Leadership roles

[jstorrie]

Leadership attrition:  When a PC in a sponsored position becomes inactive, stores, or dies, we need to replace them.  What exactly do you mean by OOC player recruitment for leader positions?

Like,

1. I feel like my clan could use someone in (position X) for (logistical/out-of-character reason Y).
2. I know another player (player Z) who I enjoy playing with, whose playtimes tend to sync up with mine, and who has typically inspired me to fun tiems in the past.
3. 'Dear staff: I'd like help with (reason Y). Would you consider offering the sponsored role of (position X) to (player Z)?'

I've never done this in the past because I'm under the impression that it's not kosher... but I feel like it would solve a lot of problems regarding leadership burnout, as long as it was managed by a firm hand.

[jstorrie]

Creating a policy that would allow players to OOCly recruit for an additional sponsored role (right hand dude/ette) is essentially creating a policy that OKs an overconcentration of power and probable abuse of said power by OOC means.

Certain clans, however, suffer from an under-concentration of power. Due to lack of leader PCs or restrictions on player times, they have trouble filling the notorious role they're supposed to fill in the game world. In my experience this happens occasionally with the GMH clans, very often with the T'zai Byn, and pretty much constantly with anything in Tuluk. For the most part it appears as though the current system isn't able to resolve these issues.

[Potaje]

I just want to toss in, for you leader types, when you come to a fully loaded clan (pcs included) and you bail on the clan, we (the pc lackies) are very much effected.

In my opinion it takes someone that is both very selfish and selfless to really fill these roles. I personally wish those applying look closely at their  future RL expectations and weigh them carefully against what they can and are willing to attribute to the IC world.

We all play this game for fun, and some put a lot of time and dedication into being long lived underlings. You hear about Highborn leaders having a hard time keeping the underlings and carrying all that weight. But when a clan can not keep a Highborn leader, there tends to be no more clan. And if you have a group of people that at the lower rungs have worked diligently, and progressively, establishing a long held presence their that most leaders would water at the mouth for, you pretty well screw them on their game and fun.

So please, apply with some responsibility and consideration for the role you wish to undertake.   

[Reiloth]

I just want to toss in, for you leader types, when you come to a fully loaded clan (pcs included) and you bail on the clan, we (the pc lackies) are very much effected.

In my opinion it takes someone that is both very selfish and selfless to really fill these roles. I personally wish those applying look closely at their  future RL expectations and weigh them carefully against what they can and are willing to attribute to the IC world.

We all play this game for fun, and some put a lot of time and dedication into being long lived underlings. You hear about Highborn leaders having a hard time keeping the underlings and carrying all that weight. But when a clan can not keep a Highborn leader, there tends to be no more clan. And if you have a group of people that at the lower rungs have worked diligently, and progressively, establishing a long held presence their that most leaders would water at the mouth for, you pretty well screw them on their game and fun.

So please, apply with some responsibility and consideration for the role you wish to undertake.   

Amen.

[Nyr]

Players do tend to play what they want to play and when they want to play.  Staff do tend to get players into the sponsored roles that need filling.

1. I feel like my clan could use someone in (position X) for (logistical/out-of-character reason Y).

Response:  Okay, we'll put out a role call for it / well, we disagree, let's talk about it / well, we disagree, that seems like a complete different direction than what we are feeling for this clan, we're not going to do that.
Nyr gives you the go-ahead.  You can do this sort of thing.  If you're gunning for a particular player, though, it would be best left for us to pick the person.

2. I know another player (player Z) who I enjoy playing with, whose playtimes tend to sync up with mine, and who has typically inspired me to fun tiems in the past.

This is very grey area.  It is better to ask, sure, but there are a lot of things missing here.

3. 'Dear staff: I'd like help with (reason Y). Would you consider offering the sponsored role of (position X) to (player Z)?'

This is sort of a grey area.  We actually offer sponsored roles to people without a role call very rarely, anyway.

