Playing a racist

[Saellyn]

So. Here's a fun one.

It's in documentation that certain races (i.e. elves, humans) are racists. Very. Racist. Humans hate the crap out of elves, elves hate the crap out of humans.

I have yet to see a good example of this in the game world. Ever.

Why? Why are people so afraid to play racists? This isn't America, this isn't hugandkissthas. This is Zalanthas. Yet all I've seen are people sucking up to elves, elves sucking up to people, people in general sucking up to other races and kissing ass and really making it hard to get properly immersed.

Racism is bad IRL, I get it. Unfortunately, in Zalanthas, it's not bad, and you should start playing racists and stop playing carebears.

Yes, this is a dig. Yes, I'm very annoyed. So, here's the discussion part:

How many people play racists here, and how do you do it? Are you in your face "you suck you stupid necker" racists? Or do you just say "Yeah, I don't deal with your kind" or are you more of point and snicker type?

[Barzalene]

I tend to be the last two.

[Riev]

Depends on my position. If I basically HAVE to deal with them as a part of the characters job, then yeah, I'll deal with their dumb asses.

But after playing in Tuluk, many a time, and getting my ass handed to me for even -saying- necker, I just prefer to ignore.

Either way, they're going to kill you.

[boog]

There is plenty of subtle racism in the game. No one says to be a racist you need to go stick burning crosses in peoples' yards or murder them because of ethnicity.

I've seen subtle racism soooo much. And even overt racism, as in north versus south, so... Hm. I dunno.

[TheBadSeed]

Depends on my position. If I basically HAVE to deal with them as a part of the characters job, then yeah, I'll deal with their dumb asses.

But after playing in Tuluk, many a time, and getting my ass handed to me for even -saying- necker, I just prefer to ignore.

Either way, they're going to kill you.

I was away from Arm for a long ass time, (12+ years), and was surprised at the lack of racism when I came back recently. I mean, elves are full fledged and -trusted- members of society. When I tried to RP elves as being conniving bastards, it was shrugged off by pretty much everyone with a laugh.

Seems like racism in Zalanthas has fallen to the wayside.

[bcw81]

My suggestion is that if you're playing a racist in Tuluk is to not be the "I'm going to kill you you ***ing necker/roundear" type, and think of a better, more subtle way to say "I dislike your kind, stay away from me."

If you're playing in the south though, go for it.

[Erythil]

Zalanthas is clearly in the midst of a cultural revolution.

The abolitionist movement is next!   

[Majikal]

I haven't played a non-racist pc in years I don't think. Though some have been more subtlety racist while some were very loud and outspoken about shitty neckers and Southern barbarians in the right atmosphere.

I've noticed people tend to forget that their pc might be racist, unless of course you get the ball rolling.

Folks are then pretty quick to jump on the hate train once you let them know you're willing to be the conductor on that son of a bitch.

[HavokBlue]

I like being a racist prick ICly, and I wish people were more willing to go along with it, instead of jumping to kill you or beat the shit out of you for calling their mudsex buddy a filthy necker.

[HTX]

Huh, I've had plenty of characters throw out racist remarks (of varying subtlety) and nobody's ever hated on my characters for this.

Wouldn't mind seeing more quantity and variety of racism in the game, though.

[Gunnerblaster]

Meh. I just tend to avoid it, all together.

People are too touchy on this game and don't really play it other than the way they want to play it, regardless of racism.

It seems the one trying to be racist is suddenly pinned as "the bad guy" and everyone has a tendency to jump to the victim's defense.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I stopped playing regularly in Tuluk.

In the south, I'm as racist as I want to be. (which is a lot)

[Quell]

Zalanthas is clearly in the midst of a cultural revolution.

The abolitionist movement is next!   

Yay! Abolish the elves! And tall people in general. Everyone knows that there's a certain height at which all conspiring takes place, and it's around the 6 foot mark.

[X-D]

All my PCs are racist. Well, not the half-giants, but they don't understand it is all, they will act racist if taught.

My elves are the most racist, followed by my dwarves then humans.

The elves tend to be overtly, the dwarves will seem subtly racist usually, though that is just because a dwarf is good at just ignoring things:) Humans tend to be middle of the road.

I see plenty of racism IG, though I admit most that I see tends to come from PCs controled by players that have been around for a few years.

