Ideas on Banking

[Desertman]

I have a couple of ideas here I want to discuss.

A) Universal Banking
B) Free Banking
C) Universal Currency


Universal Banking:

It has always kind of bothered me that I can deposit 5,000 coins into Nenyuk in Allanak, then ride up to Tuluk and withdraw 5,000 coins when I get there.

I understand that the general idea is probably, "We all have the ability to communicate across great distances with just our thoughts. The Allanaki clerk just Ways the Tuluki clerk and they confirm your account balance and give you the coins."

I get that, its a good IC excuse to explain the way the game mechanic works. I just feel like the game mechanic its self is possibly an old relic and could use some attention to add to the realism/enjoyment of the game in general.

I just wish there was more risk involved with transporting great fortunes across the desert.

What if your account balances in Tuluk were not the same as your account balances in Allanak, or Luir's, for example. If you wanted to transport your great salting fortune from Allanak to Tuluk, it wouldn't magically transfer at no charge, you would have to go withdraw it, hire mercenaries you could trust, and then transport your 33,000 coins across the desert and hope noone has heard you are doing it and planned to ambush you on the way.

Isn't that a lot more fun than instant universal risk free banking?

What if Nenyuk would instant transfer your account balance for you by communicating with other clerks in another city via the Way, but they charged you a percentage of the amount being transferred for it?

A Allanaki clerk says in southern-accented Sirihish, "Nenyuk has graciously coinfirmed your balance and transferred 10,000 coins from your account in Tuluk to your account in Allanak for you. After handling and processing costs your final tansfer amount is 7,000 coins."

That seems like true Zalanthas banking, which in my mind should resemble loan sharking much more than it currently does.

Getting ahead of myself there though. The basic concept, no instant risk free transfers of great fortunes from city to city. I would love a chance to raid people transporting their fortunes. Put spies in a merchant House to find out when they will be transporting the fortune. Heck, even be part of a merchant House and arrange to let raiders know when to hit us and then take a cut of what they stole after the fact.

There is a lot of potential for a lot of fun here that I think we are missing out on by doing things the way we currently do.

Free Banking:

There may be some in-game explanation for why Nenyuk offers what seems to be a free service to the populace of Zalanthas, but because I don't know what that reason is, it just looks like a free service to me.

There might not be free drinks of water in Zalanthas, but there is free banking, or at least it appears that way.

I guess one explanation might be that with the high rate of  mortality in the population a lot of bank balances get absorbed by Nenyuk/taken over when their owners die and this is how Nenyuk makes a lot of profit. I agree, that makes perfect sense actually.

That being said, its still not very much fun and doesn't seem to add anything to the game, and there is a lot of potential to add to the game here.

As already mentioned, I would love to see Nenyuk charge you a fee for transferring your account balances from city to city, but that would require the end of universal banking so we won't go into that anymore.

What if Nenyuk charged you a monthly fee for "handling" your account balances for you? What would be a proper Zalanthan banking fee for a commoner's account? Twenty percent? Thirty percent? What if being a member of a House got you a break on these fees? It would make House employment that much more appealing. And of course Houses in general, both Noble and Merchant would receive big cuts, or possibly still receive free banking.

What if being a breed or an elf made your banking fees higher? Hmmm. So on and so forth.

That being said, if Nenyuk charges you a monthly fee, why even leave your coins with Nenyuk? Well obviously because Nenyuk's guards make sure your balance stays where its at, and not in the pockets of thieves and raiders right? You let Nenyuk take its thirty percent every month and in return the world of cuthroats dont get the full one hundred percent, and possibly your life in the process of taking it. That seems very Zalanthan to me.

This would open up a window for things like, crime bosses and loansharks providing a under the table banking setup for a slightly lower monthly fee or people choosing to keep their fortunes on their person, or under lock and key somewhere else. But you know, locks aren't perfect, and you can't always trust the people you hire to guard your fortune for you. Thats the risk, and everything in Zalanthas should have some sort of risk.


Universal Currency:

Why does Tuluk still use an Allanaki currency? Furthermore, why does Tuluk use a currency made from obsidian, a resource that is not exactly plentiful in their location.

