Consent

[The Lonely Hunter]

Another topic got me to thinking. I believe it would be pretty cool if you could avoid OOC for consent. Nothing kills an intense scene and hits the reset button on immersion like having to use the OOC command. However, consent is a needed part of the game. To solve this I propose a small bit of code to help avoid the need to use the OOC command.

When you first enter the game you would be asked what you consent to, prior to pointing. This could be changed latter if you changed your mind but it would allow a player to assess -<variable> <target> and see what you have consented to.

For example:

consent sex/graphic violence/maiming/rape/all

>consent
Currently you consent to: none
>consent sex
You now consent to sex.
>consent graphic violence
You now consent to graphic violence.

>consent
Your choices are sex/graphic violence/maiming/rape/all
You currently consent to: sex, graphic violence

>assess -c man
He consents to: sex, graphic violence

Thoughts?

[greasygemo]

Nah that would kill the moment everytime you assessed someone, attaching OOC info to that.. Maybe give it it's own command?

consentcheck Amos

Amos consents to: Graphic violence, Sex
Amos does not consent to: Torture, Maiming

[Malken]

Something like that has been proposed often in the last few years.. I think the counter-point is that characters might be ignored or interacted with differently if they had consent for sex on or off..

Can't really imagine the poor maiden PC who has consent for rape on, either..

Anyway, look it up, there's been a few threads on that in the past, yeah.

[Kieandatu]

I've never really "lost my immersion" or been "put out of the mood" by asking a quick "ooc Consent".

And like Malken said, there is a strong possibility that someone would not interact the same with a PC that consentchecks to no. You can say "I'd never do that" but there are 200-300 people that play this game.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Nah that would kill the moment everytime you assessed someone, attaching OOC info to that.. Maybe give it it's own command?

consentcheck Amos

Amos consents to: Graphic violence, Sex
Amos does not consent to: Torture, Maiming

consentcheck = assess -c (the c variable being for consent)

I believe we suggested the same thing. A single command to check the status of consent.  

[Karieith]

It ruins "the mood" to ask for permission to do bad/good to character? I...  . I am sorry if a tiny bit of OOC back and forth is detrimental to anyone's immersion.

But I feel OOC works well and I also worry that players would avoid other players if they knew right away that another character won't consent to what they want to do with/to them. Ruining both character's potentials for interaction.

[Maso]

I'm happy with things they way they are. I don't want people to be able to check what I may or may not consent to ahead of time and judge whether or not they will interact with me because of that.

[path]

Yah, and I'm prejudiced. I might consent to a torture scene with rad rper A and not with jerk-off B because he's just an idiot and playing the whole deal out would feel like a waste of time.

[Maso]

Yah, and I'm prejudiced. I might consent to a torture scene with rad rper A and not with jerk-off B because he's just an idiot and playing the whole deal out would feel like a waste of time.

That too.

[The Lonely Hunter]

It ruins "the mood" to ask for permission to do bad/good to character? I...  . I am sorry if a tiny bit of OOC back and forth is detrimental to anyone's immersion.

But I feel OOC works well and I also worry that players would avoid other players if they knew right away that another character won't consent to what they want to do with/to them. Ruining both character's potentials for interaction.

I fail to see why anyone would avoid anyone else because of this. If consent isn't given, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen simply that it isn't played out (with the exception of rape). Joe can not give consent to be tortured but that doesn't mean his PC isn't tortured, just that he doesn't partake in the scene and it is summarized.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Yah, and I'm prejudiced. I might consent to a torture scene with rad rper A and not with jerk-off B because he's just an idiot and playing the whole deal out would feel like a waste of time.

A good point, thanks!

[Maso]

I think...the point is that some people may choose not to flirt with hot girl A...because they already know that she doesn't consent to sexy scenes...and the player behind their character wants some hawt mudsex and a not a fade. Sure, they shouldn't...but players do make OOC choices.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think...the point is that some people may choose not to flirt with hot girl A...because they already know that she doesn't consent to sexy scenes...and the player behind their character wants some hawt mudsex and a not a fade. Sure, they shouldn't...but players do make OOC choices.

Sadly. I suppose I like to believe that Arm players don't do crap like this but who am I kidding?

Thanks for the constructive input!

[Maso]

I think...the point is that some people may choose not to flirt with hot girl A...because they already know that she doesn't consent to sexy scenes...and the player behind their character wants some hawt mudsex and a not a fade. Sure, they shouldn't...but players do make OOC choices.

Sadly. I suppose I like to believe that Arm players don't do crap like this but who am I kidding?

We have seasoned players...and newer players who will become seasoned players and gradually adapt to our superior ways over time. :p

[Riya OniSenshi]

Searching the forum is win.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39180.0.html - 2010 thread about pretty much the same thing.
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35237.0.html - 2009 thread about the same thing.
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,15484.0.html - 2005 thread about the same thing.

