We need tobacco.

[Voular]

We need something that is smokable that is not spice or any sort of derivative of it. Tobacco, scrub-leaves, call it whatever. Something with minimal effects, easy to roleplay out - just puffing and having a bitter taste in your mouth.

Am I totally off in thinking this is weird? Why havn't zalanthalans smoked anything else by now? Is EVERYTHING that grows in the world unsmokable? We need cigars and cheap yucky pipe tobacco.

Booze is currently a bit to expensive to really have as a continual habit of intake (unless you're a wealthy PC, but those are minority). We need a habit that is legal in the whole world, widely accepted, doesn't interfere with your state of being to much, that is addictive and that can be made money out of. There is a silly amount of coin to be made out of this.

Do it. Bring it IG.

Ps. I am writing this with a cigar in my mouth. Not biased at all.

[Maso]

Yes.

[BadSkeelz]

I could have sworn I've seen people (i.e. commoners) smoking stuff and not getting their ass beat for it.

[timb]

Or be able to chew betel nut.

[Marc]

Gonna +1 this.

There is plenty of plantlife documented etc.  Making a few of them "rollable" and "smokable" would be pretty cool even if only for cosmetic reasons.  Can RP it now fine, but it's not the same as code supported actions.  Code supported means our PCs are not the only ones in the Known smoking said plant.  Give us Big Tobacco!!!

[Morrolan]

A Kuraci non-spice product?

A Kuraci master-crafter spice-master (family member) would be the way to get this plot moving.

craft paper rugged.man smoke hat into Kuraci Man Ad Campaign

[Maso]

Gonna +1 this.

There is plenty of plantlife documented etc.  Making a few of them "rollable" and "smokable" would be pretty cool even if only for cosmetic reasons.  Can RP it now fine, but it's not the same as code supported actions.  Code supported means our PCs are not the only ones in the Known smoking said plant.  Give us Big Tobacco!!!

I'm not sure if RP'ing it would be fine...since there is no references to a cultural custom for smoking non-spice materials IG at all? I mean...you could just -do- it...but if it's not something people are aware of/used to...then it should actually cause quite a kerfuffle? Especially in a certain southern city?

[Marc]

Gonna +1 this.

There is plenty of plantlife documented etc.  Making a few of them "rollable" and "smokable" would be pretty cool even if only for cosmetic reasons.  Can RP it now fine, but it's not the same as code supported actions.  Code supported means our PCs are not the only ones in the Known smoking said plant.  Give us Big Tobacco!!!

I'm not sure if RP'ing it would be fine...since there is no references to a cultural custom for smoking non-spice materials IG at all? I mean...you could just -do- it...but if it's not something people are aware of/used to...then it should actually cause quite a kerfuffle? Especially in a certain southern city?

Sure could.  You CAN smoke pretty much anything that burns IRL.  Why not in game?  Consequences come in many forms

The trouble would be your interpretation of the effects and that would take staff input.  Handling it with code eliminates conjecture and  creates a reality all PC's can participate in.

[RogueGunslinger]

Find out IC.

[Voular]

Find out IC.

Find what?

There is no tobacco. Nor anything alike it - by quantity or commonness. Don't find out IC this thread. I know there's stuff you can smoke. Nothing like tobacco though, nor are the cultural values around that stuff like tobacco.

Bah, Rogue, bah.

[Marauder Moe]

Why do we need an alternative to spice when we have spice?

[Voular]

Because spice is a drug akin to heroin or weed or cocaine or whatever. It is strong, potent and has a set code-effect you cannot play around. Tobacco does nothing to you, in comparison to spice, would be cheaper and easier to cultivate and because you cannot play a habitual smoker of spice without going broke/dying/having to RP being tweaked out all the fucking time.¨¨

Also read the original post.

[Delirium]

Tobacco should hit your endurance stat.

[Patuk]

Why do we need an alternative to spice when we have spice?

Why do we need an alternative to weed when we have weed?

