So You Want to Talk Stats?

[Nyr]

 

[BleakOne]

Oooh... froggy! 

[Synthesis]

I can't see HMG-CoA reductase either.  Doesn't mean atorvastatin doesn't work.

[Dakurus]

Actually the code takes into account the phases of the moons, the terrain, and proximity of local aggressive mobiles when determining healing rate and need for position for recovery.

Everyone has their own impressions, stop the name calling and the I'm more right then you.
You want to talk general theory, ideas, and suggestion, fine.
Thanks for playing.

[RogueGunslinger]

* RogueGunslinger scratches his head.

Wow. That's like, the best code knowledge I've gotten in months.

[musashi]

Whoa!!! *runs off to test ... well ... to work! But after that to test!*

[BleakOne]

*Goes out to take all the boots of people who go hunting during full moons*

[X-D]

I am amused.

Still, I have to wonder, on the people complaining that end does not affect enough...What race were you playing when you decided this and what end?

HP is meaningless and actually has very little to do with your end and far more to do with your race.

If you had a good end human then you rolled a EG end human...well, to be honest, that is not a large difference and cannot be considered a high end PC...hell, a AI end human cannot really be considered such.

Still, If you had a exceptional end human and did not think it had a large enough affect, I really have to think you did not stick with it long enough or were really not paying attention.

The bonuses, combat and other to having very high end are many and useful...one of my best and longest lived PCs was a dwarf ranger with good str, ave agi, ba wis and AI endurance...and that was before all the end draining skills...today he would be that much more awesome.

[Kaineus]

Celest makes a good point just because the % threshold being the same makes the benefits of having higher HP even more trivial. In any combat situation, being an endurance prime-statted character basically means you'll get powned by everyone else. End of story.

I know the idea of the game is roleplay over completely balanced gameplay (we aren't going to nerf and boost certain stats every week). However, having played an endurance prime statted character that utterly sucked, I can say this stat, as it is now, is damaging the RP environment. Ideally I'd like to a lot more high-endurance, defensive characters. But I will simply never prioritize endurance again because it is an essentially worthless stat. Prioritizing it lowers your defense (by forgoing the encumbrance boost provided by strength and reducing your ability to dodge) so much that the increased HP counts for nothing.

I'd like to reiterate my point that encumbrance should half be determined by endurance, half determined by strength. This just makes sense. Military recruits from the medieval ages to now spend a huge amount of their time just running around in their gear. Running is an endurance exercise. Fighting is an endurance excercize (as anyone who does martial arts knows). Fighting and running in heavy gear requires tremendous amounts of endurance to even take a few steps. I'm tired of people playing obscene beefcakes in silthorror who probably have endurance stats ranging from good to poor. It makes no sense at all. None.

Let me reiterate my point a third time. Please make encumbrance half determined by endurance. It just makes sense.


Regarding the racial differences: I realize dwarves, half-giants, etc may see bigger bonuses from endurance. Having played a dwarf with 130 HP and alright agility, I can still say, that 30 HP above the human average HP still doesn't count for beans compared to the huge defensive boosts provided by high strength. Just don't make strength count for equipment load so much.

[Synthesis]

If you don't think endurance is helpful, prioritize it last.

PROBLEM SOLVED

[boog]

I can't see HMG-CoA reductase either.  Doesn't mean atorvastatin doesn't work.

Whoosh, Synth. Whoosh. I think I'm the only one who understood that statement. If someone needs a $4 co-pay card for Lipitor, hit me up!

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is so concerned about stats, anyway. This is the kind of shit that takes away from roleplay. I understand that the code, of course, has a place in roleplay, but man. Sometimes it seems like it's the only thing that matters to 80% of the playerbase.

I didn't know the name of this game was, "I run out of stam and hps quicker than the other guy, so I hate it." It's like saying someone's blue candy is better than your red candy or something.

Sometimes, people aren't as good as other people. In game, in real life. Play it up, my brothas and sistahs.

[Hot_Dancer]

..I remember once-upon-a-time I had a pretty nasty assassin and had a fairly notorious dwarven Rukki in my sights.

Your average guy I could one-shot or knock out with high end poison/otherwise have them down in under a few
seconds. This enemy though.. I was worried it would either be resisted outright by said high endurance enemy or
not damage him fast enough before he could react to one-shot me back.

I hesitated, he knocked me down.

[Kaineus]

Problem not solved. I don't want to do what nearly everyone else does. I want to roleplay concepts I want to role play, that make logical sense.

Here's to illustrate my point again.

A strength prime stat warrior might look like this:
http://images.wikia.com/heman/images/5/53/He-man02.jpg
He-man doesn't need armor! He-man is too muscle-bound for any armor to even fit him! He-man uses all of his strength to heft his hugeass sword and murder people! And surprise, the game is still balanced, because He-man can reel people so badly he doesn't even -need- armor.

