The T'zai Byn as a Newbie Clan

[Jingo]

It can be done. Though its a drag at times.

However, Spec-apping an elf into the clan with some running ability should be possible.

[Maker]

There's been at least one elf sergeant in the Byn.

Played an elf sergeant in the Byn, so maybe two?

[ShaLeah]

When I played there was an elf Lieutenant.

[Marauder Moe]

I was thinking of one back in like 2002.  But yeah, rare but not unheard of.

Still a pain in the ass to go on missions with. 

[My 2 sids]

Personally, I hate the idea of the Byn being the "newbie" clan.   I think because it's so OOC jarring.

ICly it is there to make money.   ICly it is compiled of thugs and such just this side of of the law, and isn't particularly honorable.  ICly a lot of its contracts and RPTs focus on fighting/dying 1st.  And so it feels pushed to me when I see everything trying to push new PCs (players) into the Byn, hen they run to interact and recruit Bynners into their houses, or when runners are given (or forced into being given because a player is making a true merc PC) a bit of an IC break because they are OOC learning.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be a clan or way to help ease new players into the game.  And I know players who play in Byn are great about showing PCs the ropes.  But, I just don't think it is good to continue with something that makes little IC sense because of OOC tradition. 

[ShaLeah]

I probably wouldn't be here of I had not been guided to the Byn while a newbie.

[Patuk]

I'm pretty sure that runners who've had more experience don't get the leeway that much.. And I know for a fact that you get a mildly easier time if you're new and are in a clan not the Byn.

[kayza]

Personally, I hate the idea of the Byn being the "newbie" clan.   I think because it's so OOC jarring.

I agree.

Find me the staff written doc that says the Byn is a newbie clan.
I can't help but feel when I hear people say its a newbie clan they are trying to take a shot at them but still has an escape plan if someone calls them out on it.

The Byn is just a good clan and most good clans are perfect for newer players.


EDIT:
I stayed and never had a character in the Byn.

[Clavis]

there are ways to make a c-elf keep up with a troupe of mounted riders. I know of one c-elf that could just bout keep up with any ig mounts. So it's  not nearly as bad as many people think if properly planned.

[Malken]

INDIE_RANGER_IN_GRASSLANDS_WITH_VET_FRIEND(s) is the best newbie friendly clan ever.

[ShaLeah]

INDIE_RANGER_IN_GRASSLANDS_WITH_VET_FRIEND(s) is the best newbie friendly clan ever.

Ranger being the key and operative word. Heh.

Might even go as far as saying VET_FRIEND is the key.

[solera]

I can't think of a better place IC to put hopeless noobs.

[hyzhenhok]

Personally, I hate the idea of the Byn being the "newbie" clan.   I think because it's so OOC jarring.

ICly it is there to make money.   ICly it is compiled of thugs and such just this side of of the law, and isn't particularly honorable.  ICly a lot of its contracts and RPTs focus on fighting/dying 1st.  And so it feels pushed to me when I see everything trying to push new PCs (players) into the Byn, hen they run to interact and recruit Bynners into their houses, or when runners are given (or forced into being given because a player is making a true merc PC) a bit of an IC break because they are OOC learning.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be a clan or way to help ease new players into the game.  And I know players who play in Byn are great about showing PCs the ropes.  But, I just don't think it is good to continue with something that makes little IC sense because of OOC tradition.  

You be wrong, bro. For one reason:

The Byn is the only clan in the game that it ICly & according to the docs makes sense that they would hire unskilled commoners. It makes perfect IC sense that an unskilled commoner with no connections who wants to escape menial labor would join the Byn. And they are the only clan in the game that will literally hire everybody.

It seems to me a much bigger IC break when merchant houses pick up completely unskilled commoners as hunters or soldiers when employees of these Houses are among the wealthiest commoners in the Known and every independent hunter and mercenary would love to be hired by them. Militia I can see grabbing unskilled commoners, but a lot of them probably get drubbed out during training and even then the hiring pool is limited racially/by citizenship. But the elite soldier Noble Houses? Again, probably should not be hiring unskilled. I understand leaders can be desperate for warm bodies so this is something regularly overlooked, but that's something with much stronger ground of IC complaint than unskilled commoners being directed towards the Byn.

[evilcabbage]

And they are the only clan in the game that will literally hire everybody almost everybody depending on what sergeants are playing.