I would rather see this switched over to, An obsidian coin and A agafari coin (or whatever Tuluk decides to use, wood seems fitting in my mind though).

Aside from the fact that I think it would just look neat, it would open up a window for more in-depth world wide economics in game.

Things like;

What if Luir's is on the rocks with Allanak politically? Suddenly the value of the obsidian coin is half of what it used to be in Luir's.

Since Allanak and Tuluk are always on the rocks politically, what if the value of the obisidian coin is half of what it is in Allanak?

What if Allanaki merchants won't even accept Tuluki currency and vice versa?

I know, this would take a ton of coding and time and probably wouldn't be worth it, but it would be kind of neat in my mind.

What if you had to go visit a money changer that charged you a fee for changing your currency for you? What if PC money changers who charged a slightly lower fee suddenly came into existence and made their fortunes that way? What if...what if...

Anyways, just another idea but one that i realize would be a lot of work.

I'm done now.

[My 2 sids]

Nenyuk knows what it's doing, doesn't need to change.


However, you bring up two great ideas for folks to take IC:

Loansharks and "why do we have universal currency?"

[bcw81]

As a note: Arabic culture back in the day (I don't remember how long ago, but a long ass time ago) had a banking system where they would get stone slabs with the bank's mark, the amount in their account, and all that jazz. They could then exchange that token anywhere, and it was fairly hard to forge.

[Desertman]

Nenyuk knows what it's doing, doesn't need to change.


However, you bring up two great ideas for folks to take IC:

Loansharks and "why do we have universal currency?"

I don't disagree.

The change isn't needed.

My arguement is it might be wanted...

Maybe not, just putting it out there.

[Kinther]

I'm sure there is some reason why Nenyuk does not charge (the high mortality rate has already been mentioned), but to be honest I would think it has something to do with re-investing the money in their banks elsewhere.  Most banks today don't just sit on the money that is in their coffers; they loan it out to others with the promise of some sort of return.  Being the only reputable bank in the Known and not charging anything for their services would guarantee a monopoly, thus allowing Nenyuk to do as they wish with the vast amounts of money they have.  Maybe I'm thinking of things in terms of modern day banking, but it would seem like a logical explanation for why they don't charge.

As far as universal currency goes, I really don't have a good reason why Tuluk has not tried to establish their own currency, other than perhaps they don't want to lose the support of Nenyuk by doing so.  Maybe the Nenyuk have stomped out any attempt to form what they consider competition to their way of life?

(starting to feel like there may be a banking conspiracy here guys)

[Talia]

Nenyuk rents out all those apartments, remember?

Truth be told, "banks" in Zalanthas are nearly totally an OOC convenience for the playerbase. This is also why there's just one coin system. Portability of coins makes for playability.

[Incognito]

I've given this subject some thought in the past, here are my views:

a) Nenyuk doesn't charge to store your money, because you're giving it to them free of cost, and without asking for any collateral in return.
b) Whatever administrative and incidental expenses Nenyuk might incur to store/transfer your funds, is more than amply offset by the vast number of accounts that become inactive - due to the deaths of their owners.
c) Since accounts are not transferrable (except in certain special cases) - these deaths result in a blanket net gain for Nenyuk.
d) Most importantly - Nenyuk doesn't charge YOU anything is because Nenyuk doesn't lend you money in the first place. (I am sure there are virtual transactions between Nenyuk and other houses where loans are taken and interest charges are paid, or payment is made to Nenyuk in kind - i.e. favors, sanctions etc). So yes - while it might appear as a "free" service to most people, it actually isn't, its a hard-core money-making business strategy!
e) Talia mentioned the OOC convenience for the playerbase as far as universal currency is concerned, but, I'll add to this - if you think about it real hard, you'll also reach the same conclusion - it IS in Nenyuk's best interest too - to have a universal currency - there's no headaches of exchange rates, transporting hard currency from one location to another, other logistics etc etc. I am purposely not going into what the two City-States might prefer - as that is an entirely different issue.
f) On a similar note, it is in Nenyuk's best interest to offer the "feature" or "facility" of universal banking (inter-City-State banking so to speak) so as to retain their global monopoly on the money-trade.
g) As far as loansharks, money-lenders, financiers are concerned, I am again quite sure there are quite a few independent operators in different parts of the Known World, each with their niche markets, and their own unique methods of ensuring the safety of their funds.
h) It is my personal speculation that Nenyuk's unique ties with both the City-States, arises of a two-fold purpose. Firstly, Nenyuk is the foremost agency in the Known World to successfully manage large sums of money so it is natural that the City-States entrust the activity of renting property, collecting rent, forwarding rent to authorities etc etc to this competent agency (probably the first instance of job outsourcing in the history of Zalanthas). And secondly, I imagine that since the City-States might have borrowed money from Nenyuk from time to time, allowing Nenyuk to manage the properties within the City-States and collecting rent - might be a way of paying back installments to Nenyuk.
i) As far as Nenyuk is concerned, this arrangement with both the City-States would be an ideal arrangement - if anyone defaults on their loans, Nenyuk would only have to tell the concerned authorities in the respective City-State to get the debt collected/settled.

