The Byn - what do you see?

[Delirium]

Oh boy, there goes that can-o-worms again...

An idea I've toyed with is working out a deal with the city stables; if you're in the Byn, you can stable/unstable for free, because they're paying the city X amount of 'sid per year. But I'll probably never have time to play a Byn Sergeant, so somebody else is gonna have to find out if that's possible

[Nyr]

What if the Byn had their own stables? It'd save them so much money in the long run, and they'd be more willing to go on cheaper contracts.

If you're in the Byn, you know why this isn't feasible.  If you're not, it's not your concern, it is IC.

[Desertman]

Running a profitable unit is the hardest part of being a Byn Sargent, it takes time, rep and an established unit, I spent more than I made with my Byn Sarge, I only wish I'd lasted longer, counting on Imm contracts and VNPC contracts you dream up gets old for the unit quick.

I dunno, as a Sargent, I'd kinda keep an eye out for those who join 'for a few hot meals' as they don't generally try as hard as those who have joined to train, get paid, and earn a name. These individuals would be treated with appropriately, and made a public example of to show the Byn isn't a place for free meals, but a serious place for serious mercs. I'd guess displays like that would be well known and often enough that people would think twice about it at least.

I think this is something people tend to overlook, the Byn are not just Mercs for hire, they are a training school too, I'd like to see more leaders sending new, unproven recruits to the Byn for a year, to get that green from their arse, and some skills and gear under their belt, if their good enough.

Truth, there is a lot of OOC time and work involved with making your Byn unit successful from an IC and OOC standpoint. From an IC standpoint, your only goal is to ensure your unit stays in the green with the Company. You are bringing in more income than the cost of training and supplying your men is costing the Company. From an OOC standpoint your goal is to ensure your players are active and having fun.

I think the standpoint on VNPC and NPC contracts is that they are no longer an option. At least, the last time I played a Byn Sergeant a couple of years ago that is what I was told. I was very dissapoint, I always liked that aspect of playing a Byn leader.

Another thing to remember is the Byn IS a training school, for sponsored Runners. You have to keep in mind that the Byn loses coins when they hire a Runner. The 300 coin joining fee is only meant to offset some of that loss.

The reasons new Runners are hired:

1) The gamble is that eventually that worthless Runner will eventually become a profitable Trooper for the Company. While they are a Runner they are basically little more than a training and supply expense that is slightly offset by the 300 coin joining fee they paid up front. This is one reason why Sergeants want to be a bit picky about who they hire, in theory. You want to hire people you see as having a good chance to become profitable Troopers for your unit one day, not just every slob that managed to scrape together 300 coins for a year of free meals and water.

2) A Runner is sponsored by a Higher-End Uppity-Up. A noble or merchant House, a well off independent, a Templar, etc..etc...The Byn takes these Runners because its simply good business. You want to make the people who are most likely to hire you for good paying contracts happy, and training their people makes them happy. There is also the assumption that once that Runner leaves after their year of training they will go off to be part of that House, or work for that Templar, and then you have one of your ex-members in a position of semi-authority, and thats always good for business. The buddy system.

[My 2 sids]

Code Select Expand


The Byn is a bizarre mixture of people. Many of them are social rejects; working for a business officially sanctioned by the Templarate is the only thing that classes them as hired thugs instead of bandits. Ex-slaves and fugitives are amongst the company's ranks. A very few are true warriors, dedicated to studying the Art of War. Most, however, are just honest citizens looking to make a living as best they can.  


Honestly, I figure the Byn really fits in with the VNPC population:  the everyday-Amos who isn't going to amount to anything.  The ones who don't want to stand out or socially climb.  Given that most houses have their own employee & slaves to do things like guarding/escorts/etc. (not to mention the whole "Tor Academy" sometimes I think it's a stretch for houses to always hire the Byn.  

Where I see houses looking for the Byn...

Escorting/ Guarding    I think awhile ago the Byn was offering weekly runs between the cities.  Escorting isn't just for big trips -- do trips out to the mines or salt flats  (even discrete ones... like into the 'rinith)   Indies could take advantage because of "group discount" prices.

Want to rough someone up?  (someone stole your lover?  one-uped you in front of your lord?  gave you the evil eye?)  Don't draw attention to yourself or clan... contact your thugs out.

training

Personally, I don't like the "sponsor" thing.   I think it'd work better to have Houses take notice of the graduating class.   

The fact is, the byn IS comprised of anyone who can scrape together a few sid.  Most of those smucks won't be true warriors...  teach them fighting/ how to hold a sword/ about hunting.   Then those who show potential can be recruited by houses or become Troopers. 

