Nuances of Tuluk v. Allanak - Derail

[Akaramu]

.. I'm really glad for all the posters that are finding their vibe in Tuluk, that say it is by no means a nicer place than Allanak, that there -are- things going on and that one merely needs to look for them, but even so, no amount of poking around in whatever fashion has ever had me come across it. If you're enjoying things, that's good, but I don't think that having good RP being as inaccessible as this is a good thing in the end.

That's the main, and most important difference for me. I don't get Tuluk, and I could never figure out how to get into the behind the scenes action, especially as an offpeaker (perhaps this is why Patuk is having the same troubles). In that regard, I find Allanak much more offpeak friendly. And I am reasonably patient, and like to believe I am also reasonably perceptive.

[Patuk]

.. I'm really glad for all the posters that are finding their vibe in Tuluk, that say it is by no means a nicer place than Allanak, that there -are- things going on and that one merely needs to look for them, but even so, no amount of poking around in whatever fashion has ever had me come across it. If you're enjoying things, that's good, but I don't think that having good RP being as inaccessible as this is a good thing in the end.

That's the main, and most important difference for me. I don't get Tuluk, and I could never figure out how to get into the behind the scenes action, especially as an offpeaker (perhaps this is why Patuk is having the same troubles). In that regard, I find Allanak much more offpeak friendly. And I am reasonably patient, and like to believe I am also reasonably perceptive.

I've wondered about that a number of times as well; certainly being unable to play during the 'right' times doesn't help much. Still, until I see it for myself the 'it's there you just can't see it' argument is going to remain unconvincing for me. If there's people who enjoy the north more than the south, that's great, but I really have yet to see why that would be.

[Marc]

.. I'm really glad for all the posters that are finding their vibe in Tuluk, that say it is by no means a nicer place than Allanak, that there -are- things going on and that one merely needs to look for them, but even so, no amount of poking around in whatever fashion has ever had me come across it. If you're enjoying things, that's good, but I don't think that having good RP being as inaccessible as this is a good thing in the end.

That's the main, and most important difference for me. I don't get Tuluk, and I could never figure out how to get into the behind the scenes action, especially as an offpeaker (perhaps this is why Patuk is having the same troubles). In that regard, I find Allanak much more offpeak friendly. And I am reasonably patient, and like to believe I am also reasonably perceptive.

I've wondered about that a number of times as well; certainly being unable to play during the 'right' times doesn't help much. Still, until I see it for myself the 'it's there you just can't see it' argument is going to remain unconvincing for me. If there's people who enjoy the north more than the south, that's great, but I really have yet to see why that would be.

+1 Allanak.

People can find good RP everywhere so we'll ignore the better RP/scene bits.

The problem with Tuluk is it's so damned contrived.  Allanak is a mix of all kinds of ready examples:  Rome, Darksun, Egypt etc.  Brutal.  Bloody.  Intrigues inside a system as old as the world itself.

Tuluk is some green paradise full of silk wearing sycophants all blindly loyal to Dr Xavier that just happened to sprout 1000 layers of detail when it rebirthed itself (the entire system of patrons/striasiri was omitted in the old Tuluk). It's a society that promotes people keeping things secret and behind closed doors (which IMHO promotes OOC coordination and contact not to mention keeping it hidden from new players.  joy!).  Where it's unspoken-common knowledge that certain parties know everything that happens.  In other words: You will be caught.  You need to be involved before you can try to get involved.  Joy.  Everyone has to be a social climber because the PC world is too small and without contacts you cannot succeed because you will be caught.

Tuluk makes Allanak look poor.  The stores are better and more plentiful.  Starting gear is cheaper (not talking the new stores).  High-end stuff is all over the place.  More and better purchasers.  It feels like I'm playing in Chicago while Allanak is Rio.  Even the poor of Tuluk are well to do.  Nothing else is represented by PC's because the environment bleeds coins.  Tuluk fucks the economy.

Wildlife is "better".  Won't go into detail but the "lush and vibrant north" has a shitton more represented and documented wildlife.  PC actions are the only thing that can prevent Tuluk from having the best hunting/scavenging bar none.

Tuluk needs a make over.  It's too damn proper and upper-class.  I need another curvy tuluki in silks like I need a hole in the head.  I thought this was a low-tech, low-fantasy world :-(

Tuluk=easy mode

Allanak=Armageddon

(shit is pretty easy in Allanak for experienced players too but Tuluks environment is pretty easy for everyone)

[Reiloth]

Well, that was a whole lot of vague half-truths...Some people prefer to play in Tuluk, others in Allanak. I doubt this thread is long for the world, as many have come before it, and perished.

