs. hide.  This could simulate a slow, deliberate search of a limited area.  This new skill, call it 'inspect', could never raise normally, the same way 'analyze' is frozen.  That way it's not "super scan".  The delay on it could be hideous, there could be a stamina expenditure slapped on it, etc.

    Just a thought for how to remedy the worst of the coded abuses for hide.  With a true master, most other scenarios in which hide gets used seem feasible to me (think Batman-esque talent).  

As has been stated in the past by Nyr and other staff: there is no present movement to make large changes the code to prevent abuses that are relatively infrequent. As it is now, the "single bare room" hiding/stealing/whatever is an abuse. If you feel that someone is abusing it, report them. There are much more pressing things I'd say then doing an overhaul of the hide/sneak/scan code to prevent the occasionally infrequent times someone abuses hide/steal in a room where it would be illogical that they'd be unseen.

Using the other thread:

I don't think we're going to change a system entirely because of an anecdote about one person that may have done what you're talking about. 

And anyway, either you were:

the twink that did this if it did happen (shame on you)
the other player that got tracked if it did happen (no player complaint filed, but then again you'd have no idea how they tracked you)
a bystander that heard about it or knew about it (no player complaint filed)

[Morrolan]

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.
You notice someone has their hand in their pocket.
You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

Look

You don't have scan so you don't see anyone.

You say, "Hey stop that I'll kill you."

[chopped for brevity]

You say ooc: "Seriously, this is dumb."

You notice someone has their hand in your pocket.

A short figure in a dark hooded cloak has departed from the land of Zalanthas.

Based on a true story.

It would be time for a quick >wish all I would like to flag the idiot harassing me for code abuse of the stealth code...but I cannot see him. Please take a peek for me?  Thanks much, The FishStroker

[Bluefae]

As has been stated in the past by Nyr and other staff: there is no present movement to make large changes the code to prevent abuses that are relatively infrequent. As it is now, the "single bare room" hiding/stealing/whatever is an abuse. If you feel that someone is abusing it, report them. There are much more pressing things I'd say then doing an overhaul of the hide/sneak/scan code to prevent the occasionally infrequent times someone abuses hide/steal in a room where it would be illogical that they'd be unseen.

    Hi, Jenred!  *waves*  I'm Bluefae.  I don't flame people on this board, rarely argue, and try my darndest to be constructive.  I understand the above.  I only wanted to contribute to the conversation, and I thought this was a neat idea.  Maybe in five or ten years, this will be looked at (that's not sarcasm, and yes, I've been playing long enough that time-frames like that don't daunt me).

    I will say that I have not, personally, ever been the target of what I felt was "hide abuse".  I suppose I can also say that in eight years of play, I've never filed a player complaint for IC activity.  I've found the quality of role-play on Arm. to be head-and-shoulders more conscientious then other MUDs I've tried.  

[Rhyden]

As has been stated in the past by Nyr and other staff: there is no present movement to make large changes *to the code for preventing abuses that are relatively infrequent. As it is now, the "single bare room" hiding/stealing/whatever is an abuse. If you feel that someone is abusing it, report them. There are much more pressing things I'd say then doing an overhaul of the hide/sneak/scan code to prevent the occasionally infrequent times someone abuses hide/steal in a room where it would be illogical that they'd be unseen.

    Hi, Jenred!  *waves*  I'm Bluefae.  I don't flame people on this board, rarely argue, and try my darndest to be constructive.  I understand the above.  I only wanted to contribute to the conversation, and I thought this was a neat idea.  Maybe in five or ten years, this will be looked at (that's not sarcasm, and yes, I've been playing long enough that time-frames like that don't daunt me).

I don't think he's flaming. He's just reiterating the staff's consensus that there will no longer be large code changes. (see: wagons and more wagons!)

Still a very cool idea, Bluefae. I like the thought of a progressive scan which eventually finds hidden people in the room the longer you scan. It's like searching every nook and cranny.

[Nyr]

I don't think he's flaming. He's just reiterating the staff's consensus that there will no longer be large code changes.

Not quite true.

If an issue presents itself and the issue is abuse of code, we have at least a couple of courses of action.  We can alter the code.  We also can deal with the abuse.  Okay, a look at the proposed coded changes brings to mind a few things:  sweeping and pie-in-the-sky wants in addition to the "fix" provided.  This usually means a large amount of code work.  Okay, so we take a step back and look at the offense:  it's people that are abusing the code.  Well, the reported instances of it are low, plus we are usually aware of it.  It really seems like it would be easier to deal with the abuse directly.  A code change could be considered when it is accompanied with other changes to nearby systems.