An endurance prime statted warrior might look like this:
http://www.biographyonline.net/people/images/joan.gif
Joan of Arc took how many arrows in battle, and kept fighting? A shit ton. She intentionally starved herself as a part of her ascetic lifestyle and still kicked ass and took names. She was never fabled for her speed or strength, and she was crazy to boot. But damn, she was tough, and had the endurance necessary to lug all that armor to boot.

As the stats are, differentiation in character concepts like this is so extremely unbalanced that very few people even bother to play low strength warriors. And to me that is very sad. I like to have a wide array of viable character concepts in game.

[Kaineus]

Thanks for your anecdote, Dancer. It gives me some hope for the viability of high endurance characters.

[Kieandatu]

Endurance has more to do with characters than HP. This has been stated many times.
The percentage, as has been stated, is the same regardless of race, as far as the auto-heal "floor".
You want to play a "defensive" character. Please define what makes a "defensive" character in your mind. Having 20 more HP does not make you more defensive.

All the things you want to do for your "defensive" PCs have nothing to do with endurance, and I would suggest you think about the actual "defense" stat in game. If you want to be defensive, and take hits, then learn to take hits. Don't assume the stat is useless just because the extra 10hp didn't make you a combat "elite".

[Kol]

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is so concerned about stats, anyway. This is the kind of shit that takes away from roleplay. I understand that the code, of course, has a place in roleplay, but man. Sometimes it seems like it's the only thing that matters to 80% of the playerbase.

I didn't know the name of this game was, "I run out of stam and hps quicker than the other guy, so I hate it." It's like saying someone's blue candy is better than your red candy or something.

Sometimes, people aren't as good as other people. In game, in real life. Play it up, my brothas and sistahs.

I heart you.

[Kaineus]

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is so concerned about stats, anyway. This is the kind of shit that takes away from roleplay. I understand that the code, of course, has a place in roleplay, but man. Sometimes it seems like it's the only thing that matters to 80% of the playerbase.

Stats and roleplay are not mutually exclusive. I try to put my statorder as whatever fits my concept and background. Most people do. But most people also put endurance last despite their description or concept. Why? Because endurance got the short-end of the code stick.

To repeat myself, as the stats are, differentiation in character concepts like this is so extremely unbalanced that very few people even bother to play low strength warriors. I am discussing this stat with the hope of improving role play. That is, allowing for warriors more like paladins (defensive, good HP, lots of armor) in addition to the high str/agi warrior/berserker types most people play.

Go on and back up boog. But I feel the game is missing out on a lot of diversity in combat because this stat is useless. Endurance doesn't make you more defensive. The defensive boosts granted by Strength and Agi make you more defensive. Endurance needs to be improved.

[Synthesis]

Endurance isn't supposed to make you "more defensive" in a melee sense.  Why are you so fixated on this point?

[Delirium]

cluex4: agility.

[Kaineus]

Endurance isn't supposed to make you "more defensive" in a melee sense.  Why are you so fixated on this point?

Because you look at any fighter training for any event in real life, and endurance is valued much more in real life, than it is in game. Look at a professional boxer. They probably spend as much time jumping rope and jogging as they do throwing punches.

The weakness of this stat leads to homogeneity in warrior concepts. It's so bad, that in a lot of guilds, the viability of warriors is only a matter of how strong they are (And oh, if they have alright agi to go with it). High endurance warriors are left by the wayside, weak and worthless. I want to be able to play a good warrior without having to be fast like a ninja or obscenely strong. I want diversity in strategies.

[Synthesis]

You're confusing the various senses of the word endurance, man.

Read the helpfile on endurance.  It tells you what 'endurance' means in terms of -this- game, and how it's helpful in -this- game.  It does not neatly overlap with real-life endurance (i.e. running a marathon).

[Kieandatu]

I want to be able to play a good warrior without having to be fast like a ninja or obscenely strong. I want diversity in strategies.

Play the character, not the stats.

I had something longer written up, but for the sake of brevity, repeat that mantra. Unless you rolled poor in every stat, ever warrior is "capable" of doing whatever you want them to. Emote how you want, and play your character how you want. Stop focusing on Endurance being the reason you can't play some role, because it isn't.

[Kaineus]

Alright, just as someone who has tried a few times, I am disappointed with how discouraging it is. I am just aiming for realism, and I am tired of something so tremendously important in real life having no weight in the game.

Here's a new suggestion--make it cost 1 stamina for every 1-6 melee hits delivered. That is completely logical (fighting will tire you the fuck out, at least from my experience doing krav maga half assedly). I am just trying to make something so logically integral to success as a warrior factor into the game more appropriately.

[Synthesis]

So...you're concerned that a stat that isn't intended to do what you think it should do doesn't perform as you'd expect, in the context of a feature that doesn't even exist.

[Kaineus]

Endurance is immensely important in succeeding as any kind of soldier in real life. For example, even riding horses in real life takes physical effort on the part of the rider. My argument is that the code should reflect how important endurance is in combat and all sorts of things. I am thinking of ways for this to happen. You all have proven the encumbrance option is not viable. So I am proposing other things.