I don't find Tuluk contrived, I find it brutal and scary.

I don't see Tuluk as a fairy happy-go-lucky let's-all-hold-hands fantasy world. I see it as a place where you are only afforded one mistake.

I think people view the world as they want to behold it. Tuluk, to lots of people, is just a silk-wearing lumberjack paradise. But, if you dig just a little deeper, there's a whole wealth of RP that some people (like me) find more interesting than the banal brutality of Allanak.

People play in Tuluk for a reason -- Some people avoid it like the plague. That's fine. We're all playing the same game, and we all have different tastes.

Tuluk is "easy mode" if you are a coin-obsessed hunter that plays into the economic grind (Hunt X, Skin X, Sell X Parts, Craft X Parts, rinse repeat). Sure, that's easy in Tuluk, and hard in Allanak. I guess I don't view 'the grind' as the hard part about ArmageddonMUD.

The layered RP in Tuluk provides for some pretty wicked opportunities, that sometimes I find plays into the theme of "Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal" way better than Allanak.

I won't bash on Allanak, but I find a lot of the plots that arise in Allanak revolve around love/lovemaking/sex/sexual relationships/violence/more violence/dumb drunks, and (while the same could be said of Tuluk, sometimes, more so), I find a whole other layer to Tuluk that isn't that, and more enjoyable to me.

[Riev]

TL;DR

Tuluk is for the Art Majors of the world. If you have to ask, you'll never know. You either "get it, or play somewhere else"

Allanak is for the rest. The ones that don't WANT to "get it". They don't "understand it", and want to just "do it".




I think most perturbing, are the people who are saying "Look. Tuluk is awesome. I play Tuluk. If you don't like Tuluk, you just don't GET IT BRAH."

[Akaramu]

I would enjoy playing in Tuluk if I could "get it", I'm sure. I don't hate Tuluk, I am just frustrated by not getting it, and not knowing how to go about getting it. Just playing there didn't work.

[Cutthroat]

Tuluk is for the Art Majors of the world. If you have to ask, you'll never know.

I'm sure a few players would be happy to help people break into what Tuluk is about.

My advice to those who want to "get" Tuluk would be to do one or more of these things:

- Be a citizen. Get the star tattoo on your hands and the band on your neck or above. May seem obvious to some, but it's important.
- If you think you'll be tempted to play solo, play a character in Tuluk that isn't primarily a hunter-gatherer. This will force you to try and find more fun inside the walls. Though you can certainly find fun inside the walls as a hunter-gatherer as well.
- Play someone who aspires to be one or more of the following: a bard, a licensed assassin, a licensed thief, a Legions soldier (or other type of templar employee) or a Noble House employee. Those are all roles that approach that layer where things move and shift.
- The Akai Sjir might be an interesting option for those that want to get into the mix. Sure, they're a tribe of stoneworkers, but they're still elves. So they must be up to no good... right?
- Use patronage. It's one of the biggest differences Tuluk has from Allanak. It isn't as permanent or restrictive as employment. Best of all, nobles and templars are supposed to be fine with your character approaching them with a patronage offer.
- You don't need to be a hunting or bardic partisan, though those are two prominent examples in the Tuluk docs. What a partisan can offer is almost infinite - so too what a patron could offer in return.
- Be patient. Things aren't always happening right at the moment; there are as many low and high points of activity in Tuluk as there is in Allanak.
- Live for a couple of weeks, at least. Like in Allanak, you need to prove you're worth someone else's time.
- Off-peakers will have it harder, like anywhere else, but sometimes there are off-peak leaders and clans available.

[Riev]

Tuluk is for the Art Majors of the world. If you have to ask, you'll never know.

I'm sure a few players would be happy to help people break into what Tuluk is about.