All in all, I see it as a perfect fit - one which works seamlessly for Zalanthas.

[Incognito]

On a completely different note - getting into the REAL nitty-gritty of Arm economics - one would logically and eventually reach to the question - how much currency can each City-State mint?

Is it a reflection of that City-State's metal deposits? Is it a reflection of that City-State's spice deposits?

How does either of the City-States ensure that the other doesn't mint extra coinage and devalue the currency totally?


You may contemplate such lofty ideas and more - but unfortunately, this is where THE line is drawn - find out IC

Edited to add: Please try to pursue this and other such lines of enquiry ICLY at your OWN risk - as the chances of acquiring such information and living are lower than you walking naked and unarmed from the Silt Sea to the Grey Forest and back, on foot, without food and water.

[Desertman]

Nenyuk rents out all those apartments, remember?

Truth be told, "banks" in Zalanthas are nearly totally an OOC convenience for the playerbase. This is also why there's just one coin system. Portability of coins makes for playability.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking.

I was hoping to figure out a way to make it more of a REAL thing for the game world and its economy. I mean, its the banking system for the entire world, it seems like it should have more of a pull and sway with the economy of the world than we as players tend to see.

[Desertman]

All in all, I see it as a perfect fit - one which works seamlessly for Zalanthas.

I don't disagree with this either.

But, the current system doesn't provide, at least in my limited experience, much in the way for players to dabble with in the sandbox. It seems like most of it is virtual/and/or not really part of actual PC's lives.

As Talia said, the banking system is really just an OOC convenience for the players.

I think there is potential here, as detailed in my first post, to make it more than that for the players.

I don't think there is anything wrong with what we have, I just want to explore the possibility of giving use something arguably better.

[spicemustflow]

I don't think that the banking system fits into the technological and civilizational age that the game's set in (and, yes, that's taking into account it's actually a post apocalyptic age). Any explanation other than OOC convenience makes very little sense.

People who have enough money to put in the bank should be a rarity in the world and people who would trust someone else with their money should be even rarer. Why would Kadius or Byn or any other clan with their own guards put coins with Nenyuk?

Nenyuk gets to keep the money when the account holder dies? What kind of selling point is that? "Thank you for choosing Nenyuk, now watch out for our assassins."

[My 2 sids]

Yeah, thats what I was thinking.

I was hoping to figure out a way to make it more of a REAL thing for the game world and its economy. I mean, its the banking system for the entire world, it seems like it should have more of a pull and sway with the economy of the world than we as players tend to see.

Okay, how about this:

Don't confuse "Boss" with Lord or Lady.  Zan's cities are a type of Feudalism, or Manorialism.  Basically minions trade their time and energy to the Masters in exchange for protection.  This tie is even more strong considering Templars have been _proven_ to hold magic so normal people couldn't live without water or pleasing the gods of Zan.

Nenyuk, like all merchants, is selling something.  They are selling "facade economy".  Like giving children an allowance (they don't actually purchase much of anything house-economy wise - they still have heat to their bedrooms, food,  etc) but it gives them a sense they can set goals and achievement and most importantly -- an easy (hidden) way to control any thoughts of mutiny.

