Masks/Facewraps

[musashi]

Rather than us speculating about what terrible things PC's did when we had mdesc concealing masks ... I wish staff could give us some examples.

[DustMight]

Rather than us speculating about what terrible things PC's did when we had mdesc concealing masks ... I wish staff could give us some examples.

I was a player at that time.  I remember.  Mdesc concealing masks were kinda cool.
However, characters, and I remember distinctly would commit crimes and be completely invulnerable to the crimcode.  Certainly PCs couldn't figure out, unrealistically, who they were.

(Note: I can be completely misremember this - it was a LONG time ago and I barely understand a lot of mechanics even now.)

I believe I remember that a PC would try and pick-pocket you and when they failed would just laugh at you and stand there in the middle of the 'naki market.
At least, that is my memory.  I think there was also an Elvish market in 'naki market also - so I could just be full of shit.

[Case]

I'm against it because it seems like they're only used to protect a PC while they do something that others don't want them to do, so they don't have to cry or lose their PC when people stop them from doing said things.

Get better at doing it or get better friends.

The hidden assumption of your argument (and a hidden assumption that seems to linger beneath the surface of most discussions of PC crime) seems to be that players of criminal PCs are "up to no good" and should therefore be given minimal code support, because they're being bad (thus the focus on "something that others don't want them to do").  A criminal PC is not necessarily the same as a griefer.  It is a merely role in the game like any other.  I might as well say: 

The only reason people use shields is to protect a PC while fighting something/someone that should rightfully be hitting them, so they don't have to cry or lose their PC when that something/someone hits them.

Get better at your weapon skill or get better friends.

But since shields can't get their grubby fingers on PC's phat l00t, you never see this kind of dismissive snark directed toward that kind of feature.  Or hey, if you wouldn't be able to handle masked PCs causing you trouble, maybe you should get better friends.  In short, I find this sort of argument from snark very unconvincing.

A mask is a stupidly simple and accessible tool, simpler than a shield, and has been used by ne'er-do-wells to great effect for a very long time.  I'm not convinced the implementational problems discussed can be practically and easily surmounted, but that's not the same thing at all as saying identity concealment is a bad idea for the game.  Specially tagged mdescs would have to be optional.  There's no way around this.  Noobs have enough to worry about without having to learn a markup language just to write a desc.  It's also likely to be an approval nightmare.  I am a strong advocate of KISS and think that the "study" implementation mentioned earlier is probably the most elegant. 

Something that no one else has mentioned that i also think is important -- there should be serious combat, perception and stealth penalties for wearing concealing masks.  I'd even go a step further and suggest that people wearing concealment masks could be unprotected by crim code.  People won't be crimflagged for attacking them, since they're clearly up to no good.  (This would get complicated if, say, nobles started wearing masquerade ball outfits or whatever, but that's a pretty special case, and could be handled by making non-sneaky masks non-concealing.)  Of course concealing masks should not allow immunity from new or existing crimflags.

If you combine that with a simple, no-fail way to see through the ruse, like "study," and we'll have masks that are so nerfed into uselessness that abuse potential is virtually nil, but it will at least offer some more code support for a style of roleplay that is undersupported currently.  But hey, I'll take what I can get.  Hell, I'm happy that masks even cover *sdescs*, because even that is a form of code support for concealment roleplay.

I'm talking about when people want to be criminals who are untouchable, especially through code. Criminals are great fun when they're being realistic criminals.

[Fredd]

I'll state, there are Mdesc covering COSTUMES.

But I agree, we should be able to cover our mdesc. i've been metagamed several times across a few pc's. Even when i took care to completely change everything about my pc's clothing, and wore a wig.

[musashi]

Rather than us speculating about what terrible things PC's did when we had mdesc concealing masks ... I wish staff could give us some examples.

I was a player at that time.  I remember.  Mdesc concealing masks were kinda cool.
However, characters, and I remember distinctly would commit crimes and be completely invulnerable to the crimcode.  Certainly PCs couldn't figure out, unrealistically, who they were.

(Note: I can be completely misremember this - it was a LONG time ago and I barely understand a lot of mechanics even now.)

I believe I remember that a PC would try and pick-pocket you and when they failed would just laugh at you and stand there in the middle of the 'naki market.
At least, that is my memory.  I think there was also an Elvish market in 'naki market also - so I could just be full of shit.

I don't understand why wearing a mask should make anyone immune to the soldiers in the city

[Armaddict]

Don't recall any instance where it made crim code not work.  Exposure limited, though.  They just weren't common.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I agree with Yam...I don't think Mdesc should be hidden unless an approved alternate description is in place.   

I feel like this is still sort of on topic
I was in Luirs one time and a mage had a Tdesc set covering their gem with a scarf.  I have done the same thing and gone to Tuluk with a scarf and a tdesc, its not the same.  I didn't notice the tdesc and said something about it.  I felt bad about it.  Mages should have a means of covering their gem.  Maybe make it illegal to cover the gem in Allanak, but make it concealable. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If the gem were coded as a tattoo at the neck or about throat area, it would allow this.