My advice to those who want to "get" Tuluk would be to do one or more of these things:

- Be a citizen. Get the star tattoo on your hands and the band on your neck or above. May seem obvious to some, but it's important.
- If you think you'll be tempted to play solo, play a character in Tuluk that isn't primarily a hunter-gatherer. This will force you to try and find more fun inside the walls. Though you can certainly find fun inside the walls as a hunter-gatherer as well.
- Play someone who aspires to be one or more of the following: a bard, a licensed assassin, a licensed thief, a Legions soldier (or other type of templar employee) or a Noble House employee. Those are all roles that approach that layer where things move and shift.
- The Akai Sjir might be an interesting option for those that want to get into the mix. Sure, they're a tribe of stoneworkers, but they're still elves. So they must be up to no good... right?
- Use patronage. It's one of the biggest differences Tuluk has from Allanak. It isn't as permanent or restrictive as employment. Best of all, nobles and templars are supposed to be fine with your character approaching them with a patronage offer.
- You don't need to be a hunting or bardic partisan, though those are two prominent examples in the Tuluk docs. What a partisan can offer is almost infinite - so too what a patron could offer in return.
- Be patient. Things aren't always happening right at the moment; there are as many low and high points of activity in Tuluk as there is in Allanak.
- Live for a couple of weeks, at least. Like in Allanak, you need to prove you're worth someone else's time.
- Off-peakers will have it harder, like anywhere else, but sometimes there are off-peak leaders and clans available.

+1 for not just saying something elitist about Tuluk. All good ideas, especially

- You don't need to be a hunting or bardic partisan, though those are two prominent examples in the Tuluk docs. What a partisan can offer is almost infinite - so too what a patron could offer in return.

[musashi]

Or if you want to be in fear of your life every waking moment, playing a mage. Seriously.

There is an assumption that "You will be caught!" and it's true in that ... you know ... eventual sense. But from personal experience it's very possible to play a hidden magicker in the north who climbs the social ladder like anyone else. I've had something like 4 mages in my time who were Tuluki born, 3 of whom stayed in the north their whole life. Only 1 got "caught" and it wasn't even due to PC action. I was just a newb about the way magick interacted with the crim-code.

TL;DR: The "they know your every waking move and thought so being a criminal of any kind who doesn't have consent from the powers that be" is propaganda yo 

[Riya OniSenshi]

Or is it...

[RogueGunslinger]

Or is it...

Don't worry about Musashi, he's still a noob.

[Malken]

*this reply was mysteriously edited*

[BleakOne]

My very first character had brief contact with some people and learned some very interesting things about Tuluk. Scary shit.

[Red Ranger]

So, after reading the posts from the people that don't like Tuluk, I'm now confused.  Does Tuluk suck because it's easy mode where everything is handed to you on a platter... or does it suck because it's hard mode where only elitist Art Majors can get in on the action?

[RogueGunslinger]

So, after reading the posts from the people that don't like Tuluk, I'm now confused.  Does Tuluk suck because it's easy mode where everything is handed to you on a platter... or does it suck because it's hard mode where only elitist Art Majors can get in on the action?

Everyone knows blanket-statement, is why blanket-statement is true.

[Gilgamesh]

I've played this game for less than a year. I've played in both cities. But mostly Allanak. As a new player, Tuluk is not easy mode and Allanak is not hard mode. Both are pretty much the same thing with a different flavor. Hard mode is the Labyrinth.

[Dar]

Labyrinth is ... probably the easiest mode ever. You can be subtle up to your ears, or brutal as a raging mul, both extremes have a place in rinth. Everything is accepted in the labyrinth if you work enough at it, and nothing protects you from an "eventual" death if someone works enough at it.

I'd like to think I've played characters that have been on the shit list of the 'omniscient powers that be', as propaganda claims them to be and did not get dissapeared. So it 'is' possible. Unfortunately, it is ... pretty much impossible to be all that and be a loner at the same time, ever since the flooding of UnderTuluk anyway. So if you're going to make some enemies amongst powers that be, you 'must' have allies as well, or you will die. Is that really such a bad thing? That it requires more then your skills in stealth or combat, to survive the choices you make?

I dont really know about this whole subtlety thing. Maybe I'm not suitable for much subtlety, but to me ... the difference between a naki and a subtle tuluk range somewhere between, "I am soo going to fuck you up, you grimy kankfucker," and "Hrmm. Today is not one of your best days."

Tuluk is wondrous in theme, culture, methods, various other nicities, but unfortunately, for me ... it rarely gets as much of a rise out of me, then some things that tend to happen in Nak. I havent played in Tuluk for about half a year now, so I do not know how things are right now. But when I did, there were some ... very ... very awesome players there, very impressive characters. And I feel sad that I didnt get around to playing with them more. But the 'arena' of where that gameplay is to be held, just ... doesnt excite me somehow.