[Morrolan]

I always figured that coin should actually be tied to a "water standard" like the "gold standard."

There are, unfortunately, some problems with that which became apparent when reading the Stephenson book Reamde, which has a long section on virtual economies in games.

• In RL, the gold standard is apparently used because the amount of effort required to get gold out of the ground is somewhat standard across cultures.
• Gold is not really a consumable resource. Water is.
• With magick in the game, water can be created and destroyed.

What, then, does an obsidian coin represent? Within the game, they represent a specific amount of buying power regulated by House Nenyuk (distributor) and the southern Templarate as a whole (look at a single coin, and tell me what you see). In truth, they represent an OOC-determined amount of buying power mediated by the staff. Coins, as a whole, do seem to be a player convenience. There is, AFAIK, no more economic theory behind them than moat of us use in our daily lives. We use money, but as a whole we do not understand it.

I would love to see more heavily economic influence in the city-states, with the states themselves using a "secret" currency between themselves. Perhaps that exists. Perhaps there is trade in what the Decepticons called "Energon" and Zalanthans call "Magick." Perhaps this trade goes on behind the scenes, virtually, to keep the economies balanced. Or, we just accept this OOC construct to make the game playable.

I know there is some talk that in 2.Arm there will be multiple currencies. I hope this is true.

[Cutthroat]

I think Houses Valika, Kassigarh, and Nenyuk would have a good idea of the 'value' of a coin, but I always assumed it was fiat money, i.e. the coin is worth something because the leaders of cities, outposts, and villages say it is. It fits in well enough with the autocratic theme of major settlements and helps explain why tribes away from those major settlements tend to prefer bartering with objects.

On the original post, I would like to see more of a danger in hauling money around from city to city, so either making accounts separate for each bank, or forcing a delay on when you can withdraw your money from a foreign bank would be good. I think if you had to wait an IG half-month for your deposited money in Allanak to be withdrawable in Tuluk, it would account for whatever needs to get passed between those cities virtually and encourage people to dangerously take their money along when traveling.

[Kastion]

if they can charge 30% fee to "transfer" my money (its not being transfered, they have money in the other city to give you) then give me the ability to rob the bank and steal millions from them.

[Desertman]

if they can charge 30% fee to "transfer" my money (its not being transfered, they have money in the other city to give you) then give me the ability to rob the bank and steal millions from them.

You already have this ability...

My bank charged me ATM fees to give me my own money IRL, as though the process of handing me my money that I gave them to begin with somehow cost them something....

I also have the ability to rob them for millions, but, risk vs reward heh.

[Kieandatu]

if they can charge 30% fee to "transfer" my money (its not being transfered, they have money in the other city to give you) then give me the ability to rob the bank and steal millions from them.

As Desertman said, this is something you can do, it is not easy, and would (obviously) require staffer assistance.


I would also like to chime in on the topic of moving money across the desert. I am for this idea, as it would require more Byn-like services to cross the desert and set up more raider-style scenarios where the entire purpose is coin and nothing else. However, even issues like that would be few and far between as you can basically get from Tuluk to Allanak in 5 minutes (I'm not saying you SHOULD, you foolish spamwalkers)

[Kastion]

You guys are really hung up on this moving money across the desert thing. They both have huge stockpiles of money in both cities. There is no need to move money at all. Its one company so its like you bank with branch americas bank on the west side of the city and i bank on the branch on the east side. When I go get money from the west side they dont take an armored truck and move my 200$ to the other one LOL.

[Cutthroat]

You guys are really hung up on this moving money across the desert thing. They both have huge stockpiles of money in both cities. There is no need to move money at all. Its one company so its like you bank with branch americas bank on the west side of the city and i bank on the branch on the east side. When I go get money from the west side they dont take an armored truck and move my 200$ to the other one LOL.

We're talking about PCs moving their own money across the desert if bank accounts were separate for each city. Currently if you want to go from Allanak to Tuluk to buy something expensive, there is little risk involved with making the trip. Just deposit your money in the Allanaki bank and ride up to Tuluk, buy your stuff and ride back, because accounts between cities aren't separate.