[musashi]

I am currently playing my most racist character ever, and coincidentally having a grand ole' time.
But yeah I don't often see a great deal of overt racism. There are likely both IG reasons for it like some people have already expressed, and OOC reasons like the player base being small so -that- breed or -that- elf is almost always connected to important people in some fashion.

[Cutthroat]

"Wink-wink" racism seems more appropriate than overt racism at times. It depends on the setting as well as the character itself. Subtle racism is called for even in Allanak, and overt racism can fit into Tuluk. We should remember that racism isn't just harassment, and actually doesn't have to involve any harassment at all.

How I do racism:
- What is my character's race?
- What are some stereotypes about every other race besides his own?
  - Elves are thieving bastards.
  - Dwarves have a tendency to be unreliable, focusing instead on, well, their focus (how employers particularly might be racist against dwarves)
  - Half-elves have too much elf blood in them (if my character is not an elf) or too much human blood in them (if my character is an elf).
  - Half-giants are dumbasses that can't think for themselves.
  - Muls are angsty, prone to violence, and (if a dwarf that hates humans, see below) have too much human blood in them.

Being racist against humans as a non-human is tricky, because they're the middle-of-the-road race. However, that fact makes them have inferior qualities when compared by other races.

- Elves will think humans are dumber and slower.
- Dwarves will think humans are weaker, and might even hold a grudge about that whole slavery thing, in Allanak.
- Half-elves know how much their kind has been brutalized by humans. Also, especially if they identify more with the elven race, there's the whole dumber and slower thing.
- Muls will remember humans are the slave owners and mul breeders of the world.

Being a racist half-giant depends on whose example they follow, and are a wildcard of sorts. I could even see half-giant racist that was pushed into servitude by a human scholar that really hated half-giants, resulting in the half-giant being racist toward other half-giants.

After I establish some stereotypes for my PC (the above are examples that could be used, though more could certainly be thought of) I put them into practice constantly. Whether it's outright or done mostly in my character's mind as he makes decisions or has thoughts is up to me. You never set aside those stereotypes tempoarily just to start a plot or have some interaction, though you can do those things while keeping the stereotypes in mind.

And keep in mind that stereotypes are not necessarily true. Don't be afraid of forming a stereotype for your PC to believe in if it's not especially enforced by code or the current documentation, but is instead based off of your PC's background, a strange quirk, etc.

I see plenty of racism IG, but then again I also see flagrant disregard for the separation of races at times, too. Sometimes it's annoying, but I don't let that spoil my enjoyment of what is a thoroughly racist-filled setting.

[Chettaman]

I love being racist! (ic)
Those vnpc bynners that wail on that breed in the gaj for no reason, cracks me up! I can't wait to see actual PCs do it. Bullies. We need more bullies. I don't think this thread is about racism at all. (joking) I think this thread is challenging those already racist (because I see them) to be more hostile. For no reason other then that guy's not like me and he should be picked on. He doesn't have to leave (unless I say so), he doesn't have to do anything (unless I say so) but get picked on by me because he is inferior to my superior human strength and other superior human abilities!

In closing...
I bet you won't.

[Cind]

maybe your character doesn't want any trouble, or can't afford it and is not protected by anybody. and over half of pcs can't really afford the kind of trouble that would come out of trying to shank some random elf in the gaj because they're bored--- that elf might be in the Jaxa Pah and you might be in shit.

the opportunity for your indie human's overt racism may be backed by a templar or authority figure one out of a hundred times or less. the opportunity might just not arise for the major stuff.

seriously, though--- playing an elf in allanak is _hard_ because of the racism thing. you're always watching your back, and you get kicked out of Red's about five times as often as you might get kicked out of the Firestorm. when you act like an elf, when you act and speak like that roundear's possessions are already yours, the racism almost clicks on like a light. try it, its great.

[Mooney]

I was a foul-mouthed open racist in the south...and even in the north when my character traveled there (due to ignorance of how neckers were valued there, not bravado or deep immersion). Never got killed!

But I've also experienced the northie who chats them up and shares laughs, partly profession, partly personality. Sure there's subtle consistent racism, but it lacks the zest.

[Kaiden]

I gave up trying to play a racist in the north a while ago.

A bit like Gunnerblaster, I came to the conclusion that if you don't want to be universally hated and you want more than just a few characters to interact with, then you better not be too racist toward elves or your racism will be known as far as Allanak within a few weeks.