EDIT: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15105 - and even older one, it seems...

There's a couple others that returned, but were mostly just about needing consent to rape...

**(Directions: Advance Search link from main gdb page, search for words "consent assess" (no quotation marks) set to match all words, only have checked the boards for general, roleplaying, code, ask the staff, and ask the players.)

[MeTekillot]

Nope. I don't dig it, son. Just use OOC.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Searching the forum is win.

Thanks for your advise! I don't believe that revisiting something that was last discussed 2 or so years ago is a bad idea.

Posting constructive comments and criticisms is win. 

[Maso]

Searching the forum is win.

Thanks for your advise! I don't believe that revisiting something that was last discussed 2 or so years ago is a bad idea.

Posting constructive comments and criticisms is win. 

+1

[MeTekillot]

Just use OOC, because some folk would be more comfortable RPing scenes that require consent with someone they know or who has displayed some semblance of RP ability rather than with AmosDwarf McDoesNotLikeCommas or whatever.

Or perhaps they'd probably be a little bit less willing to RP a sex scene with the horribly-deformed, tentacle-armed half-giant than with the statuesque, nicely-haired man.

[Kismetic]

I would consent anything with metekillot

[Riya OniSenshi]

Searching the forum is win.

Thanks for your advise! I don't believe that revisiting something that was last discussed 2 or so years ago is a bad idea.

Posting constructive comments and criticisms is win. 

There's at least 10 pages of comments for you to look though. You're not going to get more "constructive" than what staff has already posted on the subject.

[Kieandatu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGlN6mluGA - This contains all my feelings. Older players will get a chuckle.


Also, I don't think it is deserving of its own flag. Sometimes the quick "OOC Consent" for someone is worthwhile, because maybe AT THAT TIME they just want to fade for times sake, but other times they're all rip roaring for kiyet lion-club sized wangs.

[FantasyWriter]

I like to think that real people with real lives (especially since a good portion of us are older than the internet) are mature enough not to be so distracted by a single REQUIRED line of text as to have their -game- experience broken.

[lordcooper]

People's openness to these things have the potential to alter drastically due to recent events or even just the mood they happen to be in at present.  There may even be one or two highly specific things that make a player uncomfortable, even if they'd be up for roleplaying 99% of the freaky things you can come up with.  I'd prefer to keep the two to ten second wait than risk upsetting someone needlessly.

[FantasyWriter]

Good point, LC.  Time restraints do the same.

[greasygemo]

consentcheck = assess -c (the c variable being for consent)

I believe we suggested the same thing. A single command to check the status of consent.  

Lol, hmmmm, I think we did yes... Wait, you can use variables with assess?

[RogueGunslinger]

Yep. Try 'Asses -v amos' sometime.

Pretty sure -v is the only one... I may be mistaken.

[Kismetic]

Assess -v is the verbose command.  Help assess.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If that's the case, I could dig ass -v for verbose, and ass -c for consent, but I do think that there's a lot of good point about how as a player, I'm open to general types of roleplay most of the time, but that doesn't mean my character would be, nor does it mean that I can just now, so much as that I'm open to it.

[path]

Maybe I'm roleplaying wrong, but I just don't see asking for consent as being this big game changer. It seems pretty low key. Applying our few skilled coders volunteer time to this seems like a waste to me.

Moreover, if I had to set consent to one thing or another, I'd certainly set it to off, and then I'd miss out on banging those few, really appealing PCs I so rarely encounter.

[Kismetic]

Moreover, if I had to set consent to one thing or another, I'd certainly set it to off, and then I'd miss out on banging those few, really appealing PCs I so rarely encounter.

Except, their consent would be off, too, and it wouldn't matter.

[path]

So true. This could really cut down on mudsexxxxing altogether. You've just turned my vote, Kismetic. I'm suddenly feeling more favorable toward the deal.

[Kismetic]

And then, all the people with consent off, when behooved to require it, have to ask over OOC, anyway.

Do I win this thread?  For my prize, I want a torture scene in 30 emotes or less

[Maso]

em tortures you

[BadSkeelz]

I have no problem with the system as it stands now. In fact, I rather like seeing how enthusiastically people have given their consent for awfulness. Let's me RP with a cleaner conscience.

[Malken]

ooc Yeeeeeeees, finally, I'm going to get some!! ^_^ CONSENT GIVEN, ALSO, WANT TO MEET MY MOM?!

[Maso]

ooc Yeeeeeeees, finally, I'm going to get some!! ^_^ CONSENT GIVEN, ALSO, WANT TO MEET MY MOM?!