I mentioned the possibility that, if accounts aren't separate, then Nenyuk might have to pass "something" around to the other banks (records, either written in cavilish or over the Way, or something to that effect).

[Kastion]

ok I will go with that idea. How about when you deposit money in the bank it takes a couple real life days before you can retrieve it from the opposite city. This would simulate the "we need to file records and coordinate with the other city aspect" It would also make it to where if you want to go to Allanak to buy whatever item yourself then you have to transport your money yourself or wait a few real life days once you get to Allanak to do it.

edit: let me make this a little more clear. You get to Allanak and request the funds and they are like "we will have to check the records to make sure you have that much in Tuluk" This is where the wait a couple days comes in. The reason for this is so that people dont just deposit in tuluk a few days before they go to allanak or allways have 50k coins in tuluk or whatever.

edit2: Another idea, you have 50k in tuluk you want to get 5k out when you get to Allanak to purchase whatever. You go to the tuluk bank and request a voucher to withdraw 5k from allanak. The voucher confirms that you can take 5k out at allanak but the risk you run is that this voucher can be turned in by anyone. So if you get raided or stolen from or whatever then the person who holds the voucher gets the 5k. they remove the 5k form your account in tuluk when you receive the voucher.

[Cutthroat]

I like the voucher idea. It is similar to how banking was done on Earth centuries ago.

[Desertman]

I like the voucher idea. It is similar to how banking was done on Earth centuries ago.

I like it too.

It is basically my exact idea, just instead of moving your coins across the desert in coin form, you are moving them in voucher form, I fail to see why we just wouldn't keep them coded as a coin item and not a voucher item though, thats the only difference.

[bcw81]

Because 4000 coins are hard to fit in a belt, but one voucher is quite a bit easier.

[Kastion]

I like the voucher idea. It is similar to how banking was done on Earth centuries ago.

I like it too.

It is basically my exact idea, just instead of moving your coins across the desert in coin form, you are moving them in voucher form, I fail to see why we just wouldn't keep them coded as a coin item and not a voucher item though, thats the only difference.

if it were in voucher form it would also allow implementation of the different currencies that you guys were talking about. When you want to exchange currencies you get a voucher from your bank and turn it in for the other currency in the other city. That would be alot simpler then trying ot take coins and trade them I think.

[Xagon]

I like the voucher idea for large amounts, perhaps in increments of 500 or a large. It'd be nice if it took a few hours to a day for bank finances to "catch up" with your deposits and withdraws, too.

[Kinther]

Kind of like how vellum tickets aren't redeemable until the gear being worked on has been fixed/tailored?

[Kastion]

Well sounds like together we have formed an idea that isnt ooc inconvient yet adds more risk to the banking system and more changes for roleplaying and stuff.

[Kastion]

one more idea to add, what if the vouchers were written in cavalish or whatever language house nenyuk would use. That way people who cant read cavalish wouldnt know what it said. It also raises the ability for forgeries and stuff adding more things possible with the system.

[Desertman]

Well sounds like together we have formed an idea that isnt ooc inconvient yet adds more risk to the banking system and more changes for roleplaying and stuff.

I still like the idea of transporting actual coins, because a big chest of coins is just cool, like pirate treasure.

But vouchers would be cool too. 

[Kastion]

Well sounds like together we have formed an idea that isnt ooc inconvient yet adds more risk to the banking system and more changes for roleplaying and stuff.

I still like the idea of transporting actual coins, because a big chest of coins is just cool, like pirate treasure.

But vouchers would be cool too. 

time to app for a crazy dude that buries chests of coins on islands in the silt sea

[DustMight]

Desertman, I think you are right one with this.

1. There shouldn't be a universal currency.  It would be nice if each culture used different monies and if tribal groups valued them all least of all. 2. There should be services withdrawing all coin at any time.  Yeah, we're holding your coin in a theft proof box.  It will cost you 10% a month (or whatever) after 1,000 whatevers.
3.  Transfer fees should be in place and should be painful enough that people may seriously consider moving their coin around.

