Idea: Compare

[aphex]

It seems kind of silly to me that my character can't tell the difference between a 3 stone and a 10 stone item reliably. It'd be really nice if one could compare items to see if they were of similar weight or not.

If there's a concern regarding powergaming to find the exact weights of items using compare, then add a margin of tolerance, e.g. 2-3 stones difference appears as "nearly the same weight."

Maybe something for Arm 2, who knows. Or just wishful thinking, wondering if this shield is really 100 lbs or 20 lbs.

[Synthesis]

Another idea that's been around forever.

November 10, 2002

August 29, 2003

February 26, 2004

October 13, 2007

April 6, 2008

May 12, 2009

[Sephiroto]

Find a merchant.  Say: "Hey, can you tell me which one is heavier?"  Offer coins.  Get an answer.  Don't like it?  Pay to have a 2nd opinion.

[NOFUN]

Find a merchant

Good luck with that.

[aphex]

"I'm sorry, but I am too retarded to know if this ginka fruit weighs less than this piece of silt horror plate. Can you possibly help me, I will pay you good coin."

"I'm really not sure if anyone can help you. Goodbye."

[aphex]

It would make sense to me that a merchant would be able to compare the quality, materials, of 2 constructed items, and that someone else may not be able to. However, it's pretty patently ridiculous to think that only a specialist could compare objects in terms of a general weight.

[Sephiroto]

Play with the "stat" command then.

[Marc]

Bags help too:  "Why sir, I know this bag carries fifteen stone and your helm wont fit.  It's gonna be weighting twenty stone at least."

There are NPC's that will weight shit for money.  MANY guilds/subguilds get help_skill_value.  Assess -v allows you to roughly see how full containers are.  Stat lets you see your encumbrance weight.  Everytime you "Get" an item it gives you a message regarding weight:  Very light, light, easily manageable etc.  Lot's of ways to extract weight just prep yourself for a guesstimate.  

HINT: it's easier to compare weight if you know what one thing weights.  This can be said for weights and measures too.  If you find you often need to weight shit without the skill, create yourself some stones/items you can use for weight and remember what they weight.  Remember Die Hard 4, the elephant, and the water bottles.

The shifty, cold-eyed man says in sirihish, adding a few smooth stones to a small bag:
          "Les see'ere.  Dah bag'olds a twenty stone.  Yer meat fills most the bag.  Only squeezed'hree stones.  Seventeen stone of meat ya got'ere."

[lordcooper]

Weight != size.

[Thunkkin]

I agree with the OP. Anyone capable of picking up an object should be able to discern if it weighs more or less than another object that they can pick up. A child can tell you this.

Yes, there are workarounds for it. But they're all lame and break immersion.

[Qzzrbl]

The "value" command-- even if you don't have the skill, is great for giving ballpark estimates at how much something weighs.

[Potaje]

Old bags help too:  "Why sir, I know this old bag carries fifteen stone and your helm wont fit.  It's gonna be weighting twenty stone at least."

The shifty, cold-eyed Porn star says in sirihish, adding a few smooth stones to an old bag:
          "Les see'ere.  Dah old bag'olds a twenty stone.  M'meat fills most the old bag.  Only squeezed'hree stones.  Seventeen stone of meat I got'ere."

I apologies up front for my tastelessness.

Value works great and alters its output through a few variables i believe. guild/subguild and perhaps others.
If you have it as a skill they your accuracy would be truer.

[Thunkkin]

There's a difference between trying to quantify an item's weight and comparing the weight of two items. The former should be vague guesswork, the latter is something a child can do.

[Qzzrbl]

There's a difference between trying to quantify an item's weight and comparing the weight of two items. The former should be vague guesswork, the latter is something a child can do.

value rock
>Blahblag, it appears to weigh around 3 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 4 stones

think Hmm....

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 10 stones

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 13 stones

value stone
>blahblah, it appears to weigh around 11 stones

say (looking up at ~amos and ~malik) 'Ey guys.... I think I figured it out!

[Nyr]

There's a difference between trying to quantify an item's weight and comparing the weight of two items. The former should be vague guesswork, the latter is something a child can do.

value rock
>Blahblag, it appears to weigh around 3 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 4 stones

think Hmm....

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 10 stones

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 13 stones

value stone
>blahblah, it appears to weigh around 11 stones

say (looking up at ~amos and ~malik) 'Ey guys.... I think I figured it out!

You know, you're right.

[Thunkkin]

Except when you value something, your result "sticks" for a period of time. You don't get a string of variations in my experience.

[Nyr]

Actually, I'll be more specific, because Thunkkin is correct in that statement.  The premise in the OP and OP's reply won't occur in-game.  You can tell the difference between a 3 stone item and a 10 stone item even with no value skill.

Let's try a ginka fruit and a silt horror-shell plate with an staff member that doesn't have the skill "value."  (Me, in this case, for testing.)

Code Select Expand

A blood-red ginka fruit would seem to cost about 51 obsidian pieces.
A blood-red ginka fruit would seem to weigh 1 stone.

A silt horror-shell plate would seem to cost about 413 obsidian pieces.
A silt horror-shell plate would seem to weigh 24 stones.

Ok, I switched into an NPC that has no "value" skill.

Code Select Expand

A blood-red ginka fruit would seem to cost about 81 obsidian pieces.
A blood-red ginka fruit would seem to weigh 1 stone.