I've seen everything from dwarves being best buddies with elves, human females openly defending the reputation of an elf, human men offering to protect elf women outside the gates just to have a chance to chat up some ladies, a tons of humans sleeping with elves, etc, etc.. And that was in the last 6 months or so.

I met so many characters that had an 'excuse' to not be racist it's not even funny.. ''I judge a person by his action and not his blood'', ''I was raised in Luir's so I hung out with many elves before, they are just like us'', ''Look at what this elf did for our city, how can you not be in awe toward him?'', ''I work for Clan X and a customer is a customer''.

Now I'm more like.. ''Yeah, elves are dumb, but there's 10 of them at the bar and nobody else to interact with.''

[janeshephard]

I have yet to see a good example of this in the game world. Ever.

I'm playing a very racist human toward elves. It's very alive and well. I played a half-elf who got the crap beaten out of him for just being a breed.

[Cind]

i do think a human actively choosing to be friendly to an elf when there's another perfectly good human sitting right there is kind of weird. i've seen it before, its been done to me, i've tried avoiding it but sometimes circumstances won't let you. i don't think its a total fail because i've noticed its much more easier to get in good with humans as a human pc once i finally stopped being an elf because humans tend to be nicer to other humans. it still surprises me when i play a human.

there's a lot of players who simply don't want to be that mean; you don't have to be. be nervous around elves or something, as though you're sitting amongt prison inmates. ICly, its virtually the same principle, and the method i use most often.

I have yet to see a good example of this in the game world. Ever.

It's very alive and well.

i wished i remembered the name of this one racist fellow so i can kudos them. they made it into an art form, and i loved being discriminated against by them.

[Kankman]

I gave up trying to play a racist in the north a while ago.

A bit like Gunnerblaster, I came to the conclusion that if you don't want to be universally hated and you want more than just a few characters to interact with, then you better not be too racist toward elves or your racism will be known as far as Allanak within a few weeks.

I've seen everything from dwarves being best buddies with elves, human females openly defending the reputation of an elf, human men offering to protect elf women outside the gates just to have a chance to chat up some ladies, a tons of humans sleeping with elves, etc, etc.. And that was in the last 6 months or so.

I met so many characters that had an 'excuse' to not be racist it's not even funny.. ''I judge a person by his action and not his blood'', ''I was raised in Luir's so I hung out with many elves before, they are just like us'', ''Look at what this elf did for our city, how can you not be in awe toward him?'', ''I work for Clan X and a customer is a customer''.

Now I'm more like.. ''Yeah, elves are dumb, but there's 10 of them at the bar and nobody else to interact with.''

If you're playing Armageddon and your character lives in Tuluk, you're doing it wrong. This is reason number 5003.

[Barzalene]

I haven't played in Tuluk for the last two or three years, at least not extensively. But in '08 when I played my most obnoxious and  confrontational pc, who was blatantly racist, my pc was extremely successful. Don't let fear stop you from playing the docs. Play to the highest common denominator, not the lowest.

[Dakota]

I think many ppl are afraid to rock the boat w/ full on, balls to the wall, "OK.. Docs say elves are thieving, nekker scum.." running away with it kinda thing.

I think players are a bit too timid tbh and racism is certainly one aspect. Role forcing you to be exposed to them? So. If you hate them, hate them. Give them a mark up and laugh in their fucking face about it.

[Talia]

You know, we have this conversation pretty frequently. Sometimes, yes, pissing people off via overt racism (or whatever other means) can get your character laughed at, hurt, or killed. Sometimes it doesn't, especially when you have the right friends, position, power, or money. Also, just because other characters are not overtly calling elves/dwarves/whathaveyou names does not mean there is no racism happening. Casual, systemic racism is as valid as overt KKK-style racism; and it's much more important to the whole operation of the system in the hierarchical power structures of the cities. My suggestion is that each player should decide for him/herself what type of character to play, and how much risk to take, and then not complain about the play of other players, nor complain about what happens to their character if they're not smart about their own play.

Also, technically, hatred north vs. south and vice versa is not racism. That's nationalism/culturalism.

Personally, I'd love to see characters of all stripes hating on characters from other groups much more just because they are not in the "in" group. (Bynners vs. militia, Salarr vs. Kadius, etc.) Even better, I'd love to see this in players' thinks and feels, not just in snide comments or invitations to brawl.

[Riev]

Echo'ing what Talia said, about Group vs Group ribbing.