Don't post logs that are less than a year old. *shakes head sadly*

[The Lonely Hunter]

I have no problem with the system as it stands now. In fact, I rather like seeing how enthusiastically people have given their consent for awfulness. Let's me RP with a cleaner conscience.

<thumbs up>

[AmandaGreathouse]

I have no problem with the system as it stands now. In fact, I rather like seeing how enthusiastically people have given their consent for awfulness. Let's me RP with a cleaner conscience.

<thumbs up>

The lonely hunter and I have had a couple consent scenes... I highly encourage more need to ask for it.

[AreteX]

There is so much that can happen and so many things that people wouldn't mind participating in, but some things they would be against that you cannot have a generic flag for a category.

"Sex" means so many different possibilities.  Especially in Zalanthas.  Someone might be fine with humans mating with humans, but if you bring an elf into the mix its OVER! :0

Graphic Violence could mean any crazy amounts of things in Zalanthas.  Someone might be fine with minor torture(breaking someone's fingers for stealing) but they would not want to witness someone wrapping up intestines like a ball of yarn.

Also, if you find it jarring to have that minor bit of ooc consent conversation then why are you willing to spam an entirely OOC based command to check for people's consent flags in a tavern before even interacting with that character?  I try not to type equipment, score, stat and all that over and over again because it does detract from your immershunz.  I think adding another OOC based command to assess whether or not someone will sex you up is worse than one quick OOC: Consent to sex you up?

[The Lonely Hunter]

Also, if you find it jarring to have that minor bit of ooc consent conversation then why are you willing to spam an entirely OOC based command to check for people's consent flags in a tavern before even interacting with that character?  ... OOC: Consent to sex you up?

Why would you spam the command to check for people's consent flags in a tavern or check at any time when you normally wouldn't ask for consent? And yes maybe I am anal (consent?) but it seems like a trend to try and be funny when you have to use the OOC command, which is jarring to me. When I play a RPG, especially a RPI, I want my character to interact with yours, I don't want to interact with you.

[Maso]

but it seems like a trend to try and be funny when you have to use the OOC command, which is jarring to me.

Aww. That's me. I do that sometimes.

Sometimes though, I'm just really frank. But when you're talking about sex stuff especially in a really frank, concise manner...well...sometimes it's hard for it not to sound funny.

[Kismetic]

Yeeah, I pretty much always joke about it.  Otherwise, I'd have to take it seriously (and start cracking romance novels).  I guess it's hard for me to be jarred in such a way that ruins my experience.  You'd have to:  OOC hey guys where you from want to chat on aim??  ...  Which I've seen only once, thank god.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I know this may sound like blasphemy but there are other things besides sex that you need to get consent for 

Hell, I have only RPed out sex with two of my PCs that I can remember. I think it can be a cool tool for character development but that is a different thread all together.

[BadSkeelz]

I take those other things even less seriously than sex. Taking a half step back and laughing at the situation actually helps keep me from breaking character a moment later. It helps that I'm pretty much impervious to being jarred by OOC (aside from guilt of jarring others around here). Chalk it up to years of playing in settings where you're managing IC and OOC simultaneously.

[Maso]

I know this may sound like blasphemy but there are other things besides sex that you need to get consent for 

Hell, I have only RPed out sex with two of my PCs that I can remember. I think it can be a cool tool for character development but that is a different thread all together.

Sure. I suppose my mind always swings to sex in these discussions because it's the only thing I would ask to fade. Torture etc is all just fine and dandy.

[Medena]

I'm against the system proposed for all the reasons people have already raised.  I do not recall ever encountering any problems with people being goofballs while using the OOC to go through consent issues but if I ever did, I'd just put in a player complaint.

I don't think this system would eliminate the need for OOC anyway since just because a player does not consent to play out sex or torture does not mean their PC's will not get into situations involving it and. except in the case of rape,  something will have happened which has to be described OOC'ly.  The other person in the scene (eg. the torturer) is still going to have to OOC what happened like "OOC: okay, so the torture lasted for about an hour and we cut off two fingers and broke your right arm".

[greasygemo]

I could really use some more graphic violence in my game play.. Where are all the PC whack jobs anyway? I get more violence from tregils...

[FantasyWriter]

Sigh, I haven't seen or been in a good torture scene in forever.

[Riya OniSenshi]

Seen plenty of breeds laying around... You could likely fix your problem easily, FW...

[The Lonely Hunter]

I could really use some more graphic violence in my game play.. Where are all the PC whack jobs anyway? I get more violence from tregils...

You must just be playing in the wrong part of the world 

[Akaramu]

Sigh, I haven't seen or been in a good torture scene in forever.

Same, I think the last one was in... 2005 / 2006? Or something. I'm in the right part of the world, just never get invited by the cool kids. 

Maybe I'll create a breed PC and piss off a templar just to invite myself!

