Magickal sub-guilds?

[Down Under]

Holy moley; you know what's more interesting than magickal sub-guilds?

Extended subguilds include options such as "Master Tailor" which will allow a character to excel in the area of tailoring, including producing work at a mastercraft levell.  For the more adventurous Cutpurse or Master of Defense might be more applicable.  Subguilds will be available for those who wish to trade, craft, fight, roam or follow a path to magick.

Mundane subguilds with shield use, parry, or weapon skills.  Put that in your 'gicker and smoke it.  Things is gettin' mixed up good.

yeah, a krathi who's also good in a straight fight, can't wait to see them running around

Who says you'll see them? They may get you before you see them......mabye a sub-guild with sneak.....

Or just a d-elf...Yikes.

[Taven]

While I'm sure some testing and adjustments will also need to be made, I have no doubts that the imms wouldn't introduce anything unbalancing.

I think this change will be a good one. It certainly will make people more wary about magickers.

[RogueGunslinger]

There's little about this game I could call balanced. That said most sub-guild skills notoriously suck ass.

[EldritchOrigins]

Sorcerer subguilds would be cool.

[Taven]

There's little about this game I could call balanced. That said most sub-guild skills notoriously suck ass.

Well, granted nothing is perfect, but I think that there's a strong effort to keep things reasonably balanced. Do I mean "balanced" as in every guild is perfectly even with another? No. But there are drawbacks and pluses for each guild (be it coded, RP requirements, or otherwise), that make things pretty reasonable. I don't think anything has been crazy unbalanced, at least not that I have noticed. You could start another thread on the balance of the game, or lack thereof, if you'd like.

I don't tend to use many subguilds, as it is. There's maybe three that I've ever really used to any extent.

[number13]

Sorcerer subguilds would be cool.

Sorcerer subguild wouldn't make any sense.  What's to stop someone who learned magick from learning more magick?  Whereas, an elementalist who was only kinda touched by an element seems plausible.

Anyway, I imagine the magicker subguilds will be a high karma toy, especially if you are mixing up an elementalist guild with an elementalist subguild.  You have to pay a premium for the special subguild on top of paying for your class, so the Drovian/Krathi might end up costing 5 karma for main class and another 4 or 5 for the subguild.  So... special app only, and then only if you are at the top of the karma food chain to begin with.

I'd be more interested in *not really magickers* subguilds, like a Witchhunter with the permanent ability to detect invisibility and enchantments, or a Cave Dweller with perma-infravision.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'd be more interested in *not really magickers* subguilds, like a Witchhunter with the permanent ability to detect invisibility and enchantments, or a Cave Dweller with perma-infravision.

Um... is it just me, or does it seem kind of silly to have a witchhunter with abilities that are, literally, by their very nature... magickal?

[jstorrie]

Sorcerer subguild wouldn't make any sense.  What's to stop someone who learned magick from learning more magick?

What's to stop someone who learned archery from learning more archery? Oh, their subguild hunter archery cap.

Seems like apples to apples, donut?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Sorcerer subguilds would be cool.

These would be badass. And logical. According to the helpfiles, there are 4 different paths to choose from. Someone not interested in anything but enchanting? Why not? Makes sense they might want to try the path of enchantment, warmongering raider? Why would they care about creation or movement? etc.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd be more interested in *not really magickers* subguilds, like a Witchhunter with the permanent ability to detect invisibility and enchantments, or a Cave Dweller with perma-infravision.

Um... is it just me, or does it seem kind of silly to have a witchhunter with abilities that are, literally, by their very nature... magickal?

Not at all. Why is that silly? Seems like a great concept for a breed of some sort, with psychotic tendencies and self mutilation for flavor.

[Taven]

...so the Drovian/Krathi might end up costing 5 karma for main class and another 4 or 5 for the subguild....

I'm pretty sure that a Drovian/Krathi would be made impossible. I don't think this subguild will change the game in any major way, such as having elementalists having access to spells that they normally would not.

I'd be more interested in *not really magickers* subguilds, like a Witchhunter with the permanent ability to detect invisibility and enchantments, or a Cave Dweller with perma-infravision.

Um... is it just me, or does it seem kind of silly to have a witchhunter with abilities that are, literally, by their very nature... magickal?

Not at all. Why is that silly? Seems like a great concept for a breed of some sort, with psychotic tendencies and self mutilation for flavor.

Well, you could do that already, just actually use a guild magicker to do so. You can hunt others to yourself to your heart's content. Otherwise, I can't see any magick-like effects going in, but being non-magickal. Why be a magicker at all then? It would also alter the game significantly.

[RogueGunslinger]

I just read that three times and have no idea what you're saying. Mind rewording it a bit? I'm not drunk I swear.

