Homosexuality

[Is Friday]

So long as I can pull guard I'll be okay.

[Mooney]

Now I'm pondering how this open acceptance of homosexuality affects the 'alignment' of the people. I know at the end of the day, homosexuality is not a choice, but is it safe to assume that with the lack of stigma and oppression, more people are open to being 'bi' or the suggestion of a homosexual interaction?

Imagine I play a dude who's a womanizer and hearty about sex as most armageddons seem to be. If a guy walks up and says "Let's bang", assuming there's nothing repugnant about him, should my dude be all "sure" even if he's never been with a man before? Would he be alright with it so long as he's pitching?

Actually I think my question's blurring the lines of whether homo-interaction is a choice and whether promiscuity is a choice. Maybe. It's late.

[bcw81]

Now I'm pondering how this open acceptance of homosexuality affects the 'alignment' of the people. I know at the end of the day, homosexuality is not a choice, but is it safe to assume that with the lack of stigma and oppression, more people are open to being 'bi' or the suggestion of a homosexual interaction?

Imagine I play a dude who's a womanizer and hearty about sex as most armageddons seem to be. If a guy walks up and says "Let's bang", assuming there's nothing repugnant about him, should my dude be all "sure" even if he's never been with a man before? Would he be alright with it so long as he's pitching?

Actually I think my question's blurring the lines of whether homo-interaction is a choice and whether promiscuity is a choice. Maybe. It's late.

The answer is to tell the person to stuff their shirt with kalans.

[Whiran Luck]

Mooney: It all depends on your character and any strictures and limitations placed on the role by tribe, or clan even, or social pressure. Characters themselves may be heterosexual, homosexual or any shade in between. Because homosexuality in and of itself has no social stigma in a wide array of cultures (some tribes may have certain stigmas against purely homosexual -relationships- (not encounters) since they would not bear any children if they refuse to have any heterosexual relationships) by and large, a heterosexual male would likely not feel offended if a homosexual man made an advance on him (assuming nothing else would cause the reaction), though no repugnance or acceptance of homosexuality does not necessarily mean they would actually be interested in pursuing a sexual encounter with the other male in question. It would likely be similar to if a woman he didn't find remotely attractive hit on him. He likely just wouldn't be interested. That goes for homosexuals as well-- if advances were made on them by the opposite sex, they probably would not accept because they just wouldn't be interested.

As far as promiscuity, there is no general stigma about sex itself, however again, it depends on an individual character. Some characters will screw anything. Some will be very selective and picky. Some may have fetishes which prevent them from being little more than asexual until the conditions of the fetish are met. Some are monogamous, some are polygamous and some are completely celibate. Some people may look down on sex, and some people may look down on certain types of sex, and well... you get the point. Promiscuity is a choice, and really does have hazards IG (though it doesn't seem to stop most people!) Sexuality is not necessarily a choice at the extreme ends, but I am sure no one on Zalanthas actually cares whether Bob who lives in the squalid apartment next door likes boys, or Lord Fancypants Fale has enormous orgies with blow-up kanks involved.

I suppose the tl;dr is: No. While your character would likely not be offended or repulsed, and may enjoy heterosexual (or homosexual) sex exclusively, it does not necessarily mean they would take anyone who offered to give it up-- unless it was the character WOULD want.

[lordcooper]

Now I'm pondering how this open acceptance of homosexuality affects the 'alignment' of the people. I know at the end of the day, homosexuality is not a choice, but is it safe to assume that with the lack of stigma and oppression, more people are open to being 'bi' or the suggestion of a homosexual interaction?

I'm not too sure about sexuality not being a choice.  I was exclusively hetero in both action and viewpoint until I woke up and thought "Why not?" one day.  I just didn't see the point in limiting my chances of finding love or sexual pleasure.  It took a while, but I'm now attracted to people of any gender without bias.

I'm pretty sure that if I had grown up somewhere where homosexuality was heavily frowned upon or punished then the idea of experimenting would never have occurred to me in the first place.  Taking that into account, I'm pretty sure that places that accept homosexuality are likely to have more.  Look at Brighton for instance, I've known straight chicks to move away from there because it's so hard to find a straight guy.

[BleakOne]

I don't think it's a choice, as such, mainly because there's some types of attraction (generally to squicky stuff I don't want to mention) which I could never see someone actively choosing if they could simply be more 'mundane' in their choices and be attracted to men and/or women.

[Case]

Now I'm pondering how this open acceptance of homosexuality affects the 'alignment' of the people. I know at the end of the day, homosexuality is not a choice, but is it safe to assume that with the lack of stigma and oppression, more people are open to being 'bi' or the suggestion of a homosexual interaction?

I'm not too sure about sexuality not being a choice.  I was exclusively hetero in both action and viewpoint until I woke up and thought "Why not?" one day.  I just didn't see the point in limiting my chances of finding love or sexual pleasure.  It took a while, but I'm now attracted to people of any gender without bias.

I'm pretty sure that if I had grown up somewhere where homosexuality was heavily frowned upon or punished then the idea of experimenting would never have occurred to me in the first place.  Taking that into account, I'm pretty sure that places that accept homosexuality are likely to have more.  Look at Brighton for instance, I've known straight chicks to move away from there because it's so hard to find a straight guy.

