Tailoring for others

[hatchets]

Is there currently a way to tailor things to fit other people?

And if not, would it be feasible to put something in that could be used for it?

I am not sure all of what is taken into account with tailoring. Race, Height, Weight?

So maybe something like

tailor <item> (race) (height) (weight)

tailor helm human 65 8

[Riya OniSenshi]

Only through the npc clothing and armor tailors.

[Barsook]

But that's only for your PC and anyone else if what something tailored for them.

[Lizzie]

Only through the npc clothing and armor tailors.

There are some inconveniences with this:

1. The item's end result will fit whoever turns the ticket in. So I can't get something tailored for you, unless we are both the same height/weight/race.
2. Due to #1, GMH merchants can't order something that is designed to fit someone specific. On NPC merchants, the "standard loadup" allows them to use the "buy" command. But on special orders, the single item loaded up has a default size which may or may not be the right size for the customer.
3. Crafters PCs who have the clothworking skill, even at the master craft level, cannot do alterations to their own work. RP-wise, that makes zero sense at all.

[hatchets]

Maybe a tool that records the 'measurements' for a person?

Then you could Tailor (item) (sizing tool) for example. Or Crafters could craft (material) (material) (Item) (sizing Tool) For sizing?

With a period of time in getting the measurements of a person (person must hold still), you could measure (person) while holding the tool. The tool would then keep those measurements until used on someone else?

Example of said tool:

Intricate Measuring Tool

Once opened, the measuring tool appears to have many lengths of cords and colored markers along each one. Some cords measuring ones height, some arm length, inseem, and gurth.

just a thought maybe.

[Barsook]

That won't work, most people of the Known can't read.

[hatchets]

Doesn't involve reading, that is why I used markers of color.

The in game theory, would be to hold one of the lengths up to the appropriate area, and place one marker at the end of the length.
Tailor could always just tell you "Red is for height, Blue is for arms, Yellow is for gurth" ect...

[Barsook]

Oh, I can read. Then, I do dig this idea.

[FantasyWriter]

Maybe a tool that records the 'measurements' for a person?

Then you could Tailor (item) (sizing tool) for example. Or Crafters could craft (material) (material) (Item) (sizing Tool) For sizing?

With a period of time in getting the measurements of a person (person must hold still), you could measure (person) while holding the tool. The tool would then keep those measurements until used on someone else?

Example of said tool:

Intricate Measuring Tool

Once opened, the measuring tool appears to have many lengths of cords and colored markers along each one. Some cords measuring ones height, some arm length, inseem, and gurth.

just a thought maybe.

Colors aren't necessarily needed. Number sizes will work, even if tally marks or something similar. Zalanthans understand counting and arithmetic. Otherwise they couldn't pay shops, count change, order enough/not-too-many cords of fabric, etc.

I love the idea, btw.

[FantasyWriter]

Or just a rope with a bunch of knots or beads along its length.
The below example is of a much more sophisticated idea used in ancient and medieval times, but the tool could be used as a simple measuring device in Zalanthas as well.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knotted_cord

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_rope

http://www.ozarkmedievalfortress.com/en-us/construction/a-rope-with-13-knots

[valeria]

I would loooove PC tailoring.  One of the things I didn't like when I was playing a PC merchant was that, despite my merchant being meticulous, I couldn't guarantee the clothing I was delivering would fit.

[Tenua]

This has been discusses several times before and the issue with it would be getting something like this to codedly work. So.... Someone code it and maybe they'll put it in?

[FantasyWriter]

This has been discusses several times before and the issue with it would be getting something like this to codedly work. So.... Someone code it and maybe they'll put it in?

The code is there. Staff can 'tailor' something to fit a PC almost immediately. It is probably more a matter of adapting the existing sizing code or even just making it PC accessible.

[Tenua]

This has been discusses several times before and the issue with it would be getting something like this to codedly work. So.... Someone code it and maybe they'll put it in?

The code is there. Staff can 'tailor' something to fit a PC almost immediately. It is probably more a matter of adapting the existing sizing code or even just making it PC accessible.

Staff can, sure. They don't have to take into account skill level at all. What happens to the item if you fail? Did you rip it? Even at Master levels you still fail. And fail more often than most would think.

[Nyr]

The code is there. Staff can 'tailor' something to fit a PC almost immediately.

While unrelated, just pointing out that staff can do anything.  It doesn't mean the code is there.  I can change your PC's race from elf to human.  It doesn't mean the code is there for your PC to change races.  We have the ability to edit things, though! 