However, just there can be good natured ribbing. Like, the Byn making fun of the Legionnaires for being city bound, and poor bastards, or the Arm of the Dragon saying the Byn are a bunch of fuck ups who are only good for throwing themselves at spider nests.



However, two major points I agree with. The playerbase is small, and chances are that necker, or that breed, knows someone who knows someone. You need a backing if you're going to be an asshole. And also, if you're going to walk up to a Sun Runner, and tell them they're filthy neckers that can't do a damn thing right and have no place in the Known... well... you're pissing off a family, not just one necker. You get whats coming.

[X-D]

Sadly, on the groups thing.

Currently and past few years by both PC and NPC leaders, this has been...let us say, discouraged.

Though it has not always been so. And when it was not, I found it to be much more fun. Sadly, many things have been put into place that limit such thing, sometimes even in the docs. From the different clans that have holdings north and south basically splitting into north and south clans to clan "alliances".

All of which serve to lower the amount of PC on PC or clan on clan or culture on culture friction...sadly.

[Lizzie]

Racism doesn't mean active participation in violence against someone you hate.

Racism is the overall topic. Active participation in violence is one out of many possible expressions.

A human merchant might overcharge an elf on a purchase, or discover that the item the elf wants, is also wanted by another human, who gets first dibs.

An elf raiding a dwarf might require the stump's snake-coiled snowstorm-embossed obsidian-bladed bone bastard sword of doom, while only demanding two arrows and a shard of flint from an elven victim. And the same elf might require THREE arrows, a shard of obsidian, and two kalan fruits, if his elven victim is from the city.

A dwarf might make fun of an elf, in mirrikum, to his dwarvish buddy at the bar. And smile sweetly with a hearty how do ya do when he shifts to allundean.

Lots and lots of ways to express racism in Armageddon. Violence and direct insults are only a small piece of it.

[Intrepid]

At the risk of pedantism, it sounds like there is a claim of racism versus discrimination.  Racism is an attitude that can be held toward someone without necessarily being displayed, whereas discrimination involves acting out toward racism, classism, nationalism/culturalism, etc.

All of my pcs are racist.  If they're crude, they'll probably discriminate in more overt ways.  If they're social, their racism might be more obvious, but more wordy.  It all depends on the pc, but there's plenty to hate in Zalanthas.

And for those of you who don't think that humans have a stereotype, consider this viewpoint as a possible example among many:

Humans are obsessive, hiveminded assholes who made two monolithic cities, probably even more of them that got blasted to pieces or buried under salt.  They seek to own everything; land, people, the fucking sky even.  Of all the races, humans own the most slaves, keep the most excess, gobble up the most resources.  Even their tribals can't keep an equilibrium with their surroundings.  Whereas the elves of the Pah and the North can keep from obliterating the regions they live in, the cities are pustulent sores, the only fans of the Muark are themselves and the Benjari blasted themselves into oblivion  And what the hell is with all these half-humans?  Muls, half-elves, half-giants?  Can't these drov-damned humans keep their fucking clothes on???

Yes, I realize that, as a player, this is an unfair judgement call on the entire human race--however!  It uses the available, most commonly known "facts" about humans on Zalanthas and renders judgement.  That's racism.  If you do something toward humans, that's discrimination.

And Talia is most correct: Groups should at least have rivalries!  Don't be afraid of Us vs Them.  If you're a magicker, you're better than most of the unskilled labor of the Known World.  Your group of elves is more worthy than any other, city or desert.  Your dwarven line accomplished more in its lineage than any lazy sorceror-king-sucking human or lazyass elven thief.  And as humans...heh.  You own everything.  Your king, your templars, your nobles, your merchant masters--all human, baby.

Armageddon finds its power in groups and rp is slanted in undeniably in that direction.  Factionalization is great and can pepper roleplay to nicely detailed levels if you allow it to.

[Dakota]

+1 for more overt rivalries between factions, north and south, etc.

hopefully now that dasari is open, they'll plant a field and grow some balls for PCs who should shake things up.

[Cutthroat]

Yeah... there's plenty of factional discrimination/rivavlries in-game already. Factional rivalries are more obvious: north vs. south, rivalries between merchant and noble houses, tries and cities, tribes and other tribes, etc. You may not be seeing those things happen, but they should be happening - and if you are not participating in them with any of your characters, you're missing a huge part of conflict in Armageddon.