I'd like seeing tobacco being cultivated somehow, I would. It'd be another notch on my ever-growing Armageddon vice list.

[Marauder Moe]

Perhaps I should rephrase...

Why do we need an alternative to spice when we have spice?

Seems to me that a major effect of this would be to diminish the demand for spice within Allanak, and thus diminish the roleplaying activities surrounding the import and sale thereof.

[bcw81]

Because spice is a drug akin to heroin or weed or cocaine or whatever. It is strong, potent and has a set code-effect you cannot play around. Tobacco does nothing to you, in comparison to spice, would be cheaper and easier to cultivate and because you cannot play a habitual smoker of spice without going broke/dying/having to RP being tweaked out all the fucking time.¨¨

Also read the original post.

IIRC, since there are about 20 bajillion different kinds of spices, one can assume not all are hard hitting ones akin to heroine, etc. Read the messages you get when you smoke, I know there's at least one that describes how I feel after smoking a good cigar.

P.S. Even if we did have tobacco, the Known couldn't support any quantity of it... Therefor, in the end, it would probably be more expensive than spice.

Irrigate
Keep the plants well-watered without getting the soil soggy. Drought stress could limit growth on excessively drained soils unless irrigation is provided. Lack of sun will result in spindly plants, poor growth and thin leaves. Some types of tobacco such as that used for cigar wrappers are grown under some shade to promote desirable leaf characteristics.

[Kismetic]

I don't think people are asking exactly for tobacco, but a similar existing substance that is not as codedly damaging as spice to puff on.  However, tobacco is addictive, and it is the leading preventable cause of death in the world.

That said, this sort of thing should be explored in the game, as talking about it on the GDB nets ...  well, nothing but talk.

[bcw81]

As I said... Spice. Just because all the forms of 'spice' are labeled under one term does not make them all the same product. Find out IC if you want to know more.

[My 2 sids]

I would think the north would be against fire and the south just doesn't have enough plants to burn.   So, in the end Earth is Earth and Zan is Zan.  And Zananthas has spice.

[HavokBlue]

As I said... Spice. Just because all the forms of 'spice' are labeled under one term does not make them all the same product. Find out IC if you want to know more.

[musashi]

I hate to be a Find Out IC buzz kill but um ... there are already non spice, smoke able plants in game.

[Maso]

I hate to be a Find Out IC buzz kill but um ... there are already non spice, smoke able plants in game.

Ones that don't have a drug-like effect?

But are also so incredibly rare that they're not mentioned in any documentation nor have taken a hold as a cultural habit in any of the main population centers? I think the point being made by the OP is less that such a thing needs to 'exist' in game, but simply that it would be nice to have the habit as something available for RP in a socially acceptable way.

[musashi]

It is documented. One just needs to be playing in the proper clan/tribe. And yes it has no drug like effect beyond what you opt to RP. Not incredibly rare, just not a part of city bound culture.

But the game world has it, its already a nitch thing.
Go find some and make it popular in your respective city state if that's your focus?

[Bogre]

I would actually like something like Qat.

Can chew it on those long relaxing desert rides.

[Voular]

Or snus for that matter. (Google that, it's like a non-nasty version of chewing tobacco.)

But no, I've played over 400 playdays (more certainly, but that is what I can say with confidence) of Armageddon and I have never encountered, with my characters, anything smoked in front of me that wasn't spice or any form of it. Find out IC, there is already something like it, campaign it IC is not something that belongs in this thread.

I am saying it is WEIRD that this game has been played so long without any god damn tobacco-like thing. It's a staple of human vices. We have every other possible thing imaginable.


WHY WAS THERE NEVER ANY TOBACCO TO START WITH!?

[Dalmeth]

WHY WAS THERE NEVER ANY TOBACCO TO START WITH!?

Because this is a MUD.  We naturally never think of those small things people in real life do to comfort themselves.

Hell, have you ever seen any PC with a cheap, constant habit?