Doing things without giving people either an IC fair shot at a role or an OOC fair shot at a role = not something we want to do.

[jstorrie]

Doing things without giving people either an IC fair shot at a role or an OOC fair shot at a role = not something we want to do.

I feel that, and I think it's an important principle to keep at the core of the decision-making process.

I also think, however, that players often have valuable insight into who they may best be able to succeed with (in the out-of-character, not-burning-out, having-fun-whenever-I-log-in sense.) I get pretty disappointed when role applications are opened up for a clan I'm in, entertaining and reliable players apply, I'm looking forwards to playing with one or more of them... and instead I get paired with a stranger who goes inactive within a week or two, and I have to wait another three months for good players to have a shot at the role again.

But I get the impression that the rules aren't quite as rigid as I imagine. Next time I'm in that situation I'll discuss it with my clan staff.

[Nyr]

It can't hurt to ask.  At worst you'll get told "no, that there's crazy talk!"

[ianmartin]

Where in the docs does it actually show or suggest you should or could turn in pc reports?

[Talia]

Where in the docs does it actually show or suggest you should or could turn in pc reports?

Hmm. Let's see.

There's the fact that the request tool is linked from the Armageddon.org home page.

Then there's a post by Vanth about submitting reports and requests through the request tool.

Oh, and I see your own clan staff posting within the past week on a clan forum with a request for reports from players in the clan.

But, maybe you mean something else by "in the docs"?

[Reiloth]

Where in the docs does it actually show or suggest you should or could turn in pc reports?

I don't think it's anywhere in the documentation, but it's expected of any leader PC to make weekly reports. I don't think it needs to explicitly be put in documentation, or have a dedicated webpage of 'This Is What We Expect From Leader PC's'. It's common sense, and if it isn't common sense, you can definitely ask your local Staff for guidance or answers to specific questions. Lord knows there's pages and pages of responses from Staff on how to properly order character reports, what's expected of Leader PC's (currently, there's a sticky'd guide from Vanth on How To Play Noble PC's that applies pretty well across the board), etc.

[Reiloth]

Also, 2500. *throws down the microphone*

[Armaddict]

I just want to toss in, for you leader types, when you come to a fully loaded clan (pcs included) and you bail on the clan, we (the pc lackies) are very much effected.

In my opinion it takes someone that is both very selfish and selfless to really fill these roles. I personally wish those applying look closely at their  future RL expectations and weigh them carefully against what they can and are willing to attribute to the IC world.

We all play this game for fun, and some put a lot of time and dedication into being long lived underlings. You hear about Highborn leaders having a hard time keeping the underlings and carrying all that weight. But when a clan can not keep a Highborn leader, there tends to be no more clan. And if you have a group of people that at the lower rungs have worked diligently, and progressively, establishing a long held presence their that most leaders would water at the mouth for, you pretty well screw them on their game and fun.

So please, apply with some responsibility and consideration for the role you wish to undertake.   

I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE YOU POTAJE!  IT WAS OUT OF MY HANDS!  *breaks down into tears*

[Potaje]

I just want to toss in, for you leader types, when you come to a fully loaded clan (pcs included) and you bail on the clan, we (the pc lackies) are very much effected.

In my opinion it takes someone that is both very selfish and selfless to really fill these roles. I personally wish those applying look closely at their  future RL expectations and weigh them carefully against what they can and are willing to attribute to the IC world.

We all play this game for fun, and some put a lot of time and dedication into being long lived underlings. You hear about Highborn leaders having a hard time keeping the underlings and carrying all that weight. But when a clan can not keep a Highborn leader, there tends to be no more clan. And if you have a group of people that at the lower rungs have worked diligently, and progressively, establishing a long held presence their that most leaders would water at the mouth for, you pretty well screw them on their game and fun.

So please, apply with some responsibility and consideration for the role you wish to undertake.   

I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE YOU POTAJE!  IT WAS OUT OF MY HANDS!  *breaks down into tears*

I still adore you, in my heart.