So if you hadn't woken up and realised you're open to either sex, it wouldn't be a choice? So it wasn't a choice up until the point you realised? The attraction is built in. You can't force it.

I thought I was heterosexual for much of my life too. Was a homophobe at one point even. I didn't choose to change (although I did choose to be a homophobe).

[lordcooper]

So if you hadn't woken up and realised you're open to either sex, it wouldn't be a choice? So it wasn't a choice up until the point you realised?

Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you actually mean by that.  Could you maybe rephrase it for me?

[Case]

So if you hadn't woken up and realised you're open to either sex, it wouldn't be a choice? So it wasn't a choice up until the point you realised?

Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you actually mean by that.  Could you maybe rephrase it for me?

I'm saying you had no real logical test in saying it's not a choice. For x years of your life, you were heterosexual. One day, you realised you are open to bisexuality. Were you choosing to be heterosexual prior to this realisation?

Or you could just try and choose not to be bisexual and see if it changes anything

[valeria]

For many people, it isn't a choice.  I didn't choose to be bisexual.  I wasn't open to it.  In fact, for a long time I thought it was something very shameful, because of my mother's views on homosexuality.  Even though for a large part of my life I was far, far more attracted to women (though maybe that had something to do with girls turning into young women well before boys turn into young men, who knows).  For a while I desperately tried not to be attracted to who I'm attracted to.  It was an interesting denial game that really didn't work.  So I think that if there was less stigmatization against being bisexual, more people would probably be willing to identify with bisexuality, but I don't see how that answers your other question.

I tend to work my character's sexuality into their background.  Not just which genders they are attracted to, but what types of people, is it same or different among the genders if they're bisexual, how much is sex a part of their motivation in life, etc.  So if this happens...

Imagine I play a dude who's a womanizer and hearty about sex as most armageddons seem to be. If a guy walks up and says "Let's bang", assuming there's nothing repugnant about him, should my dude be all "sure" even if he's never been with a man before? Would he be alright with it so long as he's pitching?

If your dude is a womanizer and an attractive man walks up and says 'let's bang,' I think the more pertinent question would be why hasn't this ever happened to your character before?

[lordcooper]

I'm saying you had no real logical test in saying it's not a choice. For x years of your life, you were heterosexual. One day, you realised you are open to bisexuality. Were you choosing to be heterosexual prior to this realisation?

Or you could just try and choose not to be bisexual and see if it changes anything

I'm not saying it's not a choice, I'm specifically saying it is.  I chose (un/subconsciously) to be heterosexual at a young age, due to that generally being considered the norm.  One day I realized that I considered it a little silly (in my case, I'm judging anyone else on their sexuality) to limit myself to one gender and made a conscious decision to fuck a guy, to put it bluntly.  I was a little grossed out by the experience, but found myself physically attracted to men afterwards and managed to get rid of my hangups after a while.  I guess that means it is possible to choose for yourself.  It's purely anecdotal evidence though.

Taking Valeria's post into consideration, I'm not sure if the two outlooks can mesh at all.  Perhaps it's the personal qualities and views of the individual which decide if they can make the choice consciously?  I have a great difficulty in believing there's a 'gay gene' of some sort or an angel with a clipboard handing out sexual preferences before birth.

[Kalai]

I would very much not be surprised if it's more of a choice for some people than others. My parents seem fairly certain it can be a choice, particularly for those who don't identify strongly with genders in the first place; while in other cases it definitely isn't a choice. As a bisexual who decided that was her state in an extremely tolerant environment, I'm not sure I have any clue. 

[Case]

Was a typo, but yeah. I don't think you understand what I'm getting at but you've given me the easiest counterargument ever so:

If you subconsciously chose heterosexuality but later chose homosexuality/bisexuality, is it impossible to be born subconsciously homosexual/bisexual (and possibly also choose to be heterosexual)?

If not, sexuality is a choice. If it is, homosexuality/bisexuality is a choice.

If sexuality is a choice following your logic - how would it be distinguished from being not a choice/innate?

Prove it by making yourself heterosexual (losing all homosexual attraction) by choice.

If sexuality is a choice, you will quickly find that it logically matches not being a choice unless you can prove the above.

[Kalai]

That seems like it would be a bit of an extreme thing to do to bolster one's side of an argument.

[Case]

That seems like it would be a bit of an extreme thing to do to bolster one's side of an argument.

If it's a choice, he can change back after, it's all good.

[Kalai]

That seems like it would be a bit of an extreme thing to do to bolster one's side of an argument.

If it's a choice, he can change back after, it's all good.

It took him a while in the first place, though. No point risking current relationships and all...?

If simply switching back and forth is a measure, I'll tell you now that my sexuality switches fairly often, to the point I've thought I was lesbian then gotten confused by why I felt straight for a month later. Being bi is either a decision I made for the sake of stabilizing myself or simply a measure of my leanings over time, since they even out somewhat around there. I'm not honestly sure how this would make it more of a choice or not.