[FantasyWriter]

Staff can, sure. They don't have to take into account skill level at all. What happens to the item if you fail? Did you rip it? Even at Master levels you still fail. And fail more often than most would think.

Well, the NPCs never mess up?  Seriously though, tailoring an existing garment to fit someone in front of you, from my understanding, isn't so much a pass/fail thing as it is a work on it until you get it right thing.
I think it would be better balanced by a -very- long delay with pleanty of time for emoting needle pricks to the the customer and whatnot, rather than a pass/fail roll, for many reasons, one of which is the risk of losing garments which ICly could be replicated by the master tailor working with you, but due to the restrictions of the crafting code cannot.  Also, staff has never thought it relevant enough that tailors might 'mess up and rip a garmnet' to add it to the NPCs.

PS - I would like to see it branch from Tailoring rather than having merchants and tailor subclasses start with it. Anyone can make a shirt out of an empty sack, nto everyone can make it not look like crap when you wear it.

Basically, it is just giving PCs a change do interact with another PC rather than an NPC, which is always good.

While unrelated, just pointing out that staff can do anything.  It doesn't mean the code is there.  I can change your PC's race from elf to human.  It doesn't mean the code is there for your PC to change races.  We have the ability to edit things, though!  

Shows how much I know about MUD coding.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Uh, Nyr, the coding for PCs to do it might not be there, but the code is certainly there. In fact, the only code change absolutely required for PCs to do it is a change of permission to object editing. To be plain, the way staff handles these issues is by checking your size, then changing the item size after checking it as well, giving it to you, and saving you (along with the item you've now been given).

Nyr's right in that there's likely no 'fit' command.

But creating the skill would be a simple process beginning to end, assuming that the skill is simply a match_object_size to PC_size.

[RogueGunslinger]

Lets leave it to the coders to decide how simple a thing is to code, and when is best to do it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Sure. But I know the basic mechanics required for the skill are in the code already. That's why staff can do everything - it's there to be done. It's a matter of creating the process required to bring it to PC level. Maybe that's not very easy. But for sure, the founding bricks are already there.

[Incognito]

For the benefit of those who don't remember, can someone please mention here, or, post a link to the appropriate post/helpfile, for crafting items from scratch to a desired size?

I ask because I vaguely remember some mention of crafters being able to craft wearable items to different sizes, but I might be mistaken.

Thanks.

[Sephiroto]

Not sure what's going on here, but I think most large organizations should have an NPC with the tailor program (or an NPC that will fully dress new personnel in full uniform), with access given to Sergeant-level and above.  Then the leader players could easily get uniform and ordered gear (uniforms and pieces ordered directly from GMH) sized to fit on demand but still be able to force players who get free gear from the supply crate sized the old fashioned way.  Let's face it, uniform gear should come in uniform sizes but currently the only way for sizing to work detracts hours of RL time of enjoyment from the game.  These NPCs exist in game and could be added to clan NPC lists with relatively little work.

As far as crafting an item or tailoring an item to fit another PC goes, that would be tough to do with the current code.  Without a staffer fully dedicated to developing code on a project like this, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

Edited because I left some words out.

[Maso]

Not sure what's going on here, but I think most large organizations should have an NPC with the tailor program (or an NPC that will fully dress new personnel in full uniform), with access given to Sergeant-level and above.  Then the leader players could easily get uniform and ordered gear (uniforms and pieces ordered directly from GMH) sized to fit on demand but still be able to force players who get free gear from the supply crate sized the old fashioned way.  Let's face it, uniform gear should come in uniform sizes but currently the only way for sizing to work.  These NPCs exist in game and could be added to clan NPC lists with relatively little work.

Yes. YES.

[Maker]

As far as crafting an item or tailoring an item to fit another PC goes, that would be tough to do with the current code.

Yeah....probably not.  Maybe more accurate to say isn't worth the effort in terms of priority, but what was said earlier is relatively true.  If the staff can edit, unless they are manually going into the DB and changing values (please tell me, after all these years, this is not how it is being done.  If so, you really need a tools programmer), there is a function already implemented that handles the editing.  Even if they are manually  editing the data, it is a trivial task to write a function to do it more elegantly. 

[FantasyWriter]

POV: Me.Kadius

>order effeminate follow me.kadius

[me.kadius goes to kadian.tavern]

>tell Lirathan (dipping his head respectfully before flourishing his hand toward ~effeminate) Stefan here will make the finishing touches to your lingerie, Faithful Lady.