The issue at hand is racism, and racial discrimination, and it tends to be an issue often discussed here. I think it's because people don't really know how racism works, and they expect one kind of racial discrimination when in fact there are a lot of kinds.

Racism starts with a stereotype, and consequently leads to discrimination based upon that stereotype. You don't see a lot of KKK-style overt racism in Armageddon is because such activities were usually done to incite widespread violence between two groups. So you see the more subtle racism that is more common IRL because, despicable though it is, it is "safer". It is also "safer" in Zalanthas, and we all know a Zalanthan that sticks his neck out (short neck or long neck) for no reason quickly dies.

[Spoon]

My PCs in recent years dish out and take plenty of racism. I can only guess the OP is unfortunate and has missed out.

[NOFUN]

I've always thought that the average mundane nobody would keep there opinions to themselves owing to elves making up much of the population with many having tribes backing them, humans owning everything and dwarves being tough.

Half-elves don't really have anything that would make a person think twice, unless they're long lived bad ass PC's.

[RogueGunslinger]

My PCs in recent years dish out and take plenty of racism. I can only guess the OP is unfortunate and has missed out.

[Jeshin]

Racism starts when you stop sexing them! Unless you're giving them an ingame disease and you feel bad at least a little bit afterwords.

[Spoon]

I've always thought that the average mundane nobody would keep there opinions to themselves owing to elves making up much of the population with many having tribes backing them, humans owning everything and dwarves being tough.

Half-elves don't really have anything that would make a person think twice, unless they're long lived bad ass PC's.

Just a thought, as there's a few posts in a similar vein to this one above, being a racist doesn't mean you have to walk up to the race in question and say "I fucking hate you.". It could do, but certainly doesn't have to.

[hyzhenhok]

Bah. Openly insulting elves and breeds who have posses to back them up is where all the fun is.

Dying is fun!

[Intrepid]

My PCs in recent years dish out and take plenty of racism. I can only guess the OP is unfortunate and has missed out.

+1

In fact, there has been only one time anyone tried to chide one of my pcs for being racist.  I saw a female dwarven stripper years ago up in the Tembo during one of those rare flights of fancy where I made a northerner.  Seeing what was, both ic and ooc, a ridiculous sight prompted my pc to laugh.  The proprietor at the time got pissy with me, but I shrugged it off.  Fortunately, I was not alone in thinking the situation was hilarious and absurd looking.

[Cind]

Bah. Openly insulting elves and breeds who have posses to back them up is where all the fun is.

Dying is fun!

I want to know when you play.

[Clavis]

I enjoy having all you racist people sleep with my char's just to show you how weak and pathetic your race truelly is!

[AmandaGreathouse]

I enjoy having all you racist people sleep with my char's just to show you how weak and pathetic your race truelly is!

Says the one who'd actually lower themselves to sleep with that sort of life-form.

Sure I could sleep with a hot guy/girl of my own race. But I'd rather screw dirt in a passive-aggressive ploy to show them they're inferior.

Do wha'?

[Clavis]

I enjoy having all you racist people sleep with my char's just to show you how weak and pathetic your race truelly is!

Says the one who'd actually lower themselves to sleep with that sort of life-form.

Sure I could sleep with a hot guy/girl of my own race. But I'd rather screw dirt in a passive-aggressive ploy to show them they're inferior.

Do wha'?

I never said my char's where racists  their always the sweet lovable types that get the haters to sleep with them in that passive-aggressive ploy cause their to weak to be an active racists! Ugg my char's suck!

[Bilanthri]

Certainly, as players, we represent a unique sub-set of world culture. And we often display this by being outside the norm, as is evidenced by the PC wealth issue. On the issue of bigotry, it's understandable that a lot of us find it difficult to adequately portray what is an odious trait in the real world. This is one reason why I appreciate the inherent social and cultural factors that keep that aspect of our mutually experienced world alive.

In the Rinth, the shape of your PC's ears can mean life or death, depending on what alley you happen to stroll down. If you're looking for work and your neck is long, then good luck with Salarr or Kadius, and I advise not even approaching the noble houses. Certainly, the majority of game-supported racism is presented by human culture, but humans are, by far, the most racist of the lot. Elves come close, but their brand of racism is more akin to elitism mixed with xenophobia.