[EldritchOrigins]

Sorcerer subguilds would be cool.

Sorcerer subguild wouldn't make any sense.  What's to stop someone who learned magick from learning more magick?  Whereas, an elementalist who was only kinda touched by an element seems plausible.

What's to stop a subguild tailor from learning to be a master tailor?

[Taven]

I just read that three times and have no idea what you're saying. Mind rewording it a bit? I'm not drunk I swear.

Okay, the conversation was as follows: (yes, I am paraphrasing)

Number13: It would be cool if there was a witch hunter type subguild, that had magickal-like abilities, without them being magick.

AmandaGreathouse: It's silly to have a witch hunter guild, since the abilities you mentioned are by their nature magickal.

RogueGunslinger: No, it doesn't seem silly at all, you could do a crazy, masochistic breed PC.

So then my last post was:

Taven: Why don't you just make a crazy, masochistic breed PC as a magicker guild PC? Or a subguild magick PC? They could hunt others like themselves, and hate themselves, and all would be good. I don't think staff would put in abilities that were magick-like but not magick. If you could do that, why would people play magickers?


Admittedly my last post doesn't seem to be especially readable (for example "you can hunt others to yourself to your heart's content" sounds like a Cerelumism), but my excuse is that it's around 3am. I am a little tired.

[Dakota]

You could have a witchhunter guild that could detect aura's. See if someone is a witch or not. Like a kind of third sight. Not necissarily detect invis or things like that but more vague. And / or boosted magickal resistance.

[musashi]

yeah, a krathi who's also good in a straight fight, can't wait to see them running around

... You haven't seen those? Where have you been? 

[Dan]

yeah, a krathi who's also good in a straight fight, can't wait to see them running around

... You haven't seen those? Where have you been? 

*cringes*

[Dakota]

yeah, a krathi who's also good in a straight fight, can't wait to see them running around

... You haven't seen those? Where have you been? 

Yeah I've been meaning to either send in a complaint to nerf or to make one of my own and PK like crazy to get them nerfed...

[musashi]

yeah, a krathi who's also good in a straight fight, can't wait to see them running around

... You haven't seen those? Where have you been? 

Yeah I've been meaning to either send in a complaint to nerf or to make one of my own and PK like crazy to get them nerfed...

Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo on 

[Dakota]

<3 u musashi

[musashi]

Love you too.

[AmandaGreathouse]

You could have a witchhunter guild that could detect aura's. See if someone is a witch or not. Like a kind of third sight. Not necissarily detect invis or things like that but more vague. And / or boosted magickal resistance.

There's already something for that. That is a supernatural ability. And if off/def won't have boosts, why would they offer boosts for magick resistance?

[Dakota]

You could have a witchhunter guild that could detect aura's. See if someone is a witch or not. Like a kind of third sight. Not necissarily detect invis or things like that but more vague. And / or boosted magickal resistance.

There's already something for that. That is a supernatural ability. And if off/def won't have boosts, why would they offer boosts for magick resistance?

RE: witch hunter subclass or a subclass that can -see- if someone is a witch or not - Yes but it would be neat if a few magicky subs would get added in, that a sub would get added in, not to counter them per-say but to give some PCs the ability to tell if someone is or isn't a witch via sight (through the subclass)

RE: bc I wasn't thinking about magick res in terms of combat or in the karma spending to boost something in character gen, but more or less something gained from the subclass.

[Zoltan]

If you want to see if someone's magick, use a magick spell that would allow you that ability. This "I can sense the presence of magick in a coded, concrete way but oh no -I'm- not magick, silly!" is kind of crap. You're either 'gick, or you're not. Doesn't matter what sort of access you have to the spell tree at large. Anyone that gathers mana at will is a sorcerer no matter what their spell tree is like.

I'm sure these subguild additions aren't meant to make magick somehow more tolerable because someone's not a "real" 'gicker. Just because someone's skills may make them only part-way magick doesn't mean that they aren't magick as far as the game world is concerned.

The idea of a sorcerer subguild makes me a little wary, I'll admit. Even if you're restricted to one path of magick, that's a shit load of useful magick. Personally, due to the nature of how that works and how it's in the game world, I would hope a thing like that would be spec app only, honestly.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If you want to see if someone's magick, use a magick spell that would allow you that ability. This "I can sense the presence of magick in a coded, concrete way but oh no -I'm- not magick, silly!" is kind of crap. You're either 'gick, or you're not

That's PRECISELY what I was getting at. There's a reason people are afraid of magick and magick was able to break the world. In many cases, it's the trump card. You can do things to try to circumvent it, but if you're trying to play ball with it, in most cases, it takes magick in and of itself. So involving D&D-like spell-like abilities which don't exist elsewhere in the world is just kind of...silly.