Tuluki Tattoos.

[Trance]

At what age would someone born in Tuluk receive their tattoo's?

[bcw81]

I've always wondered this myself. At least, for the star and the band. For other Tuluki tattoos, one should find out IC.

[Trance]

Yeah, only care about the star and band.

[Yam]

It'd probably be best to get your kids inked before they did anything on their own. So most Tulukis would probably get the tattoos between birth and, oh, five or so years of age.

[Jeshin]

In Zalanthas at least as far as I've seen, children are not named until at least 1 year after birth. So following this apparent IC trend, I wouldn't be getting inkings until age 2 at the earliest.

[bcw81]

In Zalanthas at least as far as I've seen, children are not named until at least 1 year after birth. So following this apparent IC trend, I wouldn't be getting inkings until age 2 at the earliest.

Where do you get this idea from? I've seen plenty of IC children named at birth, which would negate your anecdotal conclusion.

It'd probably be best to get your kids inked before they did anything on their own. So most Tulukis would probably get the tattoos between birth and, oh, five or so years of age.

But skin stretches over time. If a child got the ink at < 5 then by the time they were 18 the tattoo would look terrible. Which is why it's an odd concept. Even at ages like 12 and such the body is still growing. Up until like... Say, age 16 or so I would say that there is going to be too much change in the body to get a tattoo that wont look horrible by the time they're an adult. (Even if they were to get it corrected.

[Yam]

It'd probably be best to get your kids inked before they did anything on their own. So most Tulukis would probably get the tattoos between birth and, oh, five or so years of age.

But skin stretches over time. If a child got the ink at < 5 then by the time they were 18 the tattoo would look terrible. Which is why it's an odd concept. Even at ages like 12 and such the body is still growing. Up until like... Say, age 16 or so I would say that there is going to be too much change in the body to get a tattoo that wont look horrible by the time they're an adult. (Even if they were to get it corrected.

The tattoos fade over time and need to be re-inked. There may or may not be a document talking about how fresh and bright ones tattoos are correlates to their social standing and what not but I can't remember for sure.

[Taven]

It'd probably be best to get your kids inked before they did anything on their own. So most Tulukis would probably get the tattoos between birth and, oh, five or so years of age.

But skin stretches over time. If a child got the ink at < 5 then by the time they were 18 the tattoo would look terrible. Which is why it's an odd concept. Even at ages like 12 and such the body is still growing. Up until like... Say, age 16 or so I would say that there is going to be too much change in the body to get a tattoo that wont look horrible by the time they're an adult. (Even if they were to get it corrected.

The tattoos fade over time and need to be re-inked. There may or may not be a document talking about how fresh and bright ones tattoos are correlates to their social standing and what not but I can't remember for sure.

I could find no mention of the fading of tattoos over time on the site, although that does sound neat.

Here's what I did find:

General Information on Tuluki Tattoos (does not answer question)
Sanvean's Answer to When Tuluki Get Citizen Tattoos
Tlaloc's Opinion on When Tuluki Get Citizen Tattoos

[Tenua]

I like Tlaloc's explination best. I also agree with Sanvean that I picture it on the backs of the hands, not the palms. Unlikely Sanvean, I pictures it on BOTH hands, not just one.

[Trance]

Hm, I like Tlaloc's explination too.

In saying that, if a person is born in Tuluk, but leaves the city for whatever reason to live elsewhere before getting the tattoos, are they still citizens?

[bcw81]

If they have the tattoos? Yes.

If not, then they're dirty southern witch mindbenders, and they should be treated with the utmost candleja-

[Bebop]

I always imagined it being a coming of age thing like a Quinceanera or Bar Mitzvah or something mother's who could afford it did to their children like how babies get their ears pierced.  Some might wait until their children could understand, some might wait until their hands were developed so they could fight off illness if they got sick from the rudimentary tattoo process in Zalanthas.  I don't imagine parents would wait long though as they wouldn't want their children to be seen akin to half breeds without their citizen inks.  Also, who would want gossip to start about the parent's loyalties or the origins of their children if they went to long without having their children marked.

[solera]

Are there any young Tuluki NPCs on the streets to look over?

[maxid]

find out IC.

There are also docs on this.  As tattoos are a very large part of Tuluki culture, and are considered common knowledge, as identifying marks and brands, finding out IC is not always the best route for playing a Tuluki character as it could lead to, unrealistic, IC consequences.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/tattoos/

You can find out a lot of information there on when/how some of the tattoos are earned.  Obviously some of the more obscure ones may require learning about IC, however knowledge of tattoos, where you get them, and why, is a part of the docs, and this a part of the OOC knowledge base that is required to accurately play a Tuluki character.


As far as the star and stripes, I believe it is quite young, and have always played it as such, and seen it played as such.  Someone mentioned the age of 2?  And I'd say that sounds about right.  Long enough to know the kid isn't going to just up and die after you spend a, relatively, large amount of coins getting him inked.  However, after reading Tlaloc's post I might rethink that for my next Tuluki character.

