How do city elves travel?

[Patuk]

There is only one kind of elf who wishes to join a tribe, and it is called a 'breed'.

[Nyr]

There is only one kind of elf who wishes to join a tribe, and it is called a 'breed'.

In case it isn't clear (or in case you are serious), both city-elf tribes that are staff-supported/coded do receive new numbers from outsiders if they choose to do so.

[titansfan]

City elves can move from city-state to city-state. Just because they are comfortable within the gates doesn't mean they will not travel if they have to. They can use mounts to pack things and carry it with them. Most of the times they will generally prepare long in advance for such a thing if they have the intentions. Bringing a tent, five skins of water, food supply, a pair of guards. Even a tribeless elf can put people through tests and a trip between city states with a relative strange elf would be a major test. A tribeless elf is far from boring and uninteresting...all the things you can make others do to prove some kind of trust. That is what an elf is about anyways.

[Harmless]

I would guess a lot of the people in here with strong opinions on elves... tribeless elves are boring to play, that elves can't travel outside cities, that tribeless elves can't join tribes (or at least be associated with them closely) and so on... have not ever played a city elf very long.

[kayza]

If your goal is to win the game playing a human over an elf is a better idea.  As you can make a human that pretty much is an elf without the stamp of I am a sneaky bastard on their face.  But people don't choose elves because they are "better".   

If a city elf will travel I think depends on the city elf.  But the coded difficulty of it I just think reinforces that they are a city elf.  It isn't balanced but again that is not why people play elves.

[titansfan]

I love how city elves are. They have their coded advantages -within- the city. Just like d-elves have in the wilderness. It's balanced in a 'thats yours, this is mine sort of way'. And all elves aren't sneaky, persay, but they are definitely conniving and clever. Even a stupid elf has the initiative and capability to fool someone. It's in their blood just like how muls like to beat people's faces into their boots or 'gickers curse anyone who passes them.

[Synthesis]

I would guess a lot of the people in here with strong opinions on elves... tribeless elves are boring to play, that elves can't travel outside cities, that tribeless elves can't join tribes (or at least be associated with them closely) and so on... have not ever played a city elf very long.

I've played a ton of city elves.  The only ones that mattered were the two that ended up in the Jaxa Pah (or one of its precursors).  However, both times, it ended up being as a result of what I believe was a fairly cheesy initiation process that was mainly driven by OOC desire to have Bros.  I don't think I would do it that way again.  The only way I'd play a city-elf is as a member of one of those groups prior to application, because every time someone has joined from the outside, it's felt cheap and stupid.

I'm just saying:  playing an elf without a tribe is like playing a dwarf without a focus.  It completely defeats the purpose of the character concept, because you've excised the primary attribute that the race is predicated on.  I'm guessing this is part of the reason you can no longer apply for tribeless desert-elves, and I imagine they'd like to do the same for city-elves, but there just isn't a multi-tribal infrastructure in place that would be amenable to that.  Currently, if you app a solo city-elf, the only reason to do it is to play a very agile human with the hope of maybe being able to join one of the current tribes (which shouldn't be a reasonable hope at all ICly, but is quite reasonable, given OOC considerations).

[chrisdcoulombe]

City elves will travel to relocate.  They walk and if careful can walk pretty easily even though it takes a bit longer.  If in serious trouble they would leave their origin, preferably with their tribe.  If death was imminent and there was no foreseeable way out of it they would go on their own or with someone close to them.  

[titansfan]

From Synthesis:

I've played a ton of city elves.  The only ones that mattered were the two that ended up in the Jaxa Pah (or one of its precursors).  However, both times, it ended up being as a result of what I believe was a fairly cheesy initiation process that was mainly driven by OOC desire to have Bros.  I don't think I would do it that way again.  The only way I'd play a city-elf is as a member of one of those groups prior to application, because every time someone has joined from the outside, it's felt cheap and stupid.

I do agree with this. I had a hard time standing the initiation process when within a c-elven mindset, even as a leader it was very odd and awkward. I find it hard to believe that a large alliance would want anyone coming in to taint their current standing, let alone become someone of authority within the ranks. But I do find the fun in being a loner finding other loners and testing them and eventually becoming close. Trusting one other elf is one thing, trusting a whole group is another.

[Harmless]

I think spec apping elves should be the norm, not the exception, in order to be tribed and thus "real elves," but through what should be a fun and also slow, painful process, it is and should be possible to join tribes as a tribeless elf, of course, with the likely caveat that leadership could never be attained. Both are fun and have merits, but some people in this thread were saying otherwise; it stands that Synthesis' post should be heeded.