Oh - and per the other thread - we SHOULD have differing stable fees based on mount type.

All good!

[Bogre]

I really love the idea of having to transport money-chests across the known.

[John]

I thought you did have to transport your 'sids between locations 

[Booya]

I really like the idea of treasure chests too.

Also, lots of coins get heavy so it might also help encumber the mounts/travellers more and hopefully slow them down.

[Synthesis]

What do you need vouchers for when you have telepathic scribes all around the Known?

[Kastion]

What do you need vouchers for when you have telepathic scribes all around the Known?

to create more risk and opportunity for raiders and thieves.

[Synthesis]

What do you need vouchers for when you have telepathic scribes all around the Known?

to create more risk and opportunity for raiders and thieves.

You're getting your IC and OOC wires crossed, there.

[Kastion]

No it can be easily explained IC. Your scribe has the power of telepathy. Guess who has more power of telepathy? Mind benders, they could be screwing the scribes over and all sorts of stuff to that effect. If someone was going to give you THOUSANDS of sid when you had deposited it in another city then they would want some physical proof that you indeed have that money. Theres lots of IC reasons you can come up with to justify it.

[Dark Fate]

No it can be easily explained IC. Your scribe has the power of telepathy. Guess who has more power of telepathy? Mind benders, they could be screwing the scribes over and all sorts of stuff to that effect. If someone was going to give you THOUSANDS of sid when you had deposited it in another city then they would want some physical proof that you indeed have that money. Theres lots of IC reasons you can come up with to justify it.

1.Mind Benders wouldn't openly use their powers like that. It would get them killed.
2.Raiders and rogues are a lot more common then mind benders. Physical stuff  is easy to lose.
3.The banks wouldn't keep all the money from everyone who dies if their tickets could be recovered.

[Kastion]

No it can be easily explained IC. Your scribe has the power of telepathy. Guess who has more power of telepathy? Mind benders, they could be screwing the scribes over and all sorts of stuff to that effect. If someone was going to give you THOUSANDS of sid when you had deposited it in another city then they would want some physical proof that you indeed have that money. Theres lots of IC reasons you can come up with to justify it.

1.Mind Benders wouldn't openly use their powers like that. It would get them killed.
2.Raiders and rogues are a lot more common then mind benders. Physical stuff  is easy to lose.
3.The banks wouldn't keep all the money from everyone who dies if their tickets could be recovered.

1.it doesnt matter what mind benders would and wouldnt do. It matters what the people fear they can do.

2.Yes physical stuff is easy to lose, if its lost and isnt turned in the bank loses nothing they still have your money. If they do have it turned in then they complete the transaction as they were going to. This is not a loss for the bank, I dont get what you are getting at.

3.^

[Kastion]

any form of banking has accounting. accounting would have written records. at a basic level a voucher system would give written records that are verified by the bank you are transfering from to the bank you are transfering the money to. You cant get someones signature or stamp or whatever over telepathy.


GMHs, nobles and others all send written letters that have their stamp on them for many reasons. They all have telepathy. This is the same principle.

[Synthesis]

any form of banking has accounting. accounting would have written records. at a basic level a voucher system would give written records that are verified by the bank you are transfering from to the bank you are transfering the money to. You cant get someones signature or stamp or whatever over telepathy.


GMHs, nobles and others all send written letters that have their stamp on them for many reasons. They all have telepathy. This is the same principle.

If a mindbender can mindbend a scribe to accept a fake psionic transmission, I'm pretty sure it could mindbend a scribe to write a fake voucher.  So either way, you're not going to have any protection against psionic shenanigans.

[Kastion]

mindbending someone to say "Yep, he has the money" easier then mindbending someone to write the voucher, get the signet ring or whatever to stamp it, and find somewhere to take the money from since the account doesnt exsist. Not to mention im sure the scribe has a superior that has to authorize big withdrawls and stuff.


sure that all is probably possible to do to, but which one would be easier and less obvious? You think a bank with the power of nenyuk doesnt have checks and balances to ensure they arent getting screwed over?