So no--we have not ever said that there will no longer be large code changes.  That's bogus.

I definitely have said that it oftentimes doesn't make sense to make huge changes to the code just to fix a problem that is barely eking out an existence.

[Rhyden]

That is understandable. I should have specified between large, creation-type code changes and abuse-type code changes. Apologies. And thanks for the clarification.

[Jenred]

As has been stated in the past by Nyr and other staff: there is no present movement to make large changes the code to prevent abuses that are relatively infrequent. As it is now, the "single bare room" hiding/stealing/whatever is an abuse. If you feel that someone is abusing it, report them. There are much more pressing things I'd say then doing an overhaul of the hide/sneak/scan code to prevent the occasionally infrequent times someone abuses hide/steal in a room where it would be illogical that they'd be unseen.

    Hi, Jenred!  *waves*  I'm Bluefae.  I don't flame people on this board, rarely argue, and try my darndest to be constructive.  I understand the above.  I only wanted to contribute to the conversation, and I thought this was a neat idea.  Maybe in five or ten years, this will be looked at (that's not sarcasm, and yes, I've been playing long enough that time-frames like that don't daunt me).

    I will say that I have not, personally, ever been the target of what I felt was "hide abuse".  I suppose I can also say that in eight years of play, I've never filed a player complaint for IC activity.  I've found the quality of role-play on Arm. to be head-and-shoulders more conscientious then other MUDs I've tried.  

Sorry if my message came off wrong. I'm not trying to say that it isn't a good, valuable, or needed idea, just alot of times people get into large discussions about code only to be reminded of the position that I provided.

Because it seems that alot of times people tend to blame the code for things that are really twinky players. And players on the same note try to hide behind the code like "well it allowed me to do this!". The point is that in situations of abuse the default response should be to report the player, not just try to rethink the code (though in some cases it definitely should be).

[Vwest]

Is the plant skill a stand-alone, or based of another skill, ie; steal or slight of hand?

Looks like the right kind of thread for the question.

[RogueGunslinger]

Is the plant skill a stand-alone, or based of another skill, ie; steal or slight of hand?

Looks like the right kind of thread for the question.

It's the steal skill. Leveling plant will level steal and vice versa.

[CravenMadness]

It's actually surprisingly easy to sneak up and drift behind folks in populated areas...

Used to do this in high school all the time, we just didn't have a name for it.  It's called Ghosting now.  It's a thing.

Ever try to see how close you could get to someone while walking in a mall?  If anything it's easier to 'stay off the radar' in heavily populated areas or high traffic areas, not harder.

But yea, I think the thread breaker is the whole 'Killin' shit with bone swords' ... It's a game.  We're lucky there's difference between City and Wilderness hide/sneak.

I can think of perhaps one instance of 'Where'd that fucker I was just looking at, alone in the middle of the road, go?'  ... But then it was just a matter of hunt, and then poison'd arrow... That'll learn 'em.

[X-D]

Besides, It can be fun.

I was playing a certain wilderness PC a while back, came on somebody...shadowed them...left, walked back in so they saw me coming.

There was a short exchange, in the middle of which they emoted then hid...and so did I... and snuck away...He walks all his moves out and arrives where he was to hide out from my PC...mine pokes him and says.."Did that work how you wanted?" "Now let's see that pack."

[TheBadSeed]

It's actually surprisingly easy to sneak up and drift behind folks in populated areas...

It's funny, I make a game of this at work. It really takes no concentrated effort at all to sneak up on someone, just a feel for where their eyes are headed, and where the lights might cast a shadow.

[HavokBlue]

Sneaking up on folks is easy. I too do it all the time. Depending on your environment, it's all a matter of knowing how and where to move.

Hiding is a different matter entirely, but when I'm in a situation in-game where one minute, someone is there, and the next, they're missing, I just write it off like I was talking to Batman and he disappeared when I looked away for a second.

[Bushranger]

Sneaking up on folks is easy. I too do it all the time. Depending on your environment, it's all a matter of knowing how and where to move.

Hiding is a different matter entirely, but when I'm in a situation in-game where one minute, someone is there, and the next, they're missing, I just write it off like I was talking to Batman and he disappeared when I looked away for a second.

Damnit, for some reason I'm now imagining there will be a spate of applications that all start off "I'm Merch-man!"