[Nyr]

Race Elf                                                        (Character)

   Elves are the second most populous race on the face of Zalanthas,
closely following humans. They are taller than humans--mostly standing
between around 74 and 90 inches in height--and tend to have slim, light
frames. Skin color ranges from nearly black to pale cream colors; hair is
typically dark but shares a similar range of hues. Eye color among elves
is a matter of extraordinary variability. Elven ears are always pointed,
and their eyes always almond-shaped. There are two varieties of elves: city
elves and desert elves.  One of these varieties sucks.
   City elves are scattered across the settled places of Zalanthas, and
have adapted to live by their wits. True to the nature of elves they also
live by their quick fingers, and are usually avoided by the honest citizens
of other races. Some city elves are members of tribes camped in some run-
down space within its walls; others lead shiftless lives with no ties of
loyalty at all.  There is no space for roleplay between the two previous
positions.
   Desert elves are nearly always members of desert tribes, and wander
freely about the wastes hunting for what they need. (unless they're Red Fangs,
then they're dead--amirite?  lol) They tend to be darker
in skin color than city elves, as well as leaner and more muscular, but
not necessarily stronger. Elves are very long-limbed, and desert elves are
runners by nature, capable of a prolonged run across most types of terrain.
   The differences between city elves and desert elves are only the result
of their differing lifestyles--there is only one elven race.  All elves suck, though.

Roleplaying:
   Descended from (or currently a member of) any one of the many desert
tribes, all elves have a cultural bent towards wandering and thievery.
Among elves, theft that relies on wit or nimble fingers is not a crime,
per se, but more of a test of courage. Highly distrustful of all persons
outside their immediate tribe, elves will often go to great lengths to
test the trustworthiness of any companion. However, they will not go
to great lengths to test the trustworthiness of elves that seek to join
their tribe.  That'd be silly and not in-character at all.  They also wouldn't
actually trust anyone that was tested in this fashion. That'd be silly, too.   
Due to their nature as runners, all elves find the riding of mounts (and usually,
riding in wagons) to be an extremely shameful act--though a few can
forgive the riding habits of other races. In other words, elves will never ride
on mounts or in wagons, as to do so would be to insult one of the few
things they are proud of: their natural speed and endurance on the run.
Because of this, elves suck.  It is known.

Notes:
   Elves are not strong -- in comparison to most of the other humanoid
races of Zalanthas, they are quite weak.  They possess other abilities
to compensate.  If you are not happy running a character that is
physically weak, you are advised not to choose this race.
Desert elves are not readily available to new players, but city elves
are. Prioritizing strength last and then asking for a strength boost
usually results in a "dude, you didn't read the helpfile" answer.

let me know if this is good or not

[bcw81]

I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.

[titansfan]

All this stuffs that made me LOL.

let me know if this is good or not

Not what I -personally- was trying to get at....but it made me laugh pretty hard.

[Yam]

Elfs suk pee on them

[Is Friday]

I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.

In my experience, dogpiling onto what Synth has said about celves, sometimes it becomes "who has the most useful skills for the tribe"? Which isn't necessarily in line with docs, imo. You shouldn't be making concessions for mastercrafter celves or awesome backstabbers because you "found a way to make them useful". That just seems like a cop-out for getting more bros in your clique.

[Iiyola]

It ticks me off personally when I see d-elves act like c-elves and vice versa.

Yes, there are many reasons why a d-elf would be in a city and a c-elf outside the walls, but at least act accordingly. The desert isn't the natural habitat of a c-elf and can be damn scary, especially if you go out for the first few times and actually see the beasts of which you've only seen hides before.

Same with the d-elves: some may have to trade and work within the walls, but it doesn't take away the walls feel like a cage and the crowds in taverns may feel threatening.

That's just my point of view, correct me if I'm wrong.

[bcw81]

I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.

In my experience, dogpiling onto what Synth has said about celves, sometimes it becomes "who has the most useful skills for the tribe"? Which isn't necessarily in line with docs, imo. You shouldn't be making concessions for mastercrafter celves or awesome backstabbers because you "found a way to make them useful". That just seems like a cop-out for getting more bros in your clique.

Oh no no, I agree fully. I'm just saying that an elf who has proven him/herself and become a member of the tribe shouldn't be held back by that silly roundear thing called a 'bloodline'.