[valeria]

For many people, it isn't a choice.

For emphasis.  No one is saying that you didn't have the experience you said you had in choosing to be more sexually open, but that isn't how sexuality works for a lot of people.

Personally I think it's a lot easier for someone who is mildly or moderately bisexual to not even realize they're bisexual until they consciously choose to engage in some exploration.

I have a great difficulty in believing there's a 'gay gene' of some sort or an angel with a clipboard handing out sexual preferences before birth.

That argument is oversimplified.  Genetics are believed to play one of several factors.  But there is a lot more research that points out that biology plays a strong role.  Genes are some of the building blocks that wire up your biochemistry.

Anyway, this has kind of wandered off topic.  My point is, in a world where homosexuality is not stigmatized, your character has probably been approached by both sexes.  Part of your character's background might be figuring out how they might react and why.

[a strange shadow]

I'm firmly convinced that sexuality is innate, but the choice to express it or repress it is up to the individual.

I've thought girls were pretty ever since I was a little girl. I've always liked boys, too, and tend to have an easier time relating to guys... but girls are just prettier.

That doesn't mean that I'm often attracted to women for long-term relationships. Sorry, but the majority of them are completely insane.

(Disclaimer: Armageddon chicks, as a general rule, are remarkably intelligent and sexy in comparison to the general populace. Furthermore, I make no claims to perfect sanity myself.)

Edit: OT; in a world where homosexuality is normal, I agree with Valeria.

It happens, you're used to it. If you're uncomfortable at public affection, it's because two people are kissing, not because it's two boys kissing.

[mansa]

In my opinion,

Regarding sexual preferences, and even sexes in general,

ArmageddonMUD is designed so that you can play any role you want to, and not have to worry about stigma that real life has.

It's designed so that if someone happens to be female in real life, they can actually roleplay a female and not have to worry about sexism that actually occurs in real life.  ArmageddonMUD becomes an escapism game.  It's the same with sexual preference.  You don't need to justify anything, or think about it further.  It just doesn't happen.


That's why there is -no rape- roleplay in ArmageddonMUD.  You remove any reference of real-life situations where some people might have some awful experience, and you remove it from the game.  This is a game, afterall.


It's a simple way to create a safe environment to play the game in, alongside with all the backstabbing, killing, murdering, politicking, and sex.

[Saellyn]

In my opinion,

Regarding sexual preferences, and even sexes in general,

ArmageddonMUD is designed so that you can play any role you want to, and not have to worry about stigma that real life has.

It's designed so that if someone happens to be female in real life, they can actually roleplay a female and not have to worry about sexism that actually occurs in real life.  ArmageddonMUD becomes an escapism game.  It's the same with sexual preference.  You don't need to justify anything, or think about it further.  It just doesn't happen.


That's why there is -no rape- roleplay in ArmageddonMUD.  You remove any reference of real-life situations where some people might have some awful experience, and you remove it from the game.  This is a game, afterall.


It's a simple way to create a safe environment to play the game in, alongside with all the backstabbing, killing, murdering, politicking, and sex.

Sorry to burst your bubble, there is rape RP in Arm.

[Feco]

In my opinion,

Regarding sexual preferences, and even sexes in general,

ArmageddonMUD is designed so that you can play any role you want to, and not have to worry about stigma that real life has.

It's designed so that if someone happens to be female in real life, they can actually roleplay a female and not have to worry about sexism that actually occurs in real life.  ArmageddonMUD becomes an escapism game.  It's the same with sexual preference.  You don't need to justify anything, or think about it further.  It just doesn't happen.


That's why there is -no rape- roleplay in ArmageddonMUD.  You remove any reference of real-life situations where some people might have some awful experience, and you remove it from the game.  This is a game, afterall.


It's a simple way to create a safe environment to play the game in, alongside with all the backstabbing, killing, murdering, politicking, and sex.

Sorry to burst your bubble, there is rape RP in Arm.

As far as I know it's a situation that can be completely avoided.  You don't have to just fade if you don't consent to the role-playing; you can refuse it actually happening and produce an alternative scenario.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kalai]

Rape RP in Arm requires consent, but does exist. You folk are right on that.

[Saellyn]

For debilitating torture scenes where stuff can happen, you can say it doesn't happen.

If someone were to OOC asking me to do an alternate scene for a rape scenario, I'd have to look at my char and what else he/she might do before I agreed or disagreed.

This discussion should move, however, and really doesn't deserve another thread. So!

Homosexuality. A homosexual raptor and a homosexual gurth walk into a bar...

[Ocotillo]

or was it the gurth-braided and raptor-tattooed men

[Booya]

For debilitating torture scenes where stuff can happen, you can say it doesn't happen.

If someone were to OOC asking me to do an alternate scene for a rape scenario, I'd have to look at my char and what else he/she might do before I agreed or disagreed.

This discussion should move, however, and really doesn't deserve another thread. So!

I think it's probably very important to clarify for those in any doubt - that if you don't consent to your character being raped, even FTB'd, it doesn't then happen IG in any form. The player of the would-be rapist -has- to change their plan.

Full stop.

(There are probably plenty of threads about it.)