[Desertman]

I have always kind of seen the Byn as a group of honorable thugs, if there is such a thing.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't see them walking around acting honorable as individuals. They are scum and lowlifes and semi-criminals as individuals, but as an organization, they are what I would consider honorable thugs.

The Byn is who you hire when you need a thug a you can depend on not to turn on you at the last moment and stab you in the back. They have to have a certain amount of respectability due to their high class clients and their reputation that other true-thugs simply would not have.

The Byn doesn't get hired to murder people in back rooms the way true blade-for-higher low-down-dirty-rotten thugs would. They are just slightly above that, they have to be, at least for the majority of the time, otherwise they lose their reputation as honorable enough to not be doubted. If anyone off the street can hire you to gang-shank some indy "innocent" merchant in a alley, you are no longer a honorable thug for hire, you are the lowest of the low, and those guys can't be trusted. A fine line between honorable thugs and low down murderer.

Its in the documentation, a Byn Sergeant can not accept a contract that violates the the rules of the city state you are in. Murder is against those rules. Now, that is bendable when you are talking about the templarate doing the hiring, then all bets are off. But, 99 out of 100 times, if you are going to be hiring murderers and true thugs, you aren't going to hire the Byn, you are going to hire you a nice shifty rinther or elf or other undesirable.

If you need a dependable unit of trained fighters you can count on to not turn their backs on you or even stab you in the back, you hire the Byn. The Byn bolsters city state armies with field fodder, the Byn escorts merchant Houses and their employees and can be counted on NOT to waylay the wagon halfway there and steal all of the goods for themselves.

So when people say the Byn is a group of thugs, I agree, to an extent, but they are a group of honorable thugs. They might be looked down on for being thugs, but I think the general population looks at them with disdane for the way they live, not necessarily what they do for a living. The Byn hires some serious social rejects, barely gears them, if at all, and puts them through routines that leave them less than desirable to be around....latrine cleaning at the top of the list, they always have -that- smell, you know the one I'm talking about.

I'm rambling I think, my point is I don't think the Byn fills the social role of "Hark, there be a murdering bandit thug, he is vile and cant be trusted, the lowest of the low!" I think they fill the role of, "Well, he's dirty, and he smells, and I don't want to be around him any longer than I have to, but, what the heck, he gets the job done."

[My 2 sids]

Desertman,  I don't think anyone is calling them murderers. 

It's just that there are guards, there are soldiers, and then there are byn. 

[Desertman]

Desertman,  I don't think anyone is calling them murderers.  

It's just that there are guards, there are soldiers, and then there are byn.  

Yeah, thats what I'm saying.

(I didn't read all of the previous posts heh, if I was refuting someone else's claim, I didn't mean to, I was making the statement as a first, not a reply. )

[Reiloth]

They are murderers, though. It's pretty funny when I see people insult Bynners in public, when they're 'rinthers or unaffiliated. As if that isn't going to bite them in the ass...

The Byn is definitely dictated by the Sergeant, and to a lesser extent, the Staff running it. Byn Sergeant is the most autonomous role in Armageddon. You are required to get things done without Staff interaction on a daily basis, so it's up to you to decide how it happens.

The Byn is definitely not a group of thugs and thieves; in fact, stealing is considered 'beneath' a Bynner, with an almost elven mentality to it. If you can't make your money being a merc, what are you doing in the Byn?

I think some Sergeants come into the role thinking it's going to be like a Noble, but it could not be farther from the truth. The Byn follows, Nobles / GMH are supposed to lead, come up with the contracts, and dole them out. It's the Byn Sergeant's responsibility to keep their unit trained and ready for combat.

There's been a trend recently of looking the Byn up for grebbing, or hunting...It's really not their bag. Killing, fighting, pillaging, ambushing, and otherwise tearing it up on the battlefield is the Byn's specialty. Not finding little rocks.

I see the Byn as being the means to an end; you come up with the idea, the Byn gets it done. They aren't involved with politics, their politics end at how much coin you have in that bag. The T'zai Byn have a compound in Tuluk, at the end of the day, enough said. I've always dreamed of the Byn being in a battle, and the losing side meeting with a Byn leader, getting a larger offer than the winning side. I'd like to think they'd take the bigger payday, rather than worry about who's going to be butthurt afterwards. They are greedy sons of bitches.

[Dalmeth]

I'm rambling I think, my point is I don't think the Byn fills the social role of "Hark, there be a murdering bandit thug, he is vile and cant be trusted, the lowest of the low!" I think they fill the role of, "Well, he's dirty, and he smells, and I don't want to be around him any longer than I have to, but, what the heck, he gets the job done."

