Regarding The Upcoming Chargen Change

[Dan]

I don't like the idea of adding money/stat boots at character creation because this begins to create an atmosphere where new players feel left out because they think, founded or unfounded, that they can't make a warrior that can compete with a vet's warrior because the vet bought a strength boost.

I think it's easier to accept that a magicker will have terrible power because they are strange creatures. However, when other warriors are systematically more powerful than you, it is discouraging because it gives a feeling that the cards are stacked against you.

When old players further say that they are entitled to make extra strong/agile characters it only reinforces these notions.

To be clear, the power reward for playing a long time is knowledge of the game world. Any vet should agree that makes you more powerful than any stat boost could. Asking for karma based stat boosts hurts the game because it makes our atmosphere less egalitarian.

There aren't stat or starting coin boosts. Just skill boosts, which over time will equal out with the skills of a newbie if they both continue to play and progress.

I've also not seen anyone say anything about older players being entitled to any extra boosts outside of karma options, which arguably is necessary since these options are at times very lonely for the player, hard to roleplay properly and require a lot more trust by staff due to the potential for abuse.

Lastly, the world of Zalanthas is harsh and with few exceptions I wager to say that there are far fewer situations where people are true equals than the fact that there is -always- someone more powerful than you. Coded or implied through IC gained power and position.

[Drayab]

Lest we forget the first post of the thread.

I'm wondering if we might also spend CGP to raise stats or perhaps gain a starting coin bonus.

Also, to be clear, when I say egalitarian, I am referring to relations among players, not among player characters.

[Marauder Moe]

I think boosting starting coin seems OK.  Like skills, and unlike stats, coin can be raised by playing.  Seems like it would be fair if, say, every CGP spent gave you something in the realm of 50-100% extra starting coin.

Bumping stats... I can kind of see the danger there, but I'm not steadfastly against the idea.

[Tisiphone]

There are no plans to boost stats, give out money, or equipment with karma.

[Dan]

I think boosting starting coin seems OK.  Like skills, and unlike stats, coin can be raised by playing.  Seems like it would be fair if, say, every CGP spent gave you something in the realm of 50-100% extra starting coin.

Bumping stats... I can kind of see the danger there.

Not a fan of stat modification in the least myself. Prioritization is fine, and that is where it should stop.

[Bacon]

I think boosting starting coin seems OK.  Like skills, and unlike stats, coin can be raised by playing.  Seems like it would be fair if, say, every CGP spent gave you something in the realm of 50-100% extra starting coin.

Bumping stats... I can kind of see the danger there.

Not a fan of stat modification in the least myself. Prioritization is fine, and that is where it should stop.

+1

[Marauder Moe]

At the very least, there's a few limits I can agree on.  Like, you shouldn't be able to exceed racial maximums by spending points, and there should be more restrictions and/or higher costs for boosting higher prioritized stats, we such a system to be considered.

[Drayab]

Yes, both of those suggestions sound reasonable, but on a more fundamental level, what do you think is the benefit to the game of letting karma'd players have a statistical advantage over newbies?

[Marauder Moe]

Those characters will be more likely to survive, and continue being awesome?   

[Aesuna]

Yes, both of those suggestions sound reasonable, but on a more fundamental level, what do you think is the benefit to the game of letting karma'd players have a statistical advantage over newbies?

This is a very good point.

Regardless, Nyr has already stated they have no plans to boost stats or give out money/equipment for karma. Why beat a dead horse?

[RogueGunslinger]

Just because there are no plans. Doesn't mean there can't be plans in the future.

[Nyr]

Just because there are no plans. Doesn't mean there can't be plans in the future.

There are no plans to have future plans for this, either.

[Dan]

Just because there are no plans. Doesn't mean there can't be plans in the future.

There are no plans to have future plans for this, either.

Just because there are no plans for no plans for future plans... oh, whats that? Yes it does mean that exactly? Oh.


I'd like to see the dust settle a bit on the current changes before too much more is done, personally. They haven't even begun the test phase for the 2nd half of the new extended subguilds so far as I am aware (paths of magick subguilds).

[janeshephard]

I don't ever want to see karma used for coin/stats. I do want to see a way of making sure my lithe sword fighting tribal actually has decent agility and str though. There's no guarantee of any of that except picking a median age and hoping your rolls don't suck.

[Nyr]

I don't ever want to see karma used for coin/stats. I do want to see a way of making sure my lithe sword fighting tribal actually has decent agility and str though. There's no guarantee of any of that except picking a median age and hoping your rolls don't suck.

Prioritize agility or strength and you should be fine.  Or prioritize nothing and let the chips fall where they may.  If you just want "decent," prioritization really makes it easy to attain that for the stats that matter for your concept unless you want all of them to be amazing.

[Dalmeth]

Anyone else just find a stat system incongruous with the sort of roleplaying we do here?