A human merchant who overcharges those of elven blood is racist, even if the elves and breeds don't realize their getting fleeced. An elf who, when walking into a tavern, is greeted by quickly closed purses and thinks to him/her self, "Fool roundears, if I wanted their coin, I would take it.", is meeting racism with racism (and may get some coin later). You don't have to be a violent, loud-mouthed a%&h@le to be a bigot, you just have to believe another person is less than you, and let your actions speak for you.

In short, pick a team and back them with all you've got. But play to your strengths.

[Fathi]

Ways To Discriminate Without Being Violent:

1. Pay less attention to people who aren't your race.
"What do you mean 'do I know which dwarf it was.' They all look the same!"

2. Charge people of a different race more for your goods/services.
NPCs in at least one location already do this!

2a. Make those of a different race jump through extra hoops to get your goods/services.
"Sorry, Halfbreed Ranger, I can't get those arrows to you 'til I have enough bits of stone to make them. Would you be a dear and dig them for me?"

3. Buy a round for everyone at the bar except those of other races.

4. If you don't feel like acting hateful, acting suspicious works too.
hemote glances sideways at ~elf, keeping an eye on !elf

5. If you see people of your race being too nice to people of another race, tease them.
"Malik is too high and mighty to sit with us humans. Look at him, hanging out with that busty breed over there."

6. Like nobles and commoners, just remember: you're better than them. Sometimes if you put a ton of effort into trying to prove you're better--which is something everyone should already know--you're the one who ends up looking like a tool.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I have played strong racist pc's . I had one that was in a position of authority and would shake down anyone that was not of his race.  Make him give them their packs, clothes weapons, tools, sids ect.  It was kind of hard for me to do though and I really had to think about what and how to do it.  One of the encounters was epic in front of lots of people.  Most were pretty lame though. 

[hyzhenhok]

Two more 'sids:

Just because everyone is supposed to be racist doesn't mean racism is "protected." There's nothing special about racism that means other players can't respond negatively to it. In fact, it's pretty much by definition that targets of racism should respond negatively.

If you are doing racism the loud, obnoxious and openly insulting way (and you should! It's fun), and something bad happens to you: that bad thing is happening to you because you were loud, obnoxious and openly insulting. Not because you were racist. Some settings it's okay to be loud and obnoxious: those are the locations where it's safest to be the openly hostile racist schtick. And do not be loud and obnoxious against someone while on their turf. That half-elf Kuraci Fist soldier knows he's dirt, but that doesn't mean you're not playing with fire if you insult him to his face while you're in Luir's.

Still, kudos to everyone who does the open, obnoxious racism even when it's clear that it will have negative, complex consequences in the future. Restrained racism and begrudging tolerance is the norm: it's refreshing to see outright rejection from time to time.

[HTX]

Just because everyone is supposed to be racist doesn't mean racism is "protected." There's nothing special about racism that means other players can't respond negatively to it. In fact, it's pretty much by definition that targets of racism should respond negatively.

[...]

Of course. Although it does get a little odd when a half-elf kills someone over been called a shitblood (do they kill the other three VNPCs who probably call them a shitblood daily, as well?) but I'd definitely expect -some- kind of reaction, even if it's just pent up rage or the like.

[Qzzrbl]

Just because everyone is supposed to be racist doesn't mean racism is "protected." There's nothing special about racism that means other players can't respond negatively to it. In fact, it's pretty much by definition that targets of racism should respond negatively.

[...]

Of course. Although it does get a little odd when a half-elf kills someone over been called a shitblood (do they kill the other three VNPCs who probably call them a shitblood daily, as well?) but I'd definitely expect -some- kind of reaction, even if it's just pent up rage or the like.

What's worse is when the half-elf's human buddy does the killing.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm pretty much totally okay with that. As long as he's actually friends with the half-elf, and not just some random bystander.

[Qzzrbl]

I'm pretty much totally okay with that. As long as he's actually friends with the half-elf, and not just some random bystander.

So that dirty halfbreed's human buddy shanking you to the great mantis head in the sky because you said something nasty to said shitblood is a-okay?

[DustMight]

Two more 'sids:

Just because everyone is supposed to be racist doesn't mean racism is "protected." There's nothing special about racism that means other players can't respond negatively to it. In fact, it's pretty much by definition that targets of racism should respond negatively.

If you are doing racism the loud, obnoxious and openly insulting way (and you should! It's fun), and something bad happens to you: that bad thing is happening to you because you were loud, obnoxious and openly insulting.