[Harmless]

This has been suggested before by me, and has been shut down in exact the same way, nothing is going to change because of this thread.

[HavokBlue]

WHY WAS THERE NEVER ANY TOBACCO TO START WITH!?

Because this is a MUD.  We naturally never think of those small things people in real life do to comfort themselves.

Hell, have you ever seen any PC with a cheap, constant habit?

Armageddon has no cheap, constant habits.

[Eurynomos]

We need something that is smokable that is not spice or any sort of derivative of it. Tobacco, scrub-leaves, call it whatever. Something with minimal effects, easy to roleplay out - just puffing and having a bitter taste in your mouth.

It seems that you, the Player, want tobacco or an equivalent IG. What drove people to dry and use tobacco IRL? Native Americans had been drying/smoking it for years, and then traded it with Eastern European settlers. In Europe, up until that point, it simply wasn't around. Eastern culture had opium, but not tobacco. In the history of humans, tobacco is actually a pretty new concept. So, in Zalanthas -- The equivalent of Tobacco may not exist. At least, not in the Known World. Maybe there are tribes in the Known World that have a similar substance, and trade that. Or maybe they don't. Again, find out IC.

Am I totally off in thinking this is weird? Why havn't zalanthalans smoked anything else by now? Is EVERYTHING that grows in the world unsmokable? We need cigars and cheap yucky pipe tobacco.

Whether or not there is a cheap alternative to Spice is a Find out IC thing.

Booze is currently a bit to expensive to really have as a continual habit of intake (unless you're a wealthy PC, but those are minority). We need a habit that is legal in the whole world, widely accepted, doesn't interfere with your state of being to much, that is addictive and that can be made money out of. There is a silly amount of coin to be made out of this.

Then maybe it has been investigated IG. Maybe it hasn't. Maybe that type of plant doesn't exist in a harsh desert landscape. That would also have to be discovered IG.

Do it. Bring it IG.

Typically, telling Staff to do something (even tongue-and-cheek) won't yield a positive result.

Ps. I am writing this with a cigar in my mouth. Not biased at all.

Cool! It seems like you want to translate your RL habit to Zalanthas. Perhaps this can be a goal of a PC you have, either now or in the future.

[FantasyWriter]

My suggestion on how to approach such a change if you are willing to do something about it instead of hopoing for an "ask and ye shall receive":

-Scour the plant docs for some IC effect that you find desirable (*note: most of these are either RPd or used in helping people with skill_brew determine what might go into making what medicines/poisons/etc. and have no coded effect of their own).
-Make a far traveling rangery/merchanty type. Guild doesn't actually matter in this case, but ranger would make it somewhat simpler if you don't like waiting on other people to supply/move your goods.
-Start RPing chewing/smoking your desired plant. Junk the item when you do and RP out the effects.
-Get others to do the same.  This is an RPI, and many people will go along with it so long as it aligns with the documentation. There was an awesome tribal medicine man IG not-too-long-ago that is good proof if this.
-Write reports/bios relating to your discovery/use/distribution of your product.
-Let staff know you would like for it to eventually have a coded effect similar to what you and the others are RPing. Don't get discouraged by 'no's or get your hopes up with 'maybe's.
   Do your part. Let staff worry about theirs.
-Have fun with it!

[Recharge]

Forget tobacco and other smokeable plants I want something more harmful than spice, bring on the heroin and crack!

[Voular]

My suggestion on how to approach such a change if you are willing to do something about it instead of hopoing for an "ask and ye shall receive":

-Scour the plant docs for some IC effect that you find desirable (*note: most of these are either RPd or used in helping people with skill_brew determine what might go into making what medicines/poisons/etc. and have no coded effect of their own).
-Make a far traveling rangery/merchanty type. Guild doesn't actually matter in this case, but ranger would make it somewhat simpler if you don't like waiting on other people to supply/move your goods.
-Start RPing chewing/smoking your desired plant. Junk the item when you do and RP out the effects.
-Get others to do the same.  This is an RPI, and many people will go along with it so long as it aligns with the documentation. There was an awesome tribal medicine man IG not-too-long-ago that is good proof if this.
-Write reports/bios relating to your discovery/use/distribution of your product.
-Let staff know you would like for it to eventually have a coded effect similar to what you and the others are RPing. Don't get discouraged by 'no's or get your hopes up with 'maybe's.
   Do your part. Let staff worry about theirs.
-Have fun with it!