[ianmartin]

Where in the docs does it actually show or suggest you should or could turn in pc reports?

Hmm. Let's see.

There's the fact that the request tool is linked from the Armageddon.org home page.

Then there's a post by Vanth about submitting reports and requests through the request tool.

Oh, and I see your own clan staff posting within the past week on a clan forum with a request for reports from players in the clan.

But, maybe you mean something else by "in the docs"?

Actually, I mean exactly what I posted.  If more newer players, or some older players who aren't in the loop so to speak realize that they can and probably should send in character reports, then they too might have a chance that others take for granted.  For example, post this kind of information in the docs, meaning right there on the page for noobs and others to read stating this.  I looked at the examples you posted and none of these show that character reports should be put in for non leadership positions, neither do they address what should be put into said reports.

[ianmartin]

I retract that, I see where the new storyteller actually says this, but my original point stands where I still contend that this is not normally requested or stated it should be done or what it should contain.

[Nyr]

I retract that, I see where the new storyteller actually says this, but my original point stands where I still contend that this is not normally requested or stated it should be done or what it should contain.

Starting from the leadership angle:

100% of the sponsored roles advertised on the GDB ask that you put in a role application through the request tool.
If you put in a role application, it is assumed you've read the GDB post in question.
100% of sponsored roles pretty much require that you be on the GDB to check in on clan boards as another avenue to communicate with your clan mates as well as staff.
Staff will let you know if they want a report from you and you haven't sent one.

If you are a clan leader or are interested in becoming a clan leader, a certain amount of communication with staff is needed both for you to understand what is expected and for us to understand what you are doing.

With that said, YES, it should be in the documentation that we expect regular reports from character leaders. 
YES, it should be in the documentation that reports from non-leader characters are both allowed and encouraged.
We should definitely fix both of those, and we will.

[CravenMadness]

Field promotions are the way to go.

[solera]

I suspect for many new leaders, Murphy's law applies.  They see an endless expanse of free time, get a role, then RL comes and bashes them in the front teeth.

[ianmartin]

I retract that, I see where the new storyteller actually says this, but my original point stands where I still contend that this is not normally requested or stated it should be done or what it should contain.

Starting from the leadership angle:

100% of the sponsored roles advertised on the GDB ask that you put in a role application through the request tool.
If you put in a role application, it is assumed you've read the GDB post in question.
100% of sponsored roles pretty much require that you be on the GDB to check in on clan boards as another avenue to communicate with your clan mates as well as staff.
Staff will let you know if they want a report from you and you haven't sent one.

If you are a clan leader or are interested in becoming a clan leader, a certain amount of communication with staff is needed both for you to understand what is expected and for us to understand what you are doing.

With that said, YES, it should be in the documentation that we expect regular reports from character leaders. 
YES, it should be in the documentation that reports from non-leader characters are both allowed and encouraged.
We should definitely fix both of those, and we will.

Thank you Nyr

[Zoltan]

I suspect for many new leaders, Murphy's law applies.  They see an endless expanse of free time, get a role, then RL comes and bashes them in the front teeth.

That's what happened on my last one.  It certainly wasn't a store for lack of interest.

[My 2 sids]

I guess my feeling (at least what I try to keep in mind) is that like all PCs Leadership roles take some time to ease into.  But, because the game world often goes a long time w/o seeing a leader PC... every PC in the city rushes the new leadership role.   It can be overwhelming at best, at worst it can make for "insta-enemies" even when not actively trying to do so.

[hyzhenhok]

I suspect for many new leaders, Murphy's law applies.  They see an endless expanse of free time, get a role, then RL comes and bashes them in the front teeth.

That's what happened on my last one.  It certainly wasn't a store for lack of interest.

It's not only sponsored roles, either. You spend a long time and work yourself up from grunt to slightly-promoted-grunt, and staff says ok, we'll promote you to lower-level-leader-over-the-other-grunts, and then IRL makes you give it up after they've set things up and look like an ass.