A silt horror-shell plate would seem to cost about 199 obsidian pieces.
A silt horror-shell plate would seem to weigh 31 stones.


I wasn't correct, nor was the NPC.  However, we could tell the difference in weight readily.  The noticeably bigger item weighed more than the noticeably smaller one, both times.

For the sake of testing, I've made some random items weigh 3 stones and 10 stones.  Now you know and I know that these items are exactly 3 stones and 10 stones in weight, respectively.

Code Select Expand

A small, brown rock would seem to cost about 1 obsidian piece
A small, brown rock would seem to weigh 4 stones.

An oddly-shaped rock would seem to cost about 9 obsidian pieces.
An oddly-shaped rock would seem to weigh 11 stones.

I pull in the NPC.

Code Select Expand


A small, brown rock would seem to cost about 1 obsidian piece
A small, brown rock would seem to weigh 2 stones.

An oddly-shaped rock would seem to cost about 10 obsidian pieces.
An oddly-shaped rock would seem to weigh 12 stones.

For grins, I made two items within 1 stone of each other (the same above two items).  The small rock is 10 stones, and the odd rock is 11 stones.

Code Select Expand

A small, brown rock would seem to cost about 1 obsidian piece
A small, brown rock would seem to weigh 7 stones.

An oddly-shaped rock would seem to cost about 6 obsidian pieces.
An oddly-shaped rock would seem to weigh 14 stones.

I gave it to the NPC.

Code Select Expand

A small, brown rock would seem to cost about 1 obsidian piece
A small, brown rock would seem to weigh 9 stones.

An oddly-shaped rock would seem to cost about 9 obsidian pieces.
An oddly-shaped rock would seem to weigh 12 stones.

Based on my relatively small sample size, I can't say whether this is always the case every time.  However, it seems like it's possible to tell the difference in weight between two dissimilar items, even if you have a low value skill or NO value skill.  The closer the two items are in weight, the more likely it would be that you could value the lower one as weighing more than the higher one.  The more the two items weigh, the more likely it would be that you get the weight entirely wrong and overshoot or undershoot both items by a wider margin.

[Thunkkin]

Fair enough!

I still think a compare command makes sense, but ya know, I probably wouldn't ask for it to be a priority. Thanks for the explanation, Nyr!

[Qzzrbl]

There's a difference between trying to quantify an item's weight and comparing the weight of two items. The former should be vague guesswork, the latter is something a child can do.

value rock
>Blahblag, it appears to weigh around 3 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 5 stones

value rock
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 4 stones

think Hmm....

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 10 stones

value stone
>Blahblah, it appears to weigh around 13 stones

value stone
>blahblah, it appears to weigh around 11 stones

say (looking up at ~amos and ~malik) 'Ey guys.... I think I figured it out!

You know, you're right.

I wish I were pretentious enough to sig this.

[Synthesis]

Ever since the 'value' command was changed to generate random results in closer proximity to actual weights/values, it seems like you can't use multiple 'value' outputs based on the same object to estimate the object's true weight/value.

Previously, you could value the same object numerous times, and the values would be widely divergent, but you would get a different value every time, which presumably would allow you to estimate a true value, assuming that results go both above and below the actual value, which may not be true for items with small weights or values, since as far as I know, returns in negative values never actually occur...which would tend to consistently skew the mean above the true value.  Now, it seems like the value output for an object is temporarily locked.  You can value 10 different feathers of the same type and get different results, but if you only have 1 feather and value it 10 times, every result returned will be the same.

This is also pretty frustrating with respect to bags, since you can 'value' a full bag, then empty it, and it will return the "fully loaded" weight for a while...if I were to guess, I'd say it's probably a temporary list that's kept on your pfile until you log out or something.

At any rate, since the change, value is much more convenient and semi-useful for the skillless, if overall somewhat less useful for those willing to go through the trouble to do some basic statistical analysis...although presumably you can still do it, provided you have enough of the item in question.

[hyzhenhok]

Ever since the 'value' command was changed to generate random results in closer proximity to actual weights/values, it seems like you can't use multiple 'value' outputs based on the same object to estimate the object's true weight/value.

Previously, you could value the same object numerous times, and the values would be widely divergent, but you would get a different value every time, which presumably would allow you to estimate a true value, assuming that results go both above and below the actual value, which may not be true for items with small weights or values, since as far as I know, returns in negative values never actually occur...which would tend to consistently skew the mean above the true value.  Now, it seems like the value output for an object is temporarily locked.  You can value 10 different feathers of the same type and get different results, but if you only have 1 feather and value it 10 times, every result returned will be the same.

This is also pretty frustrating with respect to bags, since you can 'value' a full bag, then empty it, and it will return the "fully loaded" weight for a while...if I were to guess, I'd say it's probably a temporary list that's kept on your pfile until you log out or something.

At any rate, since the change, value is much more convenient and semi-useful for the skillless, if overall somewhat less useful for those willing to go through the trouble to do some basic statistical analysis...although presumably you can still do it, provided you have enough of the item in question.

But I think the point was even by going by only the first result you get, looking at Nyr's (admittedly small) sample size, you'll still have a good chance of telling the difference between two items' weight unless they are very similar.

[Synthesis]

I know that was his point.  I was making a new one.  Does everything have to be a refutation?