[musashi]

If the gem were coded as a tattoo at the neck or about throat area, it would allow this.

But then you couldn't take it off. It wouldn't be an object anymore :-(

[chrisdcoulombe]

If the gem were coded as a tattoo at the neck or about throat area, it would allow this.

But then you couldn't take it off. It wouldn't be an object anymore :-(

What about just another wear location?...Just for things that are not advantageous codedly.

[Sav]

Code Select Expand

<worn around neck>          a giant escru-wool scarf
<worn about throat>         a pile of blue and green sandcloth scarves
<worn lodged into trachea>  a dull black gem

Whoops.

Also I want this as a wear loc just so I can assess things and see:
                a small, sharp object can be worn lodged into the trachea

[chrisdcoulombe]

Code Select Expand

<worn around neck>          a giant escru-wool scarf
<worn about throat>         a pile of blue and green sandcloth scarves
<worn lodged into trachea>  a dull black gem

Whoops.

Also I want this as a wear loc just so I can assess things and see:
                a small, sharp object can be worn lodged into the trachea

lol

[Maso]

I was in Luirs one time and a mage had a Tdesc set covering their gem with a scarf.  I have done the same thing and gone to Tuluk with a scarf and a tdesc, its not the same.  I didn't notice the tdesc and said something about it.  I felt bad about it.  Mages should have a means of covering their gem.  Maybe make it illegal to cover the gem in Allanak, but make it concealable. 

I think it should be concealable without being illegal at all, but always with a chance of being 'noticed', and with a culture of it being incredibly frowned upon and suspicious if you were trying to conceal it from people you were 'befriending'. Like trying to get a job and not telling them etc, or getting close to someone.

[Maso]

It could easily be coded as a neck/throat slot that acts like 'tattoo' slot in that it gets covered.

[Yam]

I actually don't think that's codedly possible with this system.

[Patuk]

I'm not sure if the code would allow such a thing, and if it wouldn't take a hundred years for it to be implemented, but..

I think people wearing masks and such should be semi-protected. If you're wearing a mask and are caught trying to steal someone's well-earned 'sid, then yes, even if your mdesc is covered and nobody could tell who you are, the militia will certainly try to arrest you for it.

But if you manage to escape, run into some alleyway/the rinth, shake off the guards and change up your outfit a bit? (or not at all, since most commoners will dress alike, anyway) The current crimcode will have the soldiers chase you none the less, even if you were to shake them off, change your attire -completely-, were to slap on some tattoos and moved to a completely different part of town.

I know, suspension of disbelief, etc, etc, but.. A man can dream, he can.

[Maso]

I actually don't think that's codedly possible with this system.

Ok...I'm not a coder so I don't really understand...wouldn't it be like having multiple finger slots for rings? Except they are covered by the glove slot? So multiple throat slots get covered by neck slots?

[hatchets]

All I wanna say is, if Masks are ever changed back to changing descriptions, I want "take mask (target)" so I can just snatch it off your face and see who you are.

[RogueGunslinger]

Power emotes made into commands?

lol no thanks

[Nyr]

I'll state, there are Mdesc covering COSTUMES.

I'll state:  you're absolutely wrong, or you've witnessed a bug.  Please put in a request about whatever this mdesc covering thing is, because it shouldn't be there.

[Hot_Dancer]

I have not seen a mask that swaps out your mdesc with the mask's desc since playing in the Black Moon.

[Lizzie]

I have not seen a mask that swaps out your mdesc with the mask's desc since playing in the Black Moon.

There were a bunch of them maybe, 3 years ago? I was playing a Kadian agent at the time and identified them, and Nyr and I think Senga reconfigured them so they wouldn't do that anymore. I'm sure there were others before that, and some that I missed and someone else got after me.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually don't think that's codedly possible with this system.

Ok...I'm not a coder so I don't really understand...wouldn't it be like having multiple finger slots for rings? Except they are covered by the glove slot? So multiple throat slots get covered by neck slots?

In Diku, I believe there are a finite number of slots before the system starts to malfunction. I'm not positive, so I could easily be horribly wrong, but on a base I was messing with back in the day, I think the number was 32.

Now, Maso, you are correct. Technically, one could simply add a slot for the gem, and necklaces, and whatnot, and then have it covered by a throat or neck worn object. And as long as we are not at the finite number, or there is no finite number, I'd absolutely support such an addition.

[MeTekillot]

Aren't the various tattoo locations counted as slots as well, though?

[Feco]

Aren't the various tattoo locations counted as slots as well, though?

Seems that way, though we can't know if they're the same codewise.

It would be a really big deal, I think, given the nature of the gem, to just make it a tattoo like item.

But we're getting off topic...  New thread?