[Nyr]

What the fuck.  Drop the mindbender stuff.

[Kastion]

What the fuck.  Drop the mindbender stuff.

sorry I didnt realize I went to far with it. The example I used seemed like a good counter to the "you can use telepathy to ask someone" arguement

[Synthesis]

Saying a mindbender can probably "control person" is like saying a krathi can probably shoot fireballs.  It's fucking obvious to anyone with the most basic exposure to D&D-style psionics.  What's the big deal?

I could understand if we were like, "oh yeah, on Armageddon, a mindbender's control person ability only lasts for 10 seconds and it's only effective under the light of Jihae, and you can protect yourself against it by putting barrier up and wearing a kryl-shell helmet," but uh...we were speaking about really vague generalities.

[Nyr]

The thread is about banking.  People are talking about what mindbenders could do in relation to banking.  This seems a little silly.  Talk about banking instead please.

[Kastion]

The thread is about banking.  People are talking about what mindbenders could do in relation to banking.  This seems a little silly.  Talk about banking instead please.

i tried to make an example of why telepathy wouldnt be a good way to authorize large transfers of money in different cities. counter to telepathy is mind bending, I thought it was a pretty effective example.

[Nyr]

Speculating on the GDB about the abilities of mindbenders isn't necessary.  You may do so in-game.

[Kastion]

well either way that was just one example there are many more. Like I said the bank would want a paper trail with some form of signature authorizing the transaction and vouchers would supply that. There are many threats to just taking one guys word on it over the way.

[Synthesis]

I'm sure that, in general, mindbenders aren't much of a problem for Nenyuk.  So yes, it's silly to argue about particular precautions they may or may not have to take.

In general, scribes using the Way to send account information over long distances is probably reliable enough that it offsets the dangers of transporting vouchers or actual coins through the desert.

This might suck for your misguided raider concept, but it's worked for as long as I've played the game.

[Kastion]

Of course its worked because thats the way its coded. It isnt broken, we are just brainstorming ways to improve on it. As far as less dangerous, for who nenyuk? It provides no danger to them whatsoever. It actually protects them more by having more security like I have allready stated. They dont magically lose money unless you turn in the voucher in which case they are just completing the transaction.

[Yam]

I'm pretty sure the Nenyuk banking process has pretty detailed documentation. You can probably find out about it IC with enough effort but I'm not sure. There've been Nenyuk PCs in the recent past and may or may not be in the future.

Banking is their business so they have good reason to keep it secret, secure, and easy.

Most of the stuff in this threads doesn't seem any different to me than people discussing ideas on Allanak's water selling/distribution policies. The game interface is a simplification of what occurs, but it's the only part your character is likely to ever see.

Desertman brings up some interesting questions but they're the type that should be sought IC. Not speculated about on the GDB.

[gfair]

While the comparison to the water selling system seems ok, I'd embrace this idea of making money harder to transport. It's a non issue right now, but if it became more popular it might give rise to raiding, which I'd love to see.

[Kastion]

I'm pretty sure the Nenyuk banking process has pretty detailed documentation. You can probably find out about it IC with enough effort but I'm not sure. There've been Nenyuk PCs in the recent past and may or may not be in the future.

Banking is their business so they have good reason to keep it secret, secure, and easy.

Most of the stuff in this threads doesn't seem any different to me than people discussing ideas on Allanak's water selling/distribution policies. The game interface is a simplification of what occurs, but it's the only part your character is likely to ever see.

Desertman brings up some interesting questions but they're the type that should be sought IC. Not speculated about on the GDB.

Ya all the banks in real life have things they do for a reason and it has worked forever. But when someone comes up with a new idea that doesnt mean they just ignore it. Otherwise we wouldnt have had all the fraud and bailouts and all that crap.

[Synthesis]

While the comparison to the water selling system seems ok, I'd embrace this idea of making money harder to transport. It's a non issue right now, but if it became more popular it might give rise to raiding, which I'd love to see.

There used to be a clan of raiders.  People bitched about it constantly.  They went bye-bye.

There used to be two clans of desert-elves that liked to raid.  People bitched about it constantly.  They went bye-bye.