Thinking things through, I've never played any roles that were part of some specific clan, some specific idea, etc, except akai sjir a few years ago. Most of my tuluki roles ended up being to the poor, desperate-ish, downrotten spectre. So maybe playing in a clan and adopting its goals and ideas, instead of masterminding something of my own again is the right approach to enjoying Tuluk properly.


... I actually called my 'elven' akai sjir character as something different then the downrotten ones. And I was correct too. "head shake"

[Dalmeth]

Everyone knows blanket-statement, is why blanket-statement is true.

In all honesty, he's right.  The easy mode/hard mode comparisons are not very valid. People live and die in Tuluk as much they do in Allanak.

Tuluk is starkly different in that a person working for a noble house can look no different from anyone else.  A person of great importance to the Templarate can look just like an average hunter.  No discrete affiliations needed, because they'll generally have a history of service among the other powers of the city.

And that's the heart of it, right there.  In Tuluk, the administrators are paying attention, so a bit more of a show is demanded.  That's the only barrier to entry in Tuluk play.

[greasygemo]

Tuluk indulges the two-faced, rumor spreading, making people disappear casually without having to get my hands dirty, side of me, and I find that exceedingly fun.
Making 'friends' in Tuluk is tantamount to growing your own personal spynet, I think the most fun I've had thus far was a direct result of this kind of thing.
But, by God, it's hard if you can't type quickly enough to way and talk at the same time.... fortunately, I work for a call center. Mad typing skillz FTW. 

Could be biased, have only dabbled in 'nak. Got bored each time. Met few people. Didn't see much insanity. Maybe they were all bad weeks. I dunno.

[Akaramu]

Tuluk indulges the two-faced, rumor spreading, making people disappear casually without having to get my hands dirty, side of me, and I find that exceedingly fun.
Making 'friends' in Tuluk is tantamount to growing your own personal spynet

Allanak is the same, really. Not everything is public execution, there is a lot of two-facedness and rumors spreading, and friends or contacts are personal spynets everywhere in the Known.

[Scarecrow]

They seem pretty the same to me. You guys are over-thinking this stuff.

[musashi]

In Allanak at least the nobles and the templars can mudsex 

[Akaramu]

In Allanak at least the nobles and the templars can mudsex 

Right. They aren't as cranky due to years upon years of not getting any. 

[boog]

I dunno ... I just have to say, between the two city-states, I feel like I'm far less judged for being overly flowery (but not in a puffy, froofy way) for the way I emote and that people are actually more likely to sit and roleplay and wait for you to respond in Tuluk. In Allanak, I have to be fast-paced and yes, a bit more 'gritty'. I don't mind it. But, other than that, I don't find the two places that much different - I love them both. In fact, I love every area I've been to in game.

[My 2 sids]

Tuluk indulges the two-faced, rumor spreading, making people disappear casually without having to get my hands dirty, side of me, and I find that exceedingly fun.
Making 'friends' in Tuluk is tantamount to growing your own personal spynet

Allanak is the same, really. Not everything is public execution, there is a lot of two-facedness and rumors spreading, and friends or contacts are personal spynets everywhere in the Known.

I fear that when both cities start to feel similar, it takes away from both experiences.  Granted, people are going to be people the Known over; but, the cultures of each city-states are somewhat different.

Tuluk:  Independent PCs
I'm not talking about independently wealthy PCs!  Rather, the entire city-state is a mash-up of individual and egocentric groups who will join the group so long as it suits them and their interest.  They build a culture of agreed upon pleasantries to give outsiders an image of strength, but the inside joke is that is really just the picture of culture they wish to project - they themselves realize the true Tuluki culture in which everyone is out for themselves.   

When we talk about Tuluk being subtle it shouldn't just be >emote nod  instead of  >emote vigorously shakes his head up and down  From a game/ player base perspective this is where double-agents, spies, back-stabbers should be.  Playing more of a "Person vs. Person" type game.


Allanak:  Clanned PCs
I'm not talking everyone joining a house.  Rather, its that is well established and accepted that fate has told the PC "here is your slot in life".  It is much more "put other's needs first" because any shift in the stack-of-cards known as the hierarchy threatens to bring down everything.  That is, the various groups depend upon one another to play their part.  When we talk about harshness, we really mean transparency - everyone knows exactly who everyone else is and what part they play.  There is a sort of freedom that comes from knowing "I only have to do my part, others will do their part" 

Thus, from a game/player base perspective this is where those who wish to play to their skills (not twink, but let your dung sweep be a dung sweep  or your house guard be a guard) should be.   Playing more of a "Person vs. nature" type game.