Maybe.  It seems to me that in a racist culture the minorities would be used to being treated in such a way.  It would be expected and normal.  Maybe it would rise to the level of violence on occasion, but a halfbreed ought to think twice before drawing a blade on a human who is calling them out - maybe the halfbreed should expect that the rest of the humans nearby are going to react negatively to that, and maybe being called out is pretty normal for the halfbreed.  That's what makes him so darn insecure to begin with, right?

Racist behavior shouldn't be a surprise, it should be expected and normal.  Really, the racist should be thinking of calling out or cutting down the halfbreed's full-blooded friend for HIS behavior.  (In this pretty unsubtle example.)  The rest of us should be (IMO) pretty uncomfortable around Muls with weapons, in Allanak maybe dwarves should still carry the taint of slavery (Why they are in House Tor is not something I understand.) and unconsciously racism should be a part of any full-blooded (human or elf) person's personality, generally.  Subtle examples might include not paying as much attention to the lesser races, not worrying so much about giving them their fair share, their feelings or considerations. Treating them as lesser or non-persons (without overt maliciousness) is a more accurate depiction of a culture-wide tendency toward racism.  

We shouldn't fear to call a halfbreed a "mixed-blood, shitblood, mud-blood or half-man," after all, our characters grew up that way.  That' s what those halfbreeds are.   That's what those Muls are - slaves, lions with weapons trained to kill with a tendency to blood lust.  

The whole kill the character for being racist is an overreaction because the player finds the racism insulting to the character. The character called out would have endured such behavior for years - unless they are serial murderers, why would they break just then?  Only because the player of the character can find an IG target.

It shouldn't be special that full-bloods are racist and it should not be a surprise to the halfbreeds and such.  It should be the status quo.

One of the changes that could be made, IG, would be to vary NPC merchant pricing to support a kind of social norm racism.  Half-elves should get shit deals from many full-blood merchants, for example - especially in the cities and maybe humans from elves and vice-versa (and maybe that's already IG).  I'm just saying - the racism is institutionalized, command and should be expected and not necessarily responded to with violence.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm pretty much totally okay with that. As long as he's actually friends with the half-elf, and not just some random bystander.

So that dirty halfbreed's human buddy shanking you to the great mantis head in the sky because you said something nasty to said shitblood is a-okay?

Yep. I've seen people kill others for less. It's a harsh world. As long as there was motivation... why does it matter what race a person is? IC is IC. It may be a very severe reaction, but well... Welcome to Armageddon.

[Cind]

oppressed minorities do have a significantly higher crime rate. just saying

also: being an elf in the 'rinth is possible one of the hardest roles in the game. its absolutely insane.

but i stopped playing humans for the most part because being human is too fucking easy. its too easy to get to a position of relative power almost anywhere.

coded favoritism is also available in-game, at least to my knowledge. if you're an upstanding citizen, independent or not, of your city-state, at least in one of them, there's at least one significant perk that requires npc interaction. i'm not sure if it extends beyond that, or if they'll hand it to you if you're not human or of human appearance.

[HavokBlue]

I'm pretty much totally okay with that. As long as he's actually friends with the half-elf, and not just some random bystander.

So that dirty halfbreed's human buddy shanking you to the great mantis head in the sky because you said something nasty to said shitblood is a-okay?

Yep. I've seen people kill others for less. It's a harsh world. As long as there was motivation... why does it matter what race a person is? IC is IC. It may be a very severe reaction, but well... Welcome to Armageddon.

The point is that racism seems to be underrepresented because EVERYONE is best friends with that breed.

Just because that breed's your bro doesn't mean he's not dirty half-necker scum.

[Riev]

Hey! I remember this discussion when it wasn't racial racism, but magicker.... magickerism.

[WarriorPoet]

I stopped playing regularly in Tuluk.

In the south, I'm as racist as I want to be. (which is a lot)

Uh huh. This is how I rolls and is why I can't play in Tuluk.

Fuck 'em elves.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm pretty much totally okay with that. As long as he's actually friends with the half-elf, and not just some random bystander.

So that dirty halfbreed's human buddy shanking you to the great mantis head in the sky because you said something nasty to said shitblood is a-okay?

Yep. I've seen people kill others for less. It's a harsh world. As long as there was motivation... why does it matter what race a person is? IC is IC. It may be a very severe reaction, but well... Welcome to Armageddon.