[BadSkeelz]

RPT Time @ You Know Where: Come get yo ass whupped.

[Maso]

Sigh, I haven't seen or been in a good torture scene in forever.

I know right. Turn it up a notch folks! I'd do it myself, but none of my characters live long enough to be strong enough to try and threaten well...anyone. Sigh.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I could really use some more graphic violence in my game play.. Where are all the PC whack jobs anyway? I get more violence from tregils...

You must just be playing in the wrong part of the world 

I'm seriously. The only way to Fade is a LonelyHunter (public torture) fade.

[Maso]

But....I wouldn't *want* to fade that!

[AmandaGreathouse]

I didn't either. And I didn't. But I was just trying to be clever with the consent crap. Show's what posting on about 40 hours without sleep will do.

[greasygemo]

I wish I knew something worth torturing over.. Or even better, wish I had the opportunity to torture for information... I could totally get down with some holds-lit-torch-to-your-exposed-skin and rubs-salt-cyrstals-into-your-open-wounds action lol

[Jeshin]

Who do you work for?!

*holds torch to skin*

Tell me!

*pokes torch against your belly*

Tell me!

*pokes torch in your hair setting your tressy tresses alight*

Who?!

^ add batman voice and.... scene

[Malken]

Unfortunately, most torture scenes go something like..

Fuck you, I won't tell you nofin'! *spits blood in %templar face*

[BadSkeelz]

That's just the opening salvo. It's not the destination, after all, it's the journey of the hot obsidian rod up the recalcitrant elf's rectum that's important.

[Maso]

How would fading torture work anyway?

Code Select Expand



You say OOC: Ok, so he burns her face. Does she cough up?

She says OOC: No

You say OOC: He cuts off two of her fingers. How about now?

She says OOC: Nope

You say OOC: He tickles her feet with a feather?

She says OOC: You, you got her. Back to IC.



[Riya OniSenshi]

How would fading torture work anyway?

http://www.armageddon.org/original/showSubmission.php?submission=517

Read that log.

[Is Friday]

In my experience with torture--people always seem to think that they're "going to die anyway" instead of submitting whatever they have that might keep them alive. I don't get it. You had a way out, dude.

[Maso]

In my experience with torture--people always seem to think that they're "going to die anyway" instead of submitting whatever they have that might keep them alive. I don't get it. You had a way out, dude.

This. I totally wish that that one character of mine had just submitted and begged for their life. Worst. Mistake. Ever. (on Arm)

[Maso]

How would fading torture work anyway?

http://www.armageddon.org/original/showSubmission.php?submission=517

Read that log.

Great log. Only a tiny weeny fade though.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I'm seriously. The only way to Fade is a LonelyHunter (public torture) fade.

<Peter Griffin voice> Thats fricken' awesome. A LonelyHunter. 

[Kieandatu]

In my experience with torture--people always seem to think that they're "going to die anyway" instead of submitting whatever they have that might keep them alive. I don't get it. You had a way out, dude.

Sometimes, all it takes is one. If you're being interrogated because you're a rogue gicker, but you're not.... or they say you killed someone and you just logged in, its hard for you to be like "OH YEAH I TOTALLY DID THAT" because then its all "Well. I guess the punishment for it is DEATH."

[FantasyWriter]

How would fading torture work anyway?

http://www.armageddon.org/original/showSubmission.php?submission=517

Read that log.

I'll never get tired of reading that one.

[kayza]

In my experience with torture--people always seem to think that they're "going to die anyway" instead of submitting whatever they have that might keep them alive. I don't get it. You had a way out, dude.

I disagree.

And what you said here is all over the GDB and probably is my least favorite thing people say about PKing. 

There are two major reasons why people will not talk and I feel these happen a lot.
1.  The character really does not know.  People might of easily lied to you.  Unless you witnessed the event your character in the end is making a guess based on what can easily be wrong.
2.  The one that I think happens the most frequently.  The player feels this is a fine end to their character.  Death from a PC is IMO the best way to end a char.. even if it is completely just you are walking around and Mantis head.  Otherwise death is by NPC or boredom.

True friendship is a hard thing to come by in this mean world.  A character can easily have IC justification to just accept death especially certain races.  And the player will probably be completely fine with that at least after a few moments pass

It's not some dark secret that if you go along with torture and remove all drop all, or say (pleading) Everything single thing I know about everything in the world that is true.. will most likely save your character.   

[Bogre]

I just think its good to check. A flag like that someone might not have checked for a long time, or might not be feeling up to seeing entrails being worn as a scarf that particular evening.

[kayza]

I'm happy with things they way they are. I don't want people to be able to check what I may or may not consent to ahead of time and judge whether or not they will interact with me because of that.

I agree with this.
I dislike this idea.