[Eurynomos]

Kinda like a circumcision.

[SpyGuy]

People have made a good point about the distortion a growing body would cause.  I'd think though that kids could get a tiny version of the tattoos when really young and that those could be covered or touched up as they reach a certain age and it starts looking like crap.

[PurpleParrot]

People have made a good point about the distortion a growing body would cause.  I'd think though that kids could get a tiny version of the tattoos when really young and that those could be covered or touched up as they reach a certain age and it starts looking like crap.

Ohh, that's a really good thought. I'm glad this subject was brought up; it hadn't even crossed my mind.

[Karieith]

Sorry for bumping this but I had a few more questions about the tattoos, citizenship and views.

We've established tattoos are not an automatic thing, parents probably wait awhile. I've also heard that you have to pay for your tattoos. Yet, beggers and poor NPCs appear to have tattoos which either means the tattoos aren't costly or the rumor of tattoos having a cost is rubbish.

So my questions.

"All Tuluki citizens bear a tattoo of a blue and purple inked band somewhere on their head, face, neck, or upper shoulders, signifying their origin in Gol Krathu. Beyond that, each bears a caste-specific tattoo."

Is a person who was born within Gol Krathu but not within Tuluk a Tuluki citizen (and also have the hand tattoos?) Or can you have a person just with the blue and purple band? Are the blue and purple band a Tuluki Citizen Only thing?

Is someone with just a band (if they can exist) treated differently than someone with both band and hand tattoos in Tuluk?

Finally, what is the actual view of non-inked tribals and outsiders in Tuluk. Are they viewed as sub-human beings that a Tuluki shouldn't be fraternizing with? Or are there exceptions? I've had a couple IC encounters where I was lead to believe that Inked Citizens of Tuluk debase themselves when they fraternize with uninked.

[maxid]

Sorry for bumping this but I had a few more questions about the tattoos, citizenship and views.

We've established tattoos are not an automatic thing, parents probably wait awhile. I've also heard that you have to pay for your tattoos. Yet, beggers and poor NPCs appear to have tattoos which either means the tattoos aren't costly or the rumor of tattoos having a cost is rubbish.

So my questions.

"All Tuluki citizens bear a tattoo of a blue and purple inked band somewhere on their head, face, neck, or upper shoulders, signifying their origin in Gol Krathu. Beyond that, each bears a caste-specific tattoo."

Is a person who was born within Gol Krathu but not within Tuluk a Tuluki citizen (and also have the hand tattoos?) Or can you have a person just with the blue and purple band? Are the blue and purple band a Tuluki Citizen Only thing?

Is someone with just a band (if they can exist) treated differently than someone with both band and hand tattoos in Tuluk?

Finally, what is the actual view of non-inked tribals and outsiders in Tuluk. Are they viewed as sub-human beings that a Tuluki shouldn't be fraternizing with? Or are there exceptions? I've had a couple IC encounters where I was lead to believe that Inked Citizens of Tuluk debase themselves when they fraternize with uninked.

Yes, I believe that some tribals get the Gol Krathu inks but not the star.  And they would be treated as non-citizens, however, they would likely be tolerated far better than someone without either.

Someone may correct me, but I believe that's how it is.

[Taven]

Is a person who was born within Gol Krathu but not within Tuluk a Tuluki citizen (and also have the hand tattoos?) Or can you have a person just with the blue and purple band? Are the blue and purple band a Tuluki Citizen Only thing?

If a person is born within Gol Krathu but not in Tuluk itself, then they are not a Tuluki citizen (unless there's some sort of extenuating circumstances, or whatever). As Maxid says, there are tribes in Gol Krathu, and they would not be considered citzens without a star tattoo. I do not know if they get a neckband or not; it probably varies.

If you look into it a little more, this thread would seem to suggest that the purpose of a neckband is to distinguish between Tuluki citizens who were born in Tuluk, and Tuluki citizens who later earned their citizenship, but were born outside of the city.

Is someone with just a band (if they can exist) treated differently than someone with both band and hand tattoos in Tuluk?

Yes, they would be treated as a non-citizen. If such an individual existed, it would be clear at least that they were native to the area, but not a citizen. This would likely mean better treatment then other foreigners, but that they would still be treated as an outsider, and not hired on by any of the groups who only hire citizens.

Finally, what is the actual view of non-inked tribals and outsiders in Tuluk. Are they viewed as sub-human beings that a Tuluki shouldn't be fraternizing with? Or are there exceptions? I've had a couple IC encounters where I was lead to believe that Inked Citizens of Tuluk debase themselves when they fraternize with uninked.

This question is actually not really on the tattoo subject anymore, and might be worthy of its own thread. That said, I will try to answer it for you.

[link]

Associating with the 'wrong crowd' (which, in Tuluk, includes magickers and southerners) can also cause a negative impact.