The point is that racism seems to be underrepresented because EVERYONE is best friends with that breed.

Just because that breed's your bro doesn't mean he's not dirty half-necker scum.

Shrug. Never seen that in-game.

[Evil]

I remember one of my first elves got there asses kicked by the Byn for well being a elf. It was good times and there needs to be more of it. I think there should be more in your face I dislike you and want to slit your throat and throw the body in the rinth or sneaky racism as in up north where feelings aren't worn on your sleeves.

[Fredd]

So. Here's a fun one.

It's in documentation that certain races (i.e. elves, humans) are racists. Very. Racist. Humans hate the crap out of elves, elves hate the crap out of humans.

I have yet to see a good example of this in the game world. Ever.

Why? Why are people so afraid to play racists? This isn't America, this isn't hugandkissthas. This is Zalanthas. Yet all I've seen are people sucking up to elves, elves sucking up to people, people in general sucking up to other races and kissing ass and really making it hard to get properly immersed.

Racism is bad IRL, I get it. Unfortunately, in Zalanthas, it's not bad, and you should start playing racists and stop playing carebears.

Yes, this is a dig. Yes, I'm very annoyed. So, here's the discussion part:

How many people play racists here, and how do you do it? Are you in your face "you suck you stupid necker" racists? Or do you just say "Yeah, I don't deal with your kind" or are you more of point and snicker type?

In the north north it's more of a in private thing.
In the south it's a straight up "screw you necker" thing

[askaran]

Best racism moment ever.. First half-elf. First day in the Byn.. Getting slammed into the wall and tossed into the latrine.. Became routine. Love it.

[Barzalene]

My favorite racist moment(s) was a Arm Sergeant who, upon finding the bar full, would just demand that some undesirable give up their seat.

[MeTekillot]

You don't even need to be an Arm Sarge for that, Barz. Just make sure your wear list is longer than that breed's. Everybody knows the length of wear-list directly correlates to level of badass-ness.

[Barzalene]

Yes. He's just the first person I saw do it.

[musashi]

You don't even need to be an Arm Sarge for that, Barz. Just make sure your wear list is longer than that breed's. Everybody knows the length of wear-list directly correlates to level of badass-ness.

And then the breed removes his gloves and has 10 rings on and you're like ... awwww shit.

[Zoan]

My favorite racist moment(s) was a Arm Sergeant who, upon finding the bar full, would just demand that some undesirable give up their seat.

That might have been me. Except most times I'd just make them move even if the bar wasn't full. Just to be a petty dickweed.

"You're on my stool, neck."
"Plenty of other stools, soldier."
"Then fuckin' sit on one of 'em."

[brytta.leofa]

I once--cheerfully!--asked an elf to give up his seat at the bar for my militia private.  He did so.  Then me an' my buddy decided to sit at a table instead.

[Mazy]

Unfortunately, I've never taken the breed's spot at the bar or moved the elf. I have tried to be racist before, honestly, with some success and failure.

From a very kind character's perspective, I see can still see racism like this: "I hate it for the breed, but I'm not going to put my neck out there and stand up for him, because then I would be ridiculed."

A sympathetic Zalanthian character is a conundrum, I know, but humor me. Even though a character might not overly racist, they pressured into the social norms and choose to ignore/hurt while around a crowd to protect their social standing.

[X-D]

I love playing the better then you racist.

The one that has no need to be violent or even all that mean. More like playing a noble but with race. I am human/elf/dwarf You are not...

My last one was an elf, he treated all non-elves more like you would treat a pet, A clumsy and stupid pet.

Oh, don't worry about Amos, he cannot help it, being human and all. We will train him, it will just take a while.

Of course then you have breeds, far below the other races, something showing that somebody bred with an animal.
Eeeeww....
Still, with this style they tend to be more treated as "unclean" types and you ignore they exist.

[Tarx]

Good point, X-D.  Your character might be considered a linguist, but maybe he or she thinks "no, I'm a dog whisperer.  How else would I communicate with these creatures and be sure they understood me?" 

There are extremes you can go to in terms of prejudice and racism in-game.  With enough political power, clout, ballsiness, stupidity, or a proper mix of the above, you can actually say and do things that would get other people killed if they had done them.  You never know if what you do or say is going to be the straw that broke the gwoshi's back until after the fact.  Despite racism, people of different racial origins make alliances and agreements of convenience anyway.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that.