Still, it is a good newbie clan. I didn't start Byn, my first char ran into a Red Fang and I got my code lessons from one of those guys. Welcome to Armageddon at its most extreme <.<

[kayza]

Personally, I hate the idea of the Byn being the "newbie" clan.   I think because it's so OOC jarring.

ICly it is there to make money.   ICly it is compiled of thugs and such just this side of of the law, and isn't particularly honorable.  ICly a lot of its contracts and RPTs focus on fighting/dying 1st.  And so it feels pushed to me when I see everything trying to push new PCs (players) into the Byn, hen they run to interact and recruit Bynners into their houses, or when runners are given (or forced into being given because a player is making a true merc PC) a bit of an IC break because they are OOC learning.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be a clan or way to help ease new players into the game.  And I know players who play in Byn are great about showing PCs the ropes.  But, I just don't think it is good to continue with something that makes little IC sense because of OOC tradition.  

You be wrong, bro. For one reason:

The Byn is the only clan in the game that it ICly & according to the docs makes sense that they would hire unskilled commoners. It makes perfect IC sense that an unskilled commoner with no connections who wants to escape menial labor would join the Byn. And they are the only clan in the game that will literally hire everybody.

It seems to me a much bigger IC break when merchant houses pick up completely unskilled commoners as hunters or soldiers when employees of these Houses are among the wealthiest commoners in the Known and every independent hunter and mercenary would love to be hired by them. Militia I can see grabbing unskilled commoners, but a lot of them probably get drubbed out during training and even then the hiring pool is limited racially/by citizenship. But the elite soldier Noble Houses? Again, probably should not be hiring unskilled. I understand leaders can be desperate for warm bodies so this is something regularly overlooked, but that's something with much stronger ground of IC complaint than unskilled commoners being directed towards the Byn.

No

But I guess it comes down to what are you defining as "unskilled commoners" 

[Malken]

No

But I guess it comes down to what are you defining as "unskilled commoners" 

30 years old assassins and rangers who fight like they've just picked up a sword for the first time in their life, duh. 

[Dalmeth]

30 years old assassins and rangers who fight like they've just picked up a sword for the first time in their life, duh. 

I know the matter of starting skills is a sore point, but I think the issue is best simplified as being able to do something that people might actually value.

[kayza]

Fresh warrior types only seem like "unskilled commoners" based on who they are fighting.  To played warriors sure they seem weak.  But to non-combatants they are still instant death.

Unless you are saying unskilled because you are a pickpocket trying to be a warrior.

A newbie pickpocket's best place to be in is a cell with a Templar.  As that is where they are gonna end up soon anyways.

[Cutthroat]

Personally, I hate the idea of the Byn being the "newbie" clan.   I think because it's so OOC jarring.

ICly it is there to make money.   ICly it is compiled of thugs and such just this side of of the law, and isn't particularly honorable.  ICly a lot of its contracts and RPTs focus on fighting/dying 1st.  And so it feels pushed to me when I see everything trying to push new PCs (players) into the Byn, hen they run to interact and recruit Bynners into their houses, or when runners are given (or forced into being given because a player is making a true merc PC) a bit of an IC break because they are OOC learning.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be a clan or way to help ease new players into the game.  And I know players who play in Byn are great about showing PCs the ropes.  But, I just don't think it is good to continue with something that makes little IC sense because of OOC tradition.  

You be wrong, bro. For one reason:

The Byn is the only clan in the game that it ICly & according to the docs makes sense that they would hire unskilled commoners. It makes perfect IC sense that an unskilled commoner with no connections who wants to escape menial labor would join the Byn. And they are the only clan in the game that will literally hire everybody.

It seems to me a much bigger IC break when merchant houses pick up completely unskilled commoners as hunters or soldiers when employees of these Houses are among the wealthiest commoners in the Known and every independent hunter and mercenary would love to be hired by them. Militia I can see grabbing unskilled commoners, but a lot of them probably get drubbed out during training and even then the hiring pool is limited racially/by citizenship. But the elite soldier Noble Houses? Again, probably should not be hiring unskilled. I understand leaders can be desperate for warm bodies so this is something regularly overlooked, but that's something with much stronger ground of IC complaint than unskilled commoners being directed towards the Byn.