Raiding is one of those things that seems like a good idea in theory, but it has rarely worked in a manner that actually contributed to people's enjoyment of the game...mainly because people don't really like having their shit taken, after all.

[Dalmeth]

Special note : real banks not only hold your money for free, but they pay you INTEREST as well.  Crazy SOB's, right?

[Synthesis]

Special note : real banks not only hold your money for free, but they pay you INTEREST as well.  Crazy SOB's, right?

Well, that's because the threat of highwaymen, burglary, and pickpocketing has been markedly reduced in the modern era, so they have to offer -some- kind of service to entice you to put your money into a modern bank.

I imagine most people would actually pay Nenyuk to hold their coins, if the only alternative was to leave them in a chest behind a trivial lock, or haul them around in a backpack.

[Desertman]

There used to be a clan of raiders.  People bitched about it constantly.  They went bye-bye.

There used to be two clans of desert-elves that liked to raid.  People bitched about it constantly.  They went bye-bye.

Raiding is one of those things that seems like a good idea in theory, but it has rarely worked in a manner that actually contributed to people's enjoyment of the game...mainly because people don't really like having their shit taken, after all.

Having been involved in the destruction IC'ly of a bit of each of these...

They weren't destroyed because people "bitched" about them.

They were destroyed simply because this is a fantasy game, people -usually- like to play good guys and heros, and these were readily available villians for them to fulfill that desire upon.

People like to take down bad guys, so they took down these bad guys, and it was fun, hopefully for everyone.

The reason villians exist is so the good guys will have someone to fight, usually, and eventually one side has to win.

When I make villian pc's, I make them with the full intention of having them taken down by the good guys "one day" because I know that is what is going to happen most likely, eventually. I just try to make the villian as fun to track/fight/pursue/kill as I can until the good guys finally get me.

All of that being said, let's open back up Nenyuk so I can change the banking system IC. 

[valeria]

I think these banking ideas would make more sense if not in the context of an overarching single-house-run banking system monopoly.  As much as I love the idea of having to haul my coins on mount-back across the desert.

Yes.  I am pulling the Reborn card.

[Desertman]

Yes.  I am pulling the Reborn card.

Its super effective!!!

(Seriously, you are right, probably a better idea for something in Reborn.)

[brytta.leofa]

What if those dirty commie Tulukis were to nationalize the northern branch of Nenyuk?

[EldritchOrigins]

What if those dirty commie Tulukis were to nationalize the northern branch of Nenyuk?

Would they use wooden coins?  They'd be super valuable in the south!

[Down Under]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Especially for Armageddon 1.0. I, and a few other people, keep saying this.

I would rather Coders focus their efforts on Armageddon 2.0 unless it is a bug. There is a trend recently of threads popping up with ideas for code changes that are not only pretty insignificant, but wouldn't benefit the game world outside of further realism. Playability > Realism in both the Stable Fees, and this Banking thread. End of story.

In 2.0, I hope:
-There are multiple currencies
-A bank could be robbed
-A bank could be extorted

But -- The 2.0 suggestion thread is closed, and I wouldn't suggest those ideas for 1.0.

[Kastion]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Especially for Armageddon 1.0. I, and a few other people, keep saying this.

I would rather Coders focus their efforts on Armageddon 2.0 unless it is a bug. There is a trend recently of threads popping up with ideas for code changes that are not only pretty insignificant, but wouldn't benefit the game world outside of further realism. Playability > Realism in both the Stable Fees, and this Banking thread. End of story.

In 2.0, I hope:
-There are multiple currencies
-A bank could be robbed
-A bank could be extorted

But -- The 2.0 suggestion thread is closed, and I wouldn't suggest those ideas for 1.0.

bro it isnt the end of the story just because you say "End of story." and you are wrong armageddon 2.0 is never coming out. Thats why so many code discussion threads are popping up now.

[Nyr]

A few couple points:

--we aren't changing banking to any of these extents in arm 1--however, these ideas are neat
--we are sorry that the new free game being created by volunteers isn't meeting your expectations of timely completion, but we think you will get over it

edit because there are only two points there.