There's various interpretations for what the "wrong crowd" is, which is part of the reason why this question may deserve its own thread. Also, there are different levels of association. It may be that it's okay to be friends with a tribal, but maybe kanking them wild is looked down upon. The highest, most well-thought of PC would likely only have intimate relationships with other Tuluki. The actual rules of association and conduct I would imagine varies PC to PC.

[marko]

I figured I'd chime in on this discussion.

The Gol Krathu is the region bounded by the Scaien Walls.

As per (the outdated) description of it:

http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/gol%20krathu

The tribes of the Gol Krathu live within Tuluk.   There are many tribes within Tuluk.

If you are born within the Gol Krathu that means you were born within the Domain of the Sun King.  That means, in essence, that you are subject of the Sun King.  This could be considered to be Citizenship.  I would suspect that any Templar would definitely consider someone born within the Gol Krathu to be subject of all aspects of Tuluki law and taxation.

To quote explicitly from the tattoo documentation:

All Tuluki citizens bear a tattoo of a blue and purple inked band somewhere on their head, face, neck, or upper shoulders, signifying their origin in Gol Krathu. Beyond that, each bears a caste-specific tattoo.

So if you are marked with the blue and purple you are a citizen.  Bolded to make this very clear.  Unless something has changed and there is a documentation update required this is how it was planned and is. 

As to the when someone gets this tattoo I am in total agreement with Tlaloc (especially he's one of the prime architects of the modern Tuluki culture.)

The tattoo of the six-pronged star is relevant only to unaffiliated commoners.  It does not denote citizenship as such instead if says, "I am a free agent."

The tattoos of Tuluk can be treated like the story of someone living there.  They are a visual historical narrative of someone's life.    But, this isn't what everyone in Tuluk does. 

As an example,

Let's say you are a tribal and were born within the Gol Krathu.  You would get the blue and purple.

Chances are, since you are a tribal of Tuluk, you'd get a tribal specific tattoo as well.  Let's say it's an bahamet shell for fun.

So, this character starts off life with:  Blue and purple around the neck.  Bahamet shell on hands.

This person goes and gets hired by Kadius.  They put the Kadian purple ring tattoo on their left wrist.  After some time, this person also becomes an assassin.

They put the assassin mark on their right wrist.  A few years later, the person leaves Kadius and Salarr brings them on.  The person gets the grey ring tattoo on their forearms (some people might want to try and wipe out their Kadian tattoo instead, it's up to the individual, I would suggest it's a matter of memories the person has of that chapter of their life.)

After a few years, the person leaves Salarr and goes it alone as the majority of Tuluki artisans live.  (I'm throwing that in on purpose - the majority of Tuluki artisans have patrons are are not -hired- by any House).  This person gains the patronage of House Kassigarh.  Now they get the gold and white circle. 

At a glance, someone could look at this person, and read their history. 

There isn't a 'proper' order in how to layer the tattoos.  I've always done the start with the hands and work up the body with the most recent tattoo being higher up on the body but that's me.

As added thought to the question posed about how to deal with the un-inked.

Tulukis prefer Tulukis to anyone.

How each individual views tribals is a matter for that individual.  A lot of Tuluk's population is either tribal or heavily influenced by tribes.   But, which tribes are preferred?  That's up to the individual.  I've played with a rule of thumb that the closer the tribe's origins are to Tuluk the more they'd understand Tuluk and, through understanding, make interacting with them easier.

But, I haven't seen how Tuluk's society and culture has evolved since I was involved with the Noble Houses.  It's been a long while and lots can, and probably has, changed.  Culture in Armageddon has fluidity and will change over time. 

[Delusion]

You only get the House tattoos if you're lifesworn to a House. That's been my experience, at least.

The most common in-game usage of Gol Krathu, whether it's correct or not, is to refer to Muk's entire domain, including the Grasslands, scrub, and Grey Forest, not just the bit within the Scaien Wall.

[boog]

You only get the House tattoos if you're lifesworn to a House. That's been my experience, at least.

The most common in-game usage of Gol Krathu, whether it's correct or not, is to refer to Muk's entire domain, including the Grasslands, scrub, and Grey Forest, not just the bit within the Scaien Wall.

Hm. Plenty of non-lifesworn I've run into in game have had the ring tattoos - mostly because they're free from some NPCs, I believe, and hey, it shows affiliation as well as any piece of equipment or attire would.

[Barsook]

It's basically a choice to have that tattoo.

[marko]

You only get the House tattoos if you're lifesworn to a House. That's been my experience, at least.

The most common in-game usage of Gol Krathu, whether it's correct or not, is to refer to Muk's entire domain, including the Grasslands, scrub, and Grey Forest, not just the bit within the Scaien Wall.

As I wrote, things change over time.  What was originally intended isn't always what happens.  If that's how the Houses are currently operating and that's how the staff want it then that's how it is    But, how it was originally intended was that if you were affiliated with a House then that House would ink you. 

When references to the Gol Krathu occur in the documentation then that is what it refers to so people with the purple and blue are Citizens.

How players use it in the game is a matter of change as well.