I think what you're looking for is, "professional thug."  It's just a group of people trained to hurt somebody.  They don't have to hurt anybody, but half the point is everyone knows they can.

[Delirium]

There's been a trend recently of looking the Byn up for grebbing, or hunting...It's really not their bag. Killing, fighting, pillaging, ambushing, and otherwise tearing it up on the battlefield is the Byn's specialty. Not finding little rocks.

YES. THIS, a thousand times this. Chopping down trees and digging gemstones is not the purview of trained killers! At best, that would be a training mission for Runners, and scoffed at by Troopers. The sad thing is though, the way the game economy works, you stand to make more money at that stuff, regularly, than you do at Killing Things.

[Synthesis]

"Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.  The Byn has always done hunting and grebbing missions, for as long as I can remember, having played this game for 13-odd years.  Like I said previously, it's mostly up to whatever Sergeant is running the show.  If you want to play a hardass "I only kill shit for money" type, you're probably not going to retain much of a crew, unless you just happen to be in some RPT/HRPT sweet-spot.

[Dalmeth]

YES. THIS, a thousand times this. Chopping down trees and digging gemstones is not the purview of trained killers! At best, that would be a training mission for Runners, and scoffed at by Troopers. The sad thing is though, the way the game economy works, you stand to make more money at that stuff, regularly, than you do at Killing Things.

Unfortunately, this an area where players should be stepping in to ameliorate the situation.

All it would take is one busybody merchant to keep the Byn regularly doing trained mercenary-type jobs.  However, few step up to do the menial labor themselves, preferring to leave that to, you know, the hired help.

[Down Under]

"Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.  The Byn has always done hunting and grebbing missions, for as long as I can remember, having played this game for 13-odd years.  Like I said previously, it's mostly up to whatever Sergeant is running the show.  If you want to play a hardass "I only kill shit for money" type, you're probably not going to retain much of a crew, unless you just happen to be in some RPT/HRPT sweet-spot.

From what i've seen, this is not the case.

[Synthesis]

"Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.  The Byn has always done hunting and grebbing missions, for as long as I can remember, having played this game for 13-odd years.  Like I said previously, it's mostly up to whatever Sergeant is running the show.  If you want to play a hardass "I only kill shit for money" type, you're probably not going to retain much of a crew, unless you just happen to be in some RPT/HRPT sweet-spot.

From what i've seen, this is not the case.

Everyone is always so certain that their experience isn't merely an outlier.

Then again, maybe times are a-changin' and people are either a) enjoying being broke or b) actually getting paid reasonably well for killing shit.  I doubt it, but I'll entertain the possibility.

[My 2 sids]

"Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.  The Byn has always done hunting and grebbing missions, for as long as I can remember, having played this game for 13-odd years.  Like I said previously, it's mostly up to whatever Sergeant is running the show.  If you want to play a hardass "I only kill shit for money" type, you're probably not going to retain much of a crew, unless you just happen to be in some RPT/HRPT sweet-spot.

I think you bring up a good OOC point -- the needs of the player base.  The Arm, the merchant houses, the noble houses -- all open, all hiring.  What shouldn't happen is the Byn taking over duties and RPTs that other houses could do for themselves.

Hunting/grubbing/ taking small contracts from small independents fulfilles a real need in the player-base.

[Down Under]

Yes, and by making it clear the Byn isn't your friendly neighborhood logger/grebber you help by not taking those jobs and referring elsewhere. Will they still ask? Yes. Is it a sea change? No. But it's a start.

[Yam]

T'zai Byn owns.

[RogueGunslinger]

T'zai Byn owns.

[Wolfsong]

One of the first RPTs I ever went on was a trip up around Tuluk to forage for stones with the T'zai Byn. Halflings ambushed us.

[Erythil]

If the Byn had wizards, they could be the Bridgeburners.

[FantasyWriter]

I've still never played a Bynner

[Wolfsong]

If the Byn had wizards, they could be the Bridgeburners.

Or the Black Company!

[Erythil]

If the Byn had wizards, they could be the Bridgeburners.

Or the Black Company!

I don't think the Byn are badass enough to be the Black Company.

Then again, if you read the (inferior) later books, the Black Company sort of progressively gets more and more of its ass handed to it.

[Erythil]

Another thought:

If the Byn was the Black Company, one of the Sergeants would wind up getting involved in an inappropriate relationship with Tektolnes.

[FantasyWriter]

I hated RPing with that guy with my Black robe, such a damn noob.