[musashi]

Not really. Assuming that you mean something along the lines of: "For all our talk about fairness the stat system sure is unfair" ... then I think it's important to segregate the game from the community when we're talking about being fair.

The community takes great pains to be fair to the other people in it. The game does not. The stat rolls aren't "fair" to the characters in the game. Some characters end up having more coded advantage than others by virtue of chance. But the community is perfectly fair, because the chance to get those rockin' stats is the same for everyone. The house isn't stacking the deck in anyone's favor.

[Dalmeth]

Nah, I refer to the extra effort required to pretend that stat rolls don't have any effect on the role you play.  Better would be rolls for less specific resources that can be distributed as the character demands.

[Wolfsong]

Nah, I refer to the extra effort required to pretend that stat rolls don't have any effect on the role you play.  Better would be rolls for less specific resources that can be distributed as the character demands.

Your general endurance is good, your endurance during mudsex is absolutely incredible, your ability to ride long distances in a saddle is below average, your general agility is above average, your ability to catch casually tossed or flung objects is exceptional, your ability to walk home while totally plastered is poor, your general strength is very good, your ability to lift women is absolutely incredible, your arm strength is extremely good, your penis size is absolutely incredible, your general wisdom is poor, your ability to figure out if you're being conned is absolutely incredible, your common sense is good, your ability to count is absolutely incredible, and your ability to capitalize or punctuate is poor.

[Kol]

Nah, I refer to the extra effort required to pretend that stat rolls don't have any effect on the role you play.  Better would be rolls for less specific resources that can be distributed as the character demands.

I do think this is why the prioritize command was added during char-gen.

Edited to make sense.

[Delirium]

Nah, I refer to the extra effort required to pretend that stat rolls don't have any effect on the role you play.  Better would be rolls for less specific resources that can be distributed as the character demands.

Your general endurance is good, your endurance during mudsex is absolutely incredible, your ability to ride long distances in a saddle is below average, your general agility is above average, your ability to catch casually tossed or flung objects is exceptional, your ability to walk home while totally plastered is poor, your general strength is very good, your ability to lift women is absolutely incredible, your arm strength is extremely good, your penis size is absolutely incredible, your general wisdom is poor, your ability to figure out if you're being conned is absolutely incredible, your common sense is good, your ability to count is absolutely incredible, and your ability to capitalize or punctuate is poor.

I wish I could sig all that.

[NOFUN]

I like the changes, I mean, the one thing that's always made armageddon so much fun for me is how unfair it is.

A sorc could probably kill my pickpocket five times over without breaking a sweat, but that for me is what adds a danger element. In the past it's been, this guy has disarmed me, therefore I don't need to worry about being backstabbed or getting shot in the face with a fireball.

Now I can't OOCLY be sure if that's the truth or not, but I remember when I first started playing I made characters with the intention of winning. Half-elves with a plot in mind of KEELING THE HIGHLORD and building thier own city state. Each time my characters died, got maimed, my goals slowly started to become more realistic.

This might just be the case for me, but I'm almost certain if I started out with a super powerful PC I'd probably be a bigger hack and slash twink than I am at the moment. But hey, if a player has experience roleplaying before, they'll probably get a staffer's attention sooner or later.

Just my opinion though, certain PC's being more talented than others sounds like a good thing to me.

[Maso]

On stat boosts: Someone has to play the underdog, newer players with less karma should be those, you earn your way out of that position with time and effort into the game.

On coin boosts: Why the hell not? If you want to start a character that comes from a wealthy-ish background then it will balance out that your character has more starting coin but a rubbisher skillset (because they haven't had to do much for themselves). It would make starting wealthier characters a more viable option, but they would be weaker. Don't see a problem there.

Though as it has been stated that there are absolutely no plans for either of these, I'm slightly confused as to why it's being debated!!

Also, what changes have occurred recently? I'm so out of the loop.

[Nyr]

Also, what changes have occurred recently? I'm so out of the loop.

Major announced changes

Changes to the Karma System  -- karma measurements are in place and in use for account notes reviews.  However, we have only implemented special-apped extended subguilds and skill bumps at this time (see more on that in the next point).

You can special app for an extended subguild or for skill boosts.  All of the non-magickal extended subguilds are open for a special application.

There's lots more unrelated to code but these two are the big ones lately.

[janeshephard]

Also, what changes have occurred recently? I'm so out of the loop.

Major announced changes

Changes to the Karma System  -- karma measurements are in place and in use for account notes reviews.  However, we have only implemented special-apped extended subguilds and skill bumps at this time (see more on that in the next point).

You can special app for an extended subguild or for skill boosts.  All of the non-magickal extended subguilds are open for a special application.

There's lots more unrelated to code but these two are the big ones lately.

Thanks for clarifying. Nyr, is CGP expenditure currently in game or are you all awaiting the code changes before that's in place?