[Is Friday]

Iiyola: I was playing a delf at one point that was invited to stick it out with a celf tribe while my dude was the "diplomat" of said delf tribe for a premeditated amount of time. I sent in the request via character reports, etc, let whoever needed to know, know. My PC was told to act like being within the walls was the worst thing ever, and TBH at the time I wasn't too invested into the roleplay because I'm sometimes not much of a solo-RPer. Anyway, a couple weeks later Nyr gives me a "wtf?" and does a 180 on whichever random staffer told me it was okay back when it got originally approved.

I kind of expected the idea to be rejected by the staff originally, and was surprised my PC was approved to go ahead and hang out with celves in the city to begin with. Definitely not a gripe on Nyr or whoever, just pointing out that the likelihood of delves being "kosher" within the city is pretty farfetched with some/most delf cultures. Kind of more a find out IC thing, as cultures will vary as will circumstances.

[Nyr]

It ticks me off personally when I see d-elves act like c-elves and vice versa.

Yes, there are many reasons why a d-elf would be in a city and a c-elf outside the walls, but at least act accordingly. The desert isn't the natural habitat of a c-elf and can be damn scary, especially if you go out for the first few times and actually see the beasts of which you've only seen hides before.

Same with the d-elves: some may have to trade and work within the walls, but it doesn't take away the walls feel like a cage and the crowds in taverns may feel threatening.

That's just my point of view, correct me if I'm wrong.

Desert elf players have documentation for their tribes as well as staff--same with city elf players.  If there's an issue, address it with staff, though you can generally assume that there are docs available for them that you do not have access to.

Iiyola: I was playing a delf at one point that was invited to stick it out with a celf tribe while my dude was the "diplomat" of said delf tribe for a premeditated amount of time. I sent in the request via character reports, etc, let whoever needed to know, know. My PC was told to act like being within the walls was the worst thing ever, and TBH at the time I wasn't too invested into the roleplay because I'm sometimes not much of a solo-RPer. Anyway, a couple weeks later Nyr gives me a "wtf?" and does a 180 on whichever random staffer told me it was okay back when it got originally approved.

I kind of expected the idea to be rejected by the staff originally, and was surprised my PC was approved to go ahead and hang out with celves in the city to begin with. Definitely not a gripe on Nyr or whoever, just pointing out that the likelihood of delves being "kosher" within the city is pretty farfetched with some/most delf cultures. Kind of more a find out IC thing, as cultures will vary as will circumstances.

If you reference the request in question again you'll see exactly what happened, why it happened, and why it was changed.

[Is Friday]

If you reference the request in question again you'll see exactly what happened, why it happened, and why it was changed.

Ah, yeah, I'm aware of why it went down--just didn't want to post specifics on clan docs as to the who-what-where. In retrospect, I'm pretty happy with how the correspondence went considering what happened the previous time someone said "I wasn't doing something in accordance with docs". 

[Twilight]

I would guess that the reference in the helpfile was put in there a long time ago, in reference to an ability I don't think celves have anymore.  Or I could be smoking something.

I think it would be easy enough to replicate the delf concept for celves, and with a little building/coding/documentmaking make it most celves are part of a tribe.

Make ten tribes of various socioeconomic status, five for Tuluk, five for Allanak.  Give each two rooms, one that is their start room and "tribal gathering place" past a guard so that you can tell that a particular elf is actually in your tribe.  In the app process, make a selection of what tribe they are...which in turn dictates their start room.  One selection for tribeless.  Give them some docs.  Presto.

Don't give them the support/rooms/extras that the current coded city elf tribes enjoy.  I was actually disappointed when those two were implemented, precisely because you can't simply join them in chargen, get out and go.

[Zoan]

The elegant solution is to just pretend elves don't exist.

[Clan Des Tine]

All someone has to do to see that desert races do, in fact, live in cities, is visit tribal markets. They are the exception, but there are plenty of NPC examples of desert folk living within walls.

[hyzhenhok]

All someone has to do to see that desert races do, in fact, live in cities, is visit tribal markets. They are the exception, but there are plenty of NPC examples of desert folk living within walls.

Some tribals will go to the cities for commerce. That doesn't mean they permanently live there. This is one part of the world where you have to take the permanent, persistent NPCs with a grain of salt; who is in the tribal market and what is for sale should theoretically ICly shift from week to week, but due to the reality of the game code you have to use some suspension of disbelief.

[Dar]

Celves are my favourite roles to play. Although the methods both JP and Akai Sjir have to bring in elves from outside 'is' a little wonky. Yes, there is an effort put in and it makes it somewhat bearable.

The way current Celf tribes work, there 'is' a need for a little suspension of disbelief to gloss over the whole recruitment part. It's very annoying, but otherwise a fact of life. I still didnt figure out how to do it successfully.