POV: Templar

>offer Stefan red.lace.nighty

The effeminate, well-dressed tailor tailor says to you in northern-accented Sirihish,
    "That will take 1 hour and cost 0 coins."

>tailor red.lace.nighty
You give your smexy red lace nighty to the effeminate, well-dressed tailor and he gives you a vellum ticket.

POV: Me.Kadius

>order effeminate pemote gracefully lowering his head, @ begins making the finishing touches to ~smexy.

[Sephiroto]

But isn't is awfully damn silly that you have to go to the bazaar to have that tailoring done?  With the thousands of alterations that must be made each day across numerous clans, it wouldn't surprise me if the larger clans would have contracts with Salarr/Kadius to supply full time workers to mend, tailor, and alter clothing and gear in the clan's work halls.  Nobles above all have the coin to afford this, just like they have their own cooks and servants.

Aside from the practicality of this, the political implications are immense.  Would certain clans want to hire GMH outsiders to work in their armor mending/tailoring work spaces for trust reasons?  GMH's would obviously be interested in this because of the insight they could gather by having eyes and ears statically planted in the common areas of other clans' work compounds.

Another alternative would be business ventures between Borsail (or whoever trains the slaves these days) and the GMHs that results in the slave house training a series slaves under GMH guidance that would, instead, be owned by noble houses rather than hired as described above.  This is something I could see happening as a player-made plot that would be both challenging and constructive to the game.

[Nyr]

We have one improvement related to this that is slated after next reboot, but it's not that. 

For clans that offer full uniforms (which generally only occurs past a certain rank), a less-clunky solution would be to have it sized automatically at the time of purchase from said quartermaster NPC.  It does not seem like that big of a deal to tailor your own things, though.

[Maso]

We have one improvement related to this that is slated after next reboot, but it's not that. 

For clans that offer full uniforms (which generally only occurs past a certain rank), a less-clunky solution would be to have it sized automatically at the time of purchase from said quartermaster NPC.  It does not seem like that big of a deal to tailor your own things, though.

Except uniforms are usually bought by the person hiring...not the person just hired. So it would be automatically tailored to fit the wrong person?

[BadSkeelz]

So it would be automatically tailored to fit the wrong person?

That's what it sounds like, but:

For clans that offer full uniforms (which generally only occurs past a certain rank)

I think what Nyr was talking about was making it less clunky for those Clan Members who have reached "a certain rank" that allows them to go and buy a uniform for themselves. Underlings being handed the Ceremonial Jockstrap of Not-Newbness will still need to get their reward tailored, as the Jockstrab will be sized for whoever bought it from the clan merchant. So in the balance, I don't think this will actually save very many people tailoring time (I imagine most of us are getting rewards handed to use by clan leaders), but the "problem" of needing to go to the tailor isn't particularly problematic.

[Lizzie]

You can also
buy <item> <merchant> <race>

which isn't foolproof (since there are tall humans who won't fit into a short human's sized items) but reduces the cost of tailoring.

Code Select Expand


buy greaves amos human

Will get you the first set of greaves on the NPC Amos's list, sized for an average human.

I believe this only works if there are "many" available on Amos's list.

[Maso]

Yeah, but you can't do that and haggle...which is a pain. Haggling is important!

[Lizzie]

Yeah, but you can't do that and haggle...which is a pain. Haggling is important!

If you're buying a clan uniform from your own clan's NPC, you're not haggling. Profiting from your own employer is against the rules

[bcw81]

Sounds like something better done in game, and not something that staff need to do for you. If you want NPC tailors/armor repairers in the Byn go play a Byn sergeant and try to get it approved.

[Ender]

It does not seem like that big of a deal to tailor your own things, though.

Then can there be a tailor/armor repair NPC added to every area of civilization?  I can think of specifically one place that doesn't have an armor repairer and it's caused me infinite strife after making things for myself that I could not wear.

[Marc]

It would be nice if clothworking and armor repair allowed someone to resize clothing and armor.

The weasle-nosed sycophant says to a pot-bellied blue-blood, a pair of silk trousers held up to the fat mans pale legs:
     "It is the fabric that has stretched, Lord Fancypants, not you!"

tailor trousers pot.bellied.fancypants
The weasle-nosed sycophant starts to tailor the cloth.