The Byn is a good clan for new players but it isn't the only good clan for new players. That said, it isn't the only good clan for new characters, either. Not many clans have official documentation defining how skilled a recruit must be (certainly not any I've been in). Based on what goes on in game, it makes more sense to say that the "recruit" rank of any particular hiring clan is reserved for anyone who hasn't proven themselves capable of achieving the next rank yet. If you're a Byn runner, that usually simply means you've been in for less than a year, haven't been excessively insubordinate, etc.. For other clans, the demands are different. The nature of the recruit/runner rank is that there aren't a lot of prerequisites to enter it, only to move up from it. That doesn't necessarily make other clans less newbie-friendly - they just offer a different environment in which to learn the game, so that a new player who wants to play a mercenary, can play a mercenary - but the new player interested in crafting can play a crafter, the new player interested in playing a rogue can play a rogue, and so on - and still be able to learn the basics of their role by following a leader PC able to offer guidance to the character, and by extension, the newbie.

[Dar]

If an employee of House Salarr does something stupid that is 'mildly' insultive to my haughty, corrupt, whatever some kind of high up position type person, I ... might strike back in one way or another, or use it as leverage to somehow bend Salarr to my will.

If a Bynner runner does it to me, I probably wouldnt give too many shits about it. Because ... seriously, what can you really expect from those idjits, who are just one step away from rinthi thugs, beggars, or simple people. That is the rep the Byn has. And that makes it a wondrous reason why its a great clan for newbies to join. Newbies ... screw up sometimes, and it's good, and it's fine, and in fact it's quiet wondrous. So while yes, Byn is really influenced by the Sargeants preferences that runs it. They can go from a band of bumbling fools, to an elite unit that outperforms Scorps and Wyverns in discipline and effectiveness. But I still believe that Byn is a great place to send newbies to and I've known at least a number of clearly new players who thrived in the Byn and probably learned to love Arm through Byn.

Personally, I had much more respect to sargeants who hired bumbling fools more then going all elite. Every single house is all about elite. Merchant or Noble.  Elite this, elite that. Pfffth. Byn has more respects for the fact that they are 'not' elites.

[kayza]

It's a great clan that is good for new players.  As is a few others.

But saying it is a newbie clan, is just bad form.   

Why was this topic even started, OP seems to just be trolling.
And I feel like I took the bait.

\-- especially -- winceworthy newbs.

That's my troll proof.

[musashi]

Ourla is of course, a notorious troll.

[Belimedra]

It does present a problem on the reverse end: If you have a clan made up of a lot of newbies and a few seasoned players, guess what happens when you go out on an escort mission? A lot of them die. I think it is where the hesitation at hiring them comes from.

"Hey, wasn't there like... ten of you when we left. I only see four now."
"Ohhh yeah, those guys? They died."
"......"

I personally never played in the Byn myself, and I suppose can still be considered somewhat of a newbie too. Just from my interactions from an outsider perspective, it doesn't seem the place if you want a terribly long-lived character, but it does lend itself to learn coded combat, which is always helpful. I think any clan or group can lend itself to improve someone's RP and knowledge of the game though, so I wouldn't peg any of them as "a newbie clan." Ulitimately, it's being around other players that helps people learn a game

[kayza]

Trolling on the Byn is a sport just using the search can show that.

[Dar]

It does present a problem on the reverse end: If you have a clan made up of a lot of newbies and a few seasoned players, guess what happens when you go out on an escort mission? A lot of them die. I think it is where the hesitation at hiring them comes from.

"Hey, wasn't there like... ten of you when we left. I only see four now."
"Ohhh yeah, those guys? They died."
"......"

I personally never played in the Byn myself, and I suppose can still be considered somewhat of a newbie too. Just from my interactions from an outsider perspective, it doesn't seem the place if you want a terribly long-lived character, but it does lend itself to learn coded combat, which is always helpful. I think any clan or group can lend itself to improve someone's RP and knowledge of the game though, so I wouldn't peg any of them as "a newbie clan." Ultimately, it's being around other players that helps people learn a game

And the problem with that is ... ? Byn is the only 'overt' clan, people actually need to pay to, to join. When Borsail loses a recruit, it's annoying. All that lost investment in time, food, water, and lodging. When Borsail lose a full fledged wyvern, it's a frigging tragedy. When Byn lose a runner, unless he showed some exceptional promise, it's just one big shrug. They've paid for their lodging and food anyway. If they died early enough, Byn might've actually profited from that. At the same time, Byn (usually) sees more action then any other military clan, so needless to say, the danger's greater. That's icly speaking. ooc, I'm sure it's extremely taxing on the sergeants. He spends all these hours teaching the ropes to this newbie and he goes and gets himself killed in the silliest way possible. As a Master of Silliest Deaths myself, I feel great respect for byn sergeants who really stick through it and dont lose heart too early.