... No.


What the hell is it with people and be the change mentality around here. I've never seen these sort of changes implemented from player side.

Stop patronizing this discussion. I am not asking for ways or how to implemented. I am saying we need it, it's weird it's not in and it makes the world poorer from one more awesome thing you would be able to do.

Also, agree on the heavy drugs.

Edit to add: Also, what staffer would really want to see a singular player try to plant shit and then trying to smoke it. Not to mention large-scale operations? You're out of your minds if that is even a viable, not to mention houses clamping down on you - and the templarate. This is also not possible with the current setting - it would be practically impossible to cultivate a new crop (that would magically appear out of nowhere) and not get fucking beheaded by the first Kuraci you meet. Even as a Kuraci you'd be an idiot to introduce something in opposition to your own market, if not to reach Allanak - ugh. It's a silly way of saying this can be done. I posted because I know it CAN'T BE DONE and I am interested why. Why wasn't there any tobacco to start with? We have alcohol, food, magick, silly elves and whatnot. Why was our favourite human vice left out?

[Nyr]

What FW is suggesting is legitimate.

You can research the plants available already and read what effects they have (either rumored or actual, depending on wording).  A brief perusal of the plant docs shows at least one sedative, several fever reducers, a pain reliever, a hallucinogen, a stimulant, and even an eyesight aid.  Some of them already are incorporated in other ways, but most of them don't have any coded effects.  It's possible that some could be coded.  This isn't so much "be the change you want to see" as it is "this stuff exists and you can certainly do it already, but if you're looking for a coded effect, that's not necessarily a requirement--however, it also isn't bad to suggest it should be coded."  That'd be more of a code discussion topic, though, not a world topic.  At that point it's a matter of determining when, how, and if resources should be devoted to coding that up.

[Iiyola]

Forget tobacco and other smokeable plants I want something more harmful than spice, bring on the heroin and crack!

Get your crack pipe in Cenyr.

[Kaineus]

Forget tobacco and other smokeable plants I want something more harmful than spice, bring on the heroin and crack!

Get your crack pipe in Cenyr.

LOL...
The Armageddon player base is too jaded for its own good.

[Maso]

Even as a Kuraci you'd be an idiot to introduce something in opposition to your own market, if not to reach Allanak - ugh.

That doesn't actually make any business sense at all. Offering your consumer an alternative product is not an 'opposition to your own market'...it's a technique for expanding your market to include people who didn't previously buy the other product (in this case spice) for whatever reason, they don't like it, it's too expensive, it's not expensive enough, it's illegal etc. It could even be marketed as a complimentary product. People who take drugs don't tend to stop taking drugs if they start smoking, most people I know who smoke tobacco and smoke other 'medicinal' substances, for example, will smoke more cigarettes when they are 'under the effect'.

Having a tobacco based product alongside a spice based product...not different from having an alcoholic based product alongside a spice based product, which Kurac already does.

[Maso]

Totaaally....duddddddeeee....

[Maso]

Chill out! Just reading your posts makes me want to go smoke some...efiliq.

[Delirium]

I just want to point out that tea is a Big Deal in desert / eastern cultures.

[Kismetic]

And I want to point out for the second time that talking about it on the GDB only results in bickering and hurt feelings.  It's not a "be the change" post, it's a "get off your ass and do it" post.  Unless you're just trolling us all ... Which, y'know ...  fair enough, dude.  Puff puff.

[Eurynomos]

And so devolves the thread.

Points were made, Staff made points, Players made points. Most of this can be pursued or found out IG.