The weasle-nosed sycophant whistles an up-beat melody as he measures a pot-bellied blue-blood's with a length of string, pinning the cloth in places with bone slivers.

The weasle-nosed sycophants makes adjustments to a pair of silk trousers.

Targettable, a long ass delay with appropriate skill checks and a chance for failure/critical failure.

Success = Resize item to fit target
Failure = Resize item to size X from target  (some random size variant up or down from the actual target.  "Did you think my ass was THAT big?!  Really?!"  "I didn't know these pants were meant to be high-waters.  Thanks, jackass.")
Critizal Failure = Damage to item and no size change  (move cloth to torn and armor to cracked)

To make it REALLY cool requiring material to upsize items would be awesome.  Make it along the same lines as repair i.e. require similar material to increase size.

tailor trousers pot.bellied.fancypants
You will need more material to do that.

tailor trousers pot.bellied.fancypants scrap.cloth
The weasle-nosed sycophant starts to tailor the cloth.

Require more materials for bigger jumps in size i.e. human -> half-giant.  Wouldn't need materials to downsize, maybe even resulting in appropriate scraps for significant reductions.  Or something.  Top of my head idear

[FantasyWriter]

It does not seem like that big of a deal to tailor your own things, though.

Neither is it a big deal to buy clothes form NPCs,
Or food. Or materials to make things. Or water. Or have one hit your gemmer's reset button.

But at least a nice chunk of this evolving game's playerbase would prefer to be able to interact with player-characters over NPCs where it is realistic to do so.


Also, any idea that resolves a "feature" that forces players to make their PCs do unrealistic OOC things (like telling an exhaled noblewoman that she has the mingle with commoner filth in the bazaar because her master tailor doesn't know how to read a measuring rod or selling a half giant halfing-sized armor) is worth consideration.

[Nyr]

Oh, ok. We'll stop our work on the website revamp and all other projects and focus it instead on making sure we don't break noble pc immersion for one aspect of the game.

I never implied it was not a good idea, just that it is not a big deal...that it is a minor annoyance at best! As with other cases in which I've chimed in, we appreciate the ideas and feedback, but in the end, we do not make coding decisions solely by the desires of players on the forum. We may do more than what I implied will occur after the next reboot. Til that hypothetical time, Lady Borsail will somehow have to cope.

[GithMaster]

Success = Resize item to fit target
Failure = Resize item to size X from target  (some random size variant up or down from the actual target.  "Did you think my ass was THAT big?!  Really?!"  "I didn't know these pants were meant to be high-waters.  Thanks, jackass.")
Critizal Failure = Damage to item and no size change  (move cloth to torn and armor to cracked)

One can dream.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

God help me, I like this.

[Quirk]

If PCs did get the ability to tailor clothing to another PC specifically, I think it would be nice to handle failures by tailoring anyway, but having a "badly-fitting" modifier tacked on the front.

l tall.muscular

This man is tall. Also muscular.

<worn about body>    a badly-fitting red sandcloth cloak
<worn on torso>        a badly-fitting red sandcloth shirt
<worn on legs>          badly-fitting red sandcloth leggings

[Barsook]

If PCs did get the ability to tailor clothing to another PC specifically, I think it would be nice to handle failures by tailoring anyway, but having a "badly-fitting" modifier tacked on the front.

l tall.muscular

This man is tall. Also muscular.

<worn about body>    a badly-fitting red sandcloth cloak
<worn on torso>        a badly-fitting red sandcloth shirt
<worn on legs>          badly-fitting red sandcloth leggings

+1

[najdorf]

This has been discusses several times before and the issue with it would be getting something like this to codedly work. So.... Someone code it and maybe they'll put it in?

The code is there. Staff can 'tailor' something to fit a PC almost immediately. It is probably more a matter of adapting the existing sizing code or even just making it PC accessible.

I am not sure about the coding language here, but in case it is object-oriented, this function seem pretty straightforward and easy, and the reason it hasn't been implemented yet might be a matter of priority. There are probably thousands of easily implementable and brilliant ideas.

to give non-coders a basic idea on how this could have been done...

syntax: tailor cloth giant
what it does: it gets the object cloth (in inventory), and it modifies it's size to fit the pointed character, in this case, giant.
Coding prerequisites: People and items have size properties.

Code Select Expand

function tailor(item, person) {
  if (check_if_cloth(item) and check_if_person(person) and (item.size != person.size) {
     item.size = person.size;
  }
  